Shepard Can Lose in Mass Effect 3

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Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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You mean kinda like how you could "die" in ME2? Which requires a greater amount of effort to screw up on purpose than the effort needed to get the "everyone lives" ending. Seriously, knowing Bioware there will be one ending where shit hits the fan, but it'll require deliberate failing or spectacular incompetence on the part of the player. Anyone with a functioning brain and basic motor skills will get at least the "shitty" good ending...
 

Polite Sage

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Feb 22, 2011
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1000? says you automatically receive the best/happiest/golden/true ending by always picking the Paragon option.
 

kouriichi

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Sep 5, 2010
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I dont wanna fail.
But im glad theyre putting in the possibility of it.
Not every story can end happily! And it can make the story better fi it doesnt.
 

dimensional

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Jun 13, 2011
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Shepard can lose? that makes it sound like its actually damn hard to do so (as others have said much like the shepard dies ending of 2) so I guess the reapers were not much of a threat after all if all I have to do to win is not play the game like a complete tool.
As for origin well I kind of expect this thing from EA by now.
 

Comieman

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Jul 25, 2010
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ohmygosh ohmygosh ohmygosh ohmygosh ohmygosh ohmygosh ohmygosh ohmygosh
I really liked how in MA2 Sheppard could die, and if there will be a way to win by "losing" in MA3...that is going to make me happy.
Yeah, I love games where main character dies / loses, instead of "One man vs the universe" (glares at Master Chief)
 

Bobbity

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Mar 17, 2010
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Off topic: If EA makes this game Origin exclusive, then I really don't fancy its chances.

On topic: It doesn't fucking matter. It's incredibly obvious that the results of the final battle will be bad if someone intentionally fucks everything up. Like Mass Effect 2, it's going to be mind numbingly easy to avoid this, because Bioware - as much as I love them - seems to, most recenty, at least, fucking suck at this sort of thing.

Remember, for a moment, Heavy Rain. In order to save your son, you had to go through five challenges; things like cutting off your own finger, or murdering a stranger you knew nothing about, for no other reason than to save your son. You had to do at least three of these challenges to even have a hope of saving your son, and all five to make it a sure thing. Even then, you still weren't guarunteed a happy ending, depending on what the other characters had achieved, as well.

Each of the challenges you had to complete was challenging in it's own right, and it came down to some seriously hard decisions about what you were willing to do to get a happy ending. This is the sort of thing that Bioware should be striving for.

Instead, what we're going to see are more diametrically opposed choices that really won't matter because the results will be the same. Not a single decision that we made in the last two games will have any *real* effect - ie more than a cameo - on the outcome.

Getting off topic again, but they even fucked up their attempt to make their black and white morality system not so black and white. The Paragon was supposed to be an idealist; someone who would not sacrifice their principles, while the Renegade was supposed to be someone to whom the ends justified the means. Instead, we get a naive, head in the clouds, light side of the force, way of the open palm nice guy, and a jerk who punches reporters in the head. Really off topic now, but that SHOULD NOT HAVE FUCKING GIVEN RENEGADE POINTS.

The EC crew made an interesting observation a while ago. During - spoiler alert - Legion's loyalty mission, you are given the choice of brainwashing or destroying the Geth. Instead of considering the ramifications of brainwashing an entire species to die for you, as opposed to removing the threat entirely - Bioware opted for the simplistic approach. Good guy saves them, bad guy kills them. The EC guys pointed out that both decisions might have resulted in Renegade points, but Bioware didn't consider that. Even more irritating, they didn't consider that by their own definitions, the point results should have been swapped. The ruthless Renegade would have brainwashed his enemies to fight for him, while the Paragon would have either killed them (a difficult decision that should possibly have given Renegade points anyway) or - being idealistic - left and decided to wait to face them in open combat.

But the real problem is that none of what I just ranted about will FUCKING MATTER, because Bioware seems to have mastered the art of giving us the illusion of choice. This won't - mark my words - boil down to anything more than a cameo, because choices aren't what matter in Mass Effect - it's the illusion of choice that counts.

And that, my good fellows, ties back into the very first point that I made. There's no *real* risk of losing, because, mark my words, it's going to be the threat that's important - the illusion of real danger is but one aspect of that. Besides, Bioware hates making players face consequences for their actions - we all know that.

Argh, damn you TOR, for stealing all of Bioware's *actual* talent.

/edit
Wow, that came out rantier than I meant it to be.
TL;DR: We can lose? Well, congratulations, Bioware, for adding to the facade of choice in this game. You know full fucking well that there's no *actual* risk of someone unintentionally losing, and so do we, so why even pretend? In fact, why the FUCK DO YOU - crap, I'm doing it again. I love Bioware, and I adored ME1, and liked ME2, so I get the treensiest bit annoyed whenever I think of how much better this series could be, or of the bleedingly obvious things that it's doing wrong. For as much as I loved it, ME2 was railroaded. Even ME1 was, to an extent.

Oh, and a note on the point based morality systems; the most powerful choice in the entire series was between Ashley and Kaidan, and that didn't use the morality system at all.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

The Killjoy Detective returns!
Jan 23, 2011
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Generic Gamer said:
OutrageousEmu said:
I'm failing to see how this is news. I've played a lot of games where you can lose. Its called losing. You die and get a game over screen. Most games I play these days have that happen. You then start again from your last save and don't fuck it up.
That isn't what this is, this is when you scrape your way through the game, only to reach an end cutscene that lets you know that your efforts were so puny that the reapers won anyway.

Personally I think that's a brilliant idea, I like the idea that after three games I could fuck the whole thing up and just lose.
This, but with one gripe. You had to actively try to get the bad ending in ME2. If they make it that hard to get in ME3 then I'll be disappointed.
 

Robert Ewing

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Mar 2, 2011
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Its cool that they're putting this into the game. I am happy with this Bioware. Too bad I won't actually play the game. Origin is just... too much.
 

XDravond

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Mar 30, 2011
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Ehm this is going to sound strange-
WOOHOOO I can lose not just die (boring) but really do something reaaaally bad and doom humanity, yey my evil Shepard is so gonna love this...

Now let's talk upgrades ME 1 was a bit to many small boring ones, but ME 2 really needed more guns and upgrades that you can see (not the +10% damage junk), and please, please let me bring all my (living :D) squadmates in to a glorious final battle, just think about it bullets and biotic flying, please...

OnT I'm actually a bit suprised since you have not been able to fail (more than that little death in ME2) it is a nice bit of change, hopefully it won't be a "lose-earth-save-humanity-anyway" thing. For some reason I really want to be able to fail utterly... maybe to get me "fighting" a bit harder..
 

Manji187

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Jan 29, 2009
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I wonder whether it will be an extended "cutscene failure" (like Joker's death) or something more substantial...like playing for several hours in the knowledge that everything is lost and everyone will die....one by one...until Commander Shepard's head contents will be smeared over some fancy metal wall in an ending FMV.

It can never be natural failure though...cuz at some moment the game will yank control away from you to tell you that "Now you've lost and can't continue".

Even if your previous decisions will have contributed to your downfall...if they are anything like the Paragon/ Renegade dialogue options they will be easily side-stepped. In other words...you will most likely only fail if you ACTIVELY CHOOSE TO FAIL.

That would suck because it's not exactly imaginitive.

EDIT: The best failure is failure that comes as a surprise but makes complete sense in the mind of the player. It is also practically impossible to pull off.
 

CalPal

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Apr 25, 2011
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PingoBlack said:
Wait ... exactly the same feature as ME2 had? Only now they expect me to believe that holograms can stab? I'm sorry. I liked Mass Effect when it was still slightly Science Fiction.
Then you'll be happy to know that one of the staff members at Bioware - can't remember if it's Casey Hudson or Preston Watamaniuk - confirmed that the omni-blades are a combination of kinetic barriers and something else. As we speak, I'm trying to find the original source, which was on a twitter post from one of them.
 

PingoBlack

Searching for common sense ...
Aug 6, 2011
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CalPal said:
Then you'll be happy to know that one of the staff members at Bioware - can't remember if it's Casey Hudson or Preston Watamaniuk - confirmed that the omni-blades are a combination of kinetic barriers and something else. As we speak, I'm trying to find the original source, which was on a twitter post from one of them.
Right. Instead of metal or ceramic blade, arm mounted and powered by Eezo motor, they want to sell me solid holograms?

Too bad they threw Drew over to ToR, eh?
 

Kopikatsu

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May 27, 2010
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Caramel Frappe said:
Oh no.. I can see where this is going. I can be a very good Shepard, who acts noble and goes out of my way to help everyone out. Next thing I know, the ending of the game ends up screwing me over spite all the efforts I put into bringing peace. That's not.. cool. It can also be said for people who act tough, or just don't see the bad ending coming.

I am not against people who prefer or like the idea of failing.. but in an RPG game where you're the only fate that not only humanity has, but the whole galaxy has.. there is a quote that defines the main role of Shepard:

Failure is not an option.
Have you never played a tabletop RPG? Not only was failure an option...it was generally probable. Depends on how sadistic your DM was and what game you were playing.

Cheshire the Cat said:
Interested again. Though personally, I would actually prefer a no win scenario. No matter what you do, how hard you fight, who you recruit, all you can do is minimize losses and buy time for a few ships of refugees to escape while the universe burns.
I'm pretty sure that if the Reapers win, there will be no refugees to save.

Tin Man said:
Bobbity said:
Besides, Bioware hates making players face consequences for their actions - we all know that.
It's not just Bioware. It's sad, but these companies see us not as mature people who can handle this kind of thing, even if it goes bad and results in 'losing' the game, but it's shit like this:

OutrageousEmu said:
Most games I play these days have that happen. You then start again from your last save and don't fuck it up.
That stops us having nice things. As long as people can just turn around and instantly undo any 'bad' choice, then devs are not exactly going to be keen to really write in things and code parts of the game, which can and will be ignored by most gamers, because most gamers are weak.

A lot of people won't have played Deus Ex yet, so I don't want to spoil, but early on there is a very real possibilty to fail an innocent woman, resulting in her death. Methinks most players that fail that challenge(like I did), will restart and do it 'right'(Which I didn't. I chose to have both myself and Adam live with that).

And if they made the endgame of ME3/the build up of it, actually challenging in a real way, and thus made failing right at the finish quite a real possibility, then I guarantee that a small number of us would be deeply impressed, but a HUGE number would be seriously put off.
I actually succeeded on my first try...I also won every other argument on the first try. Aside from when you accuse that one guy of murder because I couldn't remember all of the details of the case. I didn't restart when I failed to get the 1000 EXP bonus though.
 

Somethingfake

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Oct 22, 2008
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"In Mass Effect 3, the theme is literally galactic extinction..."

So what were the other two about, returning late tax forms?
 

Cenequus

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Jan 31, 2011
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Revelo said:
Drakulea said:
Too bad because of the Origin factor in the equation.

The Mass Effect trilogy is too good to catch flak from those knuckleheads at EA.
Can someone please tell me what Origin is? Everyone goes on about it but I've not seen anything which explains exactly what it is and what it does. I can only assume it's some kind of DRM.
No it's not it's EA's online shop,like Steam D2D etc. And funny thing is you don't even need Origin to install and play the game. So don't mind the Steam fanboys and enjoy your games.
 

Whateveralot

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Oct 25, 2010
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PingoBlack said:
Wait ... exactly the same feature as ME2 had? Only now they expect me to believe that holograms can stab? I'm sorry. I liked Mass Effect when it was still slightly Science Fiction.

With "visceral" "edgy" "insert bad hype here" stabby holographic UIs they completely lost me on Science part.
When they started outsourcing their design decisions to Facebook votes, then added EA Origin, the case was shut for me.

Sad that all BioWare PR is now handled by EA, people that brought you Dead Space 2 comercial ...
Errr...who started a discussion about the meelee in ME3 here? No-one did. And about Origin? Is it about Origin? No it isn't either. Irrelevant post is irrelevant. Either way, "slightly science fiction" doesn't excist, as much as it's "slightly 2011" this year.

The Omni-blade is as much part of the game as anything else in the Mass Effect universe. There's nothing you should believe. It's all a bit silly. Faster-than-light travel? Really, do you believe science today has proven this is possible? I find the omni-blade more feasable than that to be honest. Still it's about as feasable as a lightsaber, but it doesn't sound as impossible. You just sound allergic to chagne.

Resorting to Facebook was a very smart move. All companies strive for optimal customer satisfaction. The best way to do this is by finding out what customers want. Market research is getting outdated and the new way to go is through social media. It's all done so YOU get what YOU want. They're actually listening to you now; what's so bad about that?
 

Diana Kingston-Gabai

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Aug 3, 2010
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Caramel Frappe said:
Oh no.. I can see where this is going. I can be a very good Shepard, who acts noble and goes out of my way to help everyone out. Next thing I know, the ending of the game ends up screwing me over spite all the efforts I put into bringing peace. That's not.. cool. It can also be said for people who act tough, or just don't see the bad ending coming.
I know what you mean. Last time I played ME2, I did all the loyalty missions, upgraded the ship, learn enough about my teammates to pick the right people for the Collector Base, and the game still ended with Shepard and everyone dead.

Oh wait. That's what happens when you don't go the extra mile. :)
 

PingoBlack

Searching for common sense ...
Aug 6, 2011
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Cenequus said:
And funny thing is you don't even need Origin to install and play the game. So don't mind the Steam fanboys and enjoy your games.
Are you sure about that?
Like Steam, Origin is a DRM system as well, one BF3 will use.

You think ME3 will not?