since when is christmass a religions event?

[Agow95]

It still wouldn't exist if we didn't have Jesus, and it is called CHRIST-mas, normally celebrated by CHRIST-ians, worshippers of Jesus CHRIST, but apart from that, I agree with what your saying, that it has evolved past the point of being about Jesus, It has that significance if you are Christian, but nearly everyone else can still celebrate it without feeling like it's a religious thing

 

[Something Amyss]

I never made any claim it was ok for any group to steal others holidays.

But you said it was right for Christians to be offended that their holiday was co-opted, though they co-opted it themselves. How are you not applying a different standard to them?

 

[renegade7]

Christmas as we know it today has basically been really commercialized, mostly by Macy's. But the traditions of gift giving and putting up a tree and such were originally Pagan traditions that the Romans stole to make Christianity more appealing (same with Easter and Halloween). Christmas wasn't celebrated until well after Jesus died and the Romans began following Christianity, by the way.

 

[Dwarfman]

alright this is somthing that bugs me,

aparently...if your not christian...you dont celebrate christmas? is this an american beliife or somthing?

anyway let me exaplain

now I dont actually know if chrstmases origins were christian Im a VERY sure it actually wansnt, I know baby jesus didnt have his birthday on the 25th of decenmber..and I think christians "stole" the date to compete with another festival

but that aside....

as far as Im concerned christmas thease days generally has nothing to do with religion..no really, my family is not religous....most of Australia is not religous and we (and I imagine alot of Australia) celebrate christmas.....(aside from going to mass of coase)

you know what christmas is? its a comercial holiday, its the itme of year when kids get presesnts, and its the itme of yeah adults stress out, put up with family or eat/drink themelfs into oblvion (or all three)

last time I checked jesus hardly had anything to do with it aside from the nativity plays we somtimes has...thats it, mostly it was about santa

I am a Christian. I do not celebrate christmas. And I do not celebrate it for pretty much every reason you have stated.

Ofcourse trying to get other people to see my pint gets somewhat frustrating around this time of year, so it's nice to see someone who's kindof on the same page.

 

[Terminate421]

We christians are supposed to celebrate the birthday of Jesus. We do, but we also do the very fun commercialized giving gifts and such.

Recently it has become a holiday where people throw down their differences and celebrate with their fellow man, therefore making it the best Holiday in the year.

 

[rob_simple]

Does everything have to be an argument now?

If Christians telling you you shouldn't be celebrating Christmas bothers you then why not be the bigger man/woman and turn the other cheek?

I mean, unless they are forcibly preventing you from celebrating it by breaking into your house and taking the tree. Then I suppose I'd be pissed.

Otherwise, in the spirit of the season, I say we all just live and let live.

P.S. I loved your revelation about Christmas being overly commercial, OP. Does M. Nigh Shyamalan help write your posts?

 

[Vykrel]

Yes, Christmas is in fact a Christian holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

Ever wondered why it's called "Christmas"?

Giving presents to each other is just something that has developed over time.

actually, it was originally a Pagan holiday until Christians adopted it (or stole it, depending on your point of view) for themselves, sort of like how the Greeks adopted (or stole) the Roman's gods and gave them new names.

also, Jesus was not born on Dec.25 (if he ever existed at all). there is no exact date that is tied to Jesus' birth.


either way, there is pretty much nothing Christian about Christmas. the whole point of the holiday is to bring people together, and to give and recieve gifts.

Christmas is no more Christian a holiday than Halloween.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Well, Christmas as a give a present to someone day is entirely comercial.

But christmas as a celebration of of Jesus as a figure of christianity has been going since the 4th century.
And yes, lately only the hardcore christians remember the meaning of christmas in a truly pure way.

This.
Basically the modern practices have their roots in the time when Christians decided to start usurping pagan holidays.
Now, if you're not a Christian, then that doesn't mean you can't give gifts or whatnot. Christmas has become less and less Christian as time goes on.

Not to say that it was ever an exclusive practice.

 

[Lyri]

But you said it was right for Christians to be offended that their holiday was co-opted, though they co-opted it themselves. How are you not applying a different standard to them?

In what way was it co-opted?
Gift giving has been associated with the birth of Christ since it's inception, even children know this thanks to nativity plays.

Christians did not adopt it or steal it, common misconception. The date was stolen, not the idea of giving gifts.
When Christianity was brought across to the west reformation was removing the other religions and converting or killing none believers, nothing was stolen just jumbled around.

Now it's been moved from the Solstice and is placed in December.

 

[oktalist]

Well you could argue that the commercialised version of Christmas, the giving of presents, the drinking of booze... is itself a religion.
*looks smug*

Also the abbreviation "Xmas" has been around since the 18th century, derived from "X'temmas" from the 16th century. The title "Christ" has been abbreviated to "Xp" or "Xt" in religious texts since the 11th century. It derives from the fact that the first letter of the Greek word for "Christ" looks like an X. The misconception that it is part of the commercialisation and secularisation of Christmas seems to have arisen because "Xmas" was used in lots of advertisements, due to its shortness.

 

[Something Amyss]

Christians did not adopt it or steal it, common misconception. The date was stolen, not the idea of giving gifts.

Giving gifts isn't the issue here. I'm sorry you inferred that. The date, many of the traditions, and the base concept all come from prior celebrations they co-opted. It's not JUST the date, no.

So your excusing one and not the other appears to come from your own lack of knowledge. Okay, I guess I can understand that. Least you're not being actively hypocritical.

 

[dorkette1990]

Well, in order to shuffle out the pagans, they had to mostly replace their holidays. Instead of a harvest festival, Halloween! Instead of fertility, Easter! Most things became about Christianity when the Christians declared themselves rules of religion (that was mostly supposed to be humorous).

Also, OP, you're so negative about the holidays! I've always seen Christmas as a perfect opportunity to spend time with people I love, buy them thoughtful things (because although it's a commercial holiday, our society as a whole like material things with thought behind them), and it gives me a chance to test-drive holiday recipes on family.
Wow, I sounded a little like Martha Stewart there. Can't help it - love Christmas.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Now I can't find the bloody source, but I swear reading that Chinese Astronomy records had recorded the supposed "Star of Bethlahem" which lead the wise men to the place of Christs birth. It also proved that Christ was in fact NOT born on December 25th, but some time in the spring or summer. It was later moved to coincide with the winter solstice.

If someone could help me find it, it would be greatly appreciated, currently I'm trying to find it and will edit as soon as I do.


Edit: found something interesting http://www.astronomynotes.com/history/bethlehem-star.html

 

[backinthepresentfuture]

why simply since the crusades! don't believe it? we'll kill your family,burn your village and eat your babies in order to prove that our lord exists.

 

[Lyri]

Giving gifts isn't the issue here. I'm sorry you inferred that. The date, many of the traditions, and the base concept all come from prior celebrations they co-opted. It's not JUST the date, no.

So your excusing one and not the other appears to come from your own lack of knowledge. Okay, I guess I can understand that. Least you're not being actively hypocritical.

Are you going to explain your point in order to debate or are you just going straight to the insults?

I never made any claim it was ok for any group to steal others holidays.

But you said it was right for Christians to be offended that their holiday was co-opted, though they co-opted it themselves. How are you not applying a different standard to them?

I didn't apply any standard, it's something you strongly seem to suggest I have though. I never excused Christianity for anything they have or have not done, but I believe they should have a right to their holidays as much as any religious group.

Well, in order to shuffle out the pagans, they had to mostly replace their holidays. Instead of a harvest festival, Halloween! Instead of fertility, Easter! Most things became about Christianity when the Christians declared themselves rules of religion (that was mostly supposed to be humorous).

Humorous but essentially what happened when Monarchy and rulers decided that theirs was a divine right to rule, they used the power of the church to persuade the people.

 

[NotSoLoneWanderer]

Yes, Christmas is in fact a Christian holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

Ever wondered why it's called "Christmas"?

Giving presents to each other is just something that has developed over time.

Yup this. Immigrants coming from Europe would beg from wealthy Americans as it was tradition to go house to house begging for gifts and they would often go to the wealthiest neighborhoods. The wealthy people some of whom happened to be in the media (this was errr late 1800's early 1900's I believe) basically changed Christmas into staying at home and buying or making things for your family. Of course the people begging in Europe splintered off from not exchanging gifts at all and going to church then eating a meal.

 

[Jack Skelhon]

Y'all posting in a troll thread.