Skryim is outdated

[aretelio]

I got to thinking about how nice the third person animations were until I realized that I'll probably craft some type of Chameleon armor that will pretty much make any visual improvements null and void to me.

Oh well.

Regardless, I've got nothing more or less to add that hasn't probably already been said in the past seven pages so I'll just keep on reading and waiting for my preorder to arrive.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

If this leads to idiotic fanboys coming in here to rage and not even finish reading the post, that's their problem, not mine.

It is... I've seen you whine once or twice on almost every page about people not reading.

I'm a journalist (okay, final year journalism student, almost the same thing). I bring news.

Really, everyone knew Skyrim was being developed for consoles, so it being technologically outdated is hardly news.

You say you like it, and that's good, really. But you only pointed out and extrapolated on its flaws, which could easily paint this as a run-of-the-mill hate thread... that was the vibe I got when I read it the first time, I'll admit.

Oh, and your ending line:

Oh well, it'll still be a nice walk-in-the-mountains simulator.

Doesn't really strike me as praise, so much as a sarcasm-fueled final stab. :/

Might be worth your time to edit in a sentence or two (more would be better, of course) of actual praise into that post, otherwise you'll still be getting a steady stream of ragers... just sayin'. :<

This guy, said exactly what I was going to say. OP you completely glossed over all that is good and, if I may say so, misrepresented and even lied about the content.

The only bit of honesty I read in your comment was the weightless combat and the less then riveting dialogue system, but that has been known since the early live previews that a few lucky individuals experienced.

Your comparison between Fallout 3's Deathclaws and Werewolves is just wrong. I have seen the Werewolves in leaked footage and other then been hunched over with arms held in at broken angles (like a raptor), the animation is completely new. My qualification? 4 years studying (with a degree) in Animation. I can see a very vague similarity and it is possible the same template was used, but the animation is ALL NEW (from scratch) and completely refined over the Deathclaws. If I worked on that, I would be incredibly offended by your lack appreciation and the gall to say I copied it.

Humanoid animation is COMPLETELY NEW, and saying otherwise only implies you have an agenda against the game. The animation still has quirks from what I've seen, but comparing it to Oblivion and implying it is a copy paste job is obnoxiously ignorant. Seriously, go back and play oblivion and rethink what you said... I'm playing right now waiting for Skyrim and I can see without a shadow of a doubt, a difference in quality that is like black is to white.

I suggest you redo your OP and use at least some of that journalistic education. Surely some of it rubbed off on you. I'm pretty sure baseless and even totally untrue statements are frowned upon (at least the blatant ones).

 

[Duffeknol]

If this leads to idiotic fanboys coming in here to rage and not even finish reading the post, that's their problem, not mine.

It is... I've seen you whine once or twice on almost every page about people not reading.

I'm a journalist (okay, final year journalism student, almost the same thing). I bring news.

Really, everyone knew Skyrim was being developed for consoles, so it being technologically outdated is hardly news.

You say you like it, and that's good, really. But you only pointed out and extrapolated on its flaws, which could easily paint this as a run-of-the-mill hate thread... that was the vibe I got when I read it the first time, I'll admit.

Oh, and your ending line:

Oh well, it'll still be a nice walk-in-the-mountains simulator.

Doesn't really strike me as praise, so much as a sarcasm-fueled final stab. :/

Might be worth your time to edit in a sentence or two (more would be better, of course) of actual praise into that post, otherwise you'll still be getting a steady stream of ragers... just sayin'. :<

This guy, said exactly what I was going to say. OP you completely glossed over all that is good and, if I may say so, misrepresented and even lied about the content.

The only bit of honesty I read in your comment was the weightless combat and the less then riveting dialogue system, but that has been known since the early live previews that a few lucky individuals experienced.

Your comparison between Fallout 3's Deathclaws and Werewolves is just wrong. I have seen the Werewolves in leaked footage and other then been hunched over with arms held in at broken angles (like a raptor), the animation is completely new. My qualification? 4 years studying (with a degree) in Animation. I can see a very vague similarity and it is possible the same template was used, but the animation is ALL NEW (from scratch) and completely refined over the Deathclaws. If I worked on that, I would be incredibly offended by your lack appreciation and the gall to say I copied it.

Humanoid animation is COMPLETELY NEW, and saying otherwise only implies you have an agenda against the game. The animation still has quirks from what I've seen, but comparing it to Oblivion and implying it is a copy paste job is obnoxiously ignorant. Seriously, go back and play oblivion and rethink what you said... I'm playing right now waiting for Skyrim and I can see without a shadow of a doubt, a difference in quality that is like black is to white.

I suggest you redo your OP and use at least some of that journalistic education. Surely some of it rubbed off on you. I'm pretty sure baseless and even totally untrue statements are frowned upon (at least the blatant ones).

Just wait til' you're fighting your first NPCs. You will squint your eyes, scratch your head and say 'yeah, they really move the exact same'. With your 4 years in animation (I don't doubt that's true) you can probably pick up on very minor differences, but to me (a non-expert like the rest of the world) they look like a 100% copy paste job.
They added new stuff, though, like taunts. Rest looks the exact same. Same running, same sword swinging.
Not saying this is gamebreaking or whatever. I understand that since you're an animator you get offended when a pleb like me thinks it's kinda shit and lazy. But yeah, to me it just looked like shit and lazy.
And just to clarify; we are NOT talking about the protagonist's animation. Everyone knows that's done a lot better, my OP says so as well. It's the rest of the world we're talking about.

 

[honestdiscussioner]

Spoiler

Except that they did change things. I haven't even played it and I know that. How about the voice acting? Is it as repetitive? 12 voice actors vs. the now 70 voice actors? Come on.

Yes, they did change 'things'. But not what I mentioned.

Also I didn't even go into the voice acting (which is fine in Skyrim btw), what are you even talking about?

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't think I would need to remind you of your own post. Allow me to then:

Yes, it looks nice, but why does everything else feel the same?

Now, I had some fun with Oblivion, it's a good game, especially for its time, but why is the ONLY damn thing they've improved over the years the graphics?

You spoke dogmatically. You made blanket statements that said nothing was improved but the graphics. Instead, you should have just complained about what you didn't like, because there are MANY improvements to the game, probably ones you didn't notice (and shouldn't be expect to as things are less visible when they work right).

How about dual wielding? Combination spells? Finishing move animations? Ability perks? New spells like clairvoyance so you never get lost? Do these count as "nothing"?

If you want to complain about specific things, be my guest. Strike that, I ENCOURAGE you to do that. Don't make blanket statements though, they'll almost always be wrong.

See how I said "almost" right there?

This is... painfully true. I apologize.

I must say though that by 'feel the same', 'feel' is the key word there. Of course there's new features, the but feel of the game is the same, and in my opinion that is what they should have improved, dual wielding fireballs or not. But yeah I could've made that a lot clearer.

No worries. Admitting you made a mistake is hard. You should be commended.

As far as it feeling the same, that's your opinion, and therefore a valid observation to make. I'd argue that it isn't too much of a bad thing though, that they probably WANT the feel to be preserved. It is an Elder Scrolls game. I can point to the fact that Fallout 3 certainly felt different than Oblivion, even with the same rag-doll physics, so the similar feel may be intentional.

 

[Beryl77]

No offense but it doesn't mean much to me if you say that. It's just one person who says that and I never just believe something like that. I want to play it myself first then I can discuss things like this.

 

[Kyle1527]

Okay, let's break this down:

1: Everything else feels the same. - You mean how in a sequel it feels like the previous game? Name ONE RPG that didn't feel like its predecessor. Morrowind and oblivion felt the same...so what?

2: Weightless Physics. - You mean RAGDOLL physics, they aren't weightless by any means, if you've seen a dragon pick up and drop a for you'll know what I mean.

3: Horrible Character Animations - From what I've seen the character animations are greatly improved

4: Awkward Standstill conversations - Have you even played the game? You can move around while talking, the npc continues their activity -_-.

5: idiotic AI - The AI in Oblivion was fine!!!

6: Dude, I saw some leaked footage and I felt immersed, I don't know what game your playing. I had no problems with oblivion nor morrowind except for the overencumbrance making you stand still.

 

[Kyle1527]

Oblivion 2.0 Why should anybody be surprised ? Unless you like listen to Todd Howard bullshit you, for some reason.

Probably the funniest thing I've ever read. So what type of troll are you?

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

Could've been a lot better, that's all I'm trying to say in this thread

And most would say it's the consoles' fault. (See my previous post) :/

It'd be nice if you explained that a bit more instead of just saying that the consoles are outdated. Consoles may be slightly limited, but their run about the same as the average man's PC. And anything that strictly limits itself to the higher end PC market is just f*cked commercially. But even with that fact, that doesn't mean that Bethesda were incapable of updating most of their features. Simply blaming things like psychic guards on platforms that are clearly quite capable of running basic non-telepathic AI in large open worlds (see AC II and RDR) is pretty unfair, not to mention a lazy excuse.

 

[Eggsnham]

I'm still getting it and I still can't wait for the game, even if what you say is true.

That said, it's a hugely anticipated game, so they're going to overhype everything about it. From the minor improvements, to the majorly drastic changes, to the things that haven't even been tweaked just a little bit.

Like I said though, still gonna get it, still gonna log insane amounts of time into it.

 

[Smeggs]

Damnit, the same wierd running animation and that strange, "Juuuuuuust leeeeeet meeeeeee tuuuuuuurn tooooooo faaaaaace yoooooooou toooooo taaaaaaalk" thing? Well, at least I heard the combat is improved. I can disregard the awkward conversations and retarded running animation as long as the combat is improved.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

One word: Mods.

 

[Kyle1527]

Oblivion 2.0 Why should anybody be surprised ? Unless you like listen to Todd Howard bullshit you, for some reason.

Probably the funniest thing I've ever read. So what type of troll are you?

Just someone who isn't as gullible as all these fangirls, that's all.

I respect that, but at least give the game a go and see if you like it.

 

[sharkinz]

Since when does a game have to be revolutionary in every way to qualify as a good game. Why can't the game being fun (which is, you know, the whole point of video games) be a good enough reason to play the game.

Since never, since I never said that. Next time read before you post.

It is entirely possible I misunderstood your post then, but it seemed to me that the main thing you dislike about the game is that it hasn't improved since oblivion. Which is a perfectly reasonable complaint, but if you hold that against Skyrim then you have to hold it against every COD game since COD 4 and every other modern shooter out there and most fighting games.

 

[AppleShrapnel]

massive snip

Now this is a troll post.

I mean, just... wow.

The quotation marks are throwing me, though. Are these your petty thoughts or someone else's? /:|

 

[dessertmonkeyjk]

All games are usually outdated in one aspect or another. When AI or animations can be done better you can say the techniques in said game outdo another.

Nothing surprising about this even with all this hype that has made it to my eyes and ears. In fact, I'm half expecting this to be a letdown in some way with all this said hype so it'll sell. Not that I WANT TO see it fail... I don't think it deserves that. With MW3 on the other hand...

And Euphoria... I know it was in GTA4 (and maybe Force Unleashed?), and it was fairly awesome. There was certainly more weight to things, but that didn't stop floating altogether... to me, anyway.

I wonder if Euphoria made any attempt with multi-legged creatures yet... that would of been awesome seeing the dragons having simulated animations on them.

 

[CATS FTW]

ITT: People expecting the video game messiah, then being dissapoint when it's just a video game.

Except for the fact that Skyrim totes is the videogame messiah, I just love the mechanics of TES games, as well as gameplay, the whole game just seems pristine to me. I would cal it perfect because it's exactly what I'm looking for. That's just my opinion but for me... Well, this game's gonna rock my socks.

 

[dessertmonkeyjk]

Edit: Whoops. I forgot I already posted earlier. :/

 

[Gothtasical]

understandable... yea they probably wouldn't change to much to it i mean why change to much when you keep making money off of it, on the other side of that i heard they worked with the a.i. a lot better and im sorry but because they stand still will never make a game bad. and it's better then many other games out there. yea we could have gotten more but i mean everyone is going to by it who wants to and there going to play it and i doubt to many people will complain why? because it's more of what they want and now it's even prettier.

oh and trolls- keep in mind if you had to make a game (where people are expecting it to be prettier) do you know how long that takes? im more impressed they even looked at the conversations with npc's when having to deal with the massive map. and it's not like you can do to much better so if your going to complain then either don't play it or make something better.

 

[IlikeLolis]

Only goes to show that they will ignore you again for The Next Elder Scrolls.

They are Elderly Scrolls, they can't hear too well and the Finer Details Evade them.

 

[Uncompetative]

Played it yesterday for a few hours since a buddy of mine got it (legally) early on PS3.
Yes, it looks nice, but why does everything else feel the same? The same weightless physics, the same horrible character animations (not yourself, 3rd person looks fine, it's the NPCs that are still shit), the same awkward standstill conversations (though now not as zoomed in, and sometimes they even move their hands), the same absolutely idiotic AI...

Now, I had some fun with Oblivion, it's a good game, especially for its time, but why is the ONLY damn thing they've improved over the years the graphics? They've had so much time, yet most of the stuff we get is directly ported over from Oblivion. Worst was when two characters were standing in front of each other, completely motionless (save for their faces), shouting at the top of their lungs something like 'OH MY GOD A DRAGON WTF WTF WTF'. I mean, shit. Another thing was when a character runs for his life (again, with the exact same character animations of people running in Oblivion), then when he's reached his waypoint he turns around to meet you super damn slowly like everything is alright.

It's like they took all the (valid) criticism they got with Oblivion (a good game, but by far not perfect) and just decided to disregard EVERYTHING.

Oh well, it'll still be a nice walk-in-the-mountains simulator.

EDIT: before I get even more fire. It's not that I don't enjoy this game. I love walking in the mountains. It's just that it could've been better and they could've done something with the critique they got last time.

EDIT #2: Naturally, everyone assumes I am 'trolling'. Problem is, I really have played the game. How? It was released here yesterday. http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=skyrim+netherlands&meta=

You expect too much. Don't you realise that creating something like this is SUPER HARD?

Assassin's Creed took 300 people 3 years. That is knocking on the door of 1000 man-years. Then critics whined about the auto-jump parkour.

Doubling the size of a development team does not halve the time taken to produce a game. Fred Brooks would agree with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month

Even if you tripled the team size in order to do in 3 years what would have taken an uncommercial 6, you are looking at triple the costs which will force the price you pay from £40 to £100 - as Microsoft / Sony take £10 of that away. Maybe something could be worked out with the use of Episodic content, with the developer being funded to create six quests at a time as DLC extensions to a thread-bare "world". Yet, everyone says they hate DLC, about the only place this works is with World of Warcraft. Do you want gaming to go to a subscription model so you are paying for it even when you are not playing it? Surely, that is worse than putting endless quarters into a Gauntlet machine at the Arcade to be able to give your dungeon explorers extra Health?

Ok. Put that entire argument on one side... Name one RPG that does what you think Skyrim ought to have easily managed given the state of the art. Did you say: Mass Effect? Isn't that the game that is a Jack of all trades, but a master of none? In fact, the only quasi-RPG that I can think of that has reasonable physics, character animation and NPC AI is GTA IV and I think Rockstar ruined that with the restrictive storyline.

Can we expect RPG games to attain your high standards on the next batch of consoles? Probably not. At least with the launch titles. The snag is the cost will force publishers to dictate studios to produce streamlined cinematic experiences with ever decreasing interactivity. Uncharted 3 is an early herald of this future, thankfully learning from the excesses of MGS4, yet remaining something with little to no depth or replay value. Having an enormous map that your character can freely explore requires a whole lot of expensive to develop content be stuffed into it on the off-chance you will visit it. Skyrim is already smaller than Oblivion for this very reason, as Oblivion was smaller than Morrowind. It remains to be seen whether GTA V will regain the scale of San Andreas - if it does it will have to be a mandatory install to avoid disc-swapping as you fly over L.A. Personally, I think we should be thankful that we live at a time when gaming can provide such riches and appreciate the overworked and often underpaid developers who are often fired after meeting the deadline with a relationship undermining 'crunch'.