Don't get me wrong, I think you're right, it IS quite a dick move on their side, but after all, Bethesda is after the money, and the console crowd is, unfortunately, more rewarding.AndyFromMonday said:
Skyrim to be a console port which "shouldn't be too hard"
- Thread starter DaHero
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You have a couple options here then. Play it or don't. There are plenty of other games for you if this was too biased to console in your opinion. I for one am ecstatic about the new generation of games made for the newer generation of consoles. It's just so much better to me to sit/lay back and relax while I play games, that's not entirely practical with keyboard and mouse. Again in my opinion, a lot of the predominantly-for-PC games played by KB/mouse feel more like work than gaming.DaHero said:
Additional: Holy crap I just clicked the little speaker on the captcha box because I had something resembling a middle eastern language...kinda... and that thing sounded freakin' spooky.
Hi, my name is Oblivion, besides a few slightly, but hardly more then irritating menu layouts, I controlled exactly the same on the pc then I did on the Xbox!
I mean, I'm assuming the controls will be like Obivion.
WASD to move around and mouse to look? Like every other FPS?
So controls isn't a issue.
Gameplay,
Don't get any illusions, pc gamers aren't smarter, more intelligent or better at RPG's. Any game mechanic that was changed from Oblivion to Skyrim ( good or bad) would have been made if it was developed for the pc market as well.
Graphics.
Besides the increased options, yes they might be less then perfect for current day high tech. But does it really matter? Aren't we always saying that a good game doesn't HAVE to look photo realistic to be fun.
*cough*minecraft*cough
I mean, I'm assuming the controls will be like Obivion.
WASD to move around and mouse to look? Like every other FPS?
So controls isn't a issue.
Gameplay,
Don't get any illusions, pc gamers aren't smarter, more intelligent or better at RPG's. Any game mechanic that was changed from Oblivion to Skyrim ( good or bad) would have been made if it was developed for the pc market as well.
Graphics.
Besides the increased options, yes they might be less then perfect for current day high tech. But does it really matter? Aren't we always saying that a good game doesn't HAVE to look photo realistic to be fun.
*cough*minecraft*cough
That does not excuse their actions in any ways and I hope PC gamers everywhere try and boycott the game. Unfortunately, that will never happen which is quite sad.Alon Shechter said:
ffeted houfes I would guess.Thrust said:Oblivion was a console port and it was awesome, it wasn't flawed.
WTF? how am I supposed to write that Captcha ?
Anyway, considering you haven't actually played it, I'd reserve judgement for when you have.
^Agreed.mr.mystery said:
I'm a console gamer anyway, so it doesn't bother me.
But i can see why PC gamers may a be a bit cautious about the game. Hey look on the bright side guys, you can Mod the game if it isn't brilliant, although lets wait till it's out huh?
Boycott the game because it's a port? Wow.AndyFromMonday said:
Wait till it's released for god sake, you can't just say "i wish the PC community would boycott this game" simply because it's being made for console, then they are porting it over to PC. This could be a very good port (and judging by other Bethesda games they will not fail the PC community)
As i say, wait till it's released, don't jump on the "it will be a crap port" bandwagon.
Seriously, people. Oblivion was a perfectly fine game despite having been 'Consolefied'. The most console thing about it as opposed to Morrowind was it's menu system, which wasn't -fantastic-, but it worked perfectly fine and after a few minutes was no problem at all to navigate. Please, complain about a real problem, not something imaginary.
I personally think Crytek are the only ones that have got porting right. They set the entire UI aspect up then built the game on a PC and the engine would auto-port all the work over and create something that each console would handle. The result was a game that was pinnacle on each system it ran on, built big and only trimmed back where it was needed, not built to spec and just packed in a bigger box than was necessary, so to speak. But if the trailers are real-time, then I will be looking forward to it, as long as I don't need to have 30 different mods running to make the game adequately immersive. I just hope that the PC version will allow PC enthusiasts to really crank up the detail.
What about that video card bug where going into stealth caused a black screen? Oh and the horses not turning? Oh and the crash to desktop the first time I went into the Imperial City?Ranorak said:
and yes, PC gamers are MUCH better at the RPG genre, hell they practically stepped from pen and paper (which is undeniably the beginning of the RPG) straight into a DnD game. The PC was practically built for RPGs, just because Final Fantasy was a console title does not mean RPGs are suddenly perfect for the console. If anything, consoles are adept at handling sports, racing, and fighters. FPS, RPG, and RTS will always be better on the PC, and any developer that does otherwise (like Bethesda/BioWare) are admitting to basically preferring Mega Blocks to Legos.
Oh and holy crap...are you really going to say WASD is the only control in the game? What about menus? Quickbars? mini-games?
WASD is a baseline movement control, go troll somewhere else.
Dude What I mean was it wasn't flawed because it was a console port, it's flaws came from design.ItsAChiaotzu said:ffeted houfes I would guess.Thrust said:Oblivion was a console port and it was awesome, it wasn't flawed.
WTF? how am I supposed to write that Captcha ?
Anyway, considering you haven't actually played it, I'd reserve judgement for when you have.
Er, actually, a games company exists to make a profit - its not nice but it's the way of the world. Presumably they're motivated by trying make the game as good as it can be for their largest market.AndyFromMonday said:
"Excuse their actions"? They are making a game, not fulfilling some long term pledge to one group of gamers. They have a right to pursue the development process they want to, not the one you want them to.
Those graphical issues COULD come from console ports, yes.DaHero said:
But unless you have some sort of proof, they could come from various sources of graphical issues.
As for RPG's starting on consoles, agreed. But what makes you think that just because I have a Xbox360 I'm worse at RPG's then you are? I played Baldur's Gate II and Neverwinter Nights. They are fun RPG's on the pc, but get your head out of your ass if you think that just because you play them on a pc, you're automaticly smarter.
If a "pure" pc RPG was shipped with a keyboard and mouse (to nullify any control condition so the experiment is based purely on 'skill' and intellect.) any console player would be just as good with it as a pc player.
Saying that rpgs came from table top to pc is right, but claiming that because of that, anyone who plays on a pc is far superiour at rpg's then a console gamer is total shit.
Besides, that argument would also imply that Table top RPG's players are better at rpg's then pc, because it was there first.
Now this might be a little paradoxal for me, seeing as I play console RPG's and table top.
Alright. Menu:
You flip through the pages, and click on the tabs at the button of the screen. Perfect? No, a crime against humanity that should put Bethesda in jail. Not by a long shot.
Mini games: You flip the mouse up for a lock pick, we flip the left control stick up. You click the mouse, we press A. The difficulty was in the timing, sound and the notion of the speed the tumbler would move, both were equally challenging at first.
As for trolling, I'm disagreeing with you. Not flaming, if you have to resort to name calling on the notion that a game was not made for a pc but a console to a random stranger who disagrees with the notion of doom and dismay, you might want to sort out your priorities.
I realy dont mind that much if it is a port, but I bet they will want to charge $60 bucks for it on the PC. Id accept all the bullshit about rising cost and what not for PC development, but they are not developing it for the PC, they are developing it for the Xbox360 and porting it.
Then there is the lack of fees associated with PCs unlike Xbox and PS3. So its just pathetic greed to overcharge PC gamers for a game that will work on a PC, but isnt made with the typical amounts of ram involved in a gameing PC. You cant even rent PC games so each purchase is a real customer that thought your game should have been bought and didnt just enjoy your product on Gamefly or whatever....
Yet, we are expected to pay equel price for a game developed for a lesser machine that has fees the PC platform does not. It would seem that slaping PC gamers in the face over the years has gotten to be a passtime for game developers. Sadly if PC gamers dont buy a game for the PC becouse they dont agree with the DRM, price, qaulity of the port, they just assume piracy has reduced PC sales numbers and blame everyone but themselfs for the state of PC sales figures for their game.
Im not saying piracy doent figure in, just that the developers/publishers make it so much more attractive when the stolen version of the game is better than the bought version. Or to put it another way, its a pain to punished for buying something, so why not avoid the punishment.
Perhaps Skyrim will be "Teh most EpIk GOAT" regaurdless of platform, and perhaps PC will get the best version available with mods, but I for one constantly feel Im getting shited on every time I buy a "PC game" recently and fear that it will only get worse.
Then there is the lack of fees associated with PCs unlike Xbox and PS3. So its just pathetic greed to overcharge PC gamers for a game that will work on a PC, but isnt made with the typical amounts of ram involved in a gameing PC. You cant even rent PC games so each purchase is a real customer that thought your game should have been bought and didnt just enjoy your product on Gamefly or whatever....
Yet, we are expected to pay equel price for a game developed for a lesser machine that has fees the PC platform does not. It would seem that slaping PC gamers in the face over the years has gotten to be a passtime for game developers. Sadly if PC gamers dont buy a game for the PC becouse they dont agree with the DRM, price, qaulity of the port, they just assume piracy has reduced PC sales numbers and blame everyone but themselfs for the state of PC sales figures for their game.
Im not saying piracy doent figure in, just that the developers/publishers make it so much more attractive when the stolen version of the game is better than the bought version. Or to put it another way, its a pain to punished for buying something, so why not avoid the punishment.
Perhaps Skyrim will be "Teh most EpIk GOAT" regaurdless of platform, and perhaps PC will get the best version available with mods, but I for one constantly feel Im getting shited on every time I buy a "PC game" recently and fear that it will only get worse.
Exactly so. Companies don't "owe" you anything except the game you've bought and paid for. You're not giving them money for some magical ideal game in the future, you pay them for the game you're buying, that's it. If you don't feel it's worth the money, go somewhere else, but don't think Bethesda owe you shit. It's nice when companies like Valve give out free DLC and extensive support or whatever, but by and large this is not how the world works. A company's interest is in making money, and to resent them for that is silly. By all means, deny them revenue by not buying the game if it's a bad port, because that's how you voice your opinion: with your wallet. People bitching about companies screwing them over as if they have a vendetta against them is pure entitlement; they didn't bring a mandatory patch in that destroys all the old games did they? I guess people are always really combative against anything that mildly displeases them. It's not a very healthy attitude to take all in all.Ironic Pirate said:
Also, this rant isn't directed at you, more so the guy you were quoting, but I agree and such, so...
They have the right to do so but that does not mean they're free of criticism nor are their actions justified. They abandoned their core platform and the gamers who gave them the money to actually be able to develop AAA games for consoles. We, or at least I, don't believe PC gamers should get better treatment. What I DO believe is that the PC should be treated like a PC and not like a gaming console. It's capable of more so why not get more. I want our machines to be used to their full capabilities and treated fairly, not just some port machine that can be used to make a quick buck or two.rossatdi said:
I understand that they want to make money. HOWEVER, I remember a time when they only wanted to make good games. When huge piles of cash wasn't the only goal of game development. When innovation and pushing the industry forward was the main goal for creating games. Look at how many great games we got in the past due to this: KOTOR 1 and even 2, Morrowind, Daggerfall, WarCraft, StarCraft, Baldur's Gate etc. THAT'S what I want. I don't believe sacrificing a platform that is capable of more in favor of one that is outdated is the healthy decision for the industry at the moment. Making games should be more than just making cash. THIS is why we're seeing so many sequels and so little innovation. I like the fact that gaming as gotten so much exposure over the year and I'm glad so many people can experience the wonderful medium of gaming but what I hate is that the medium, as it stands, is full of rehashed shit or just plain crap games.
We haven't gotten a truly influential game since ever. Where's the innovation? Where's the ambition to push the industry forward? Nowadays, this goals only exist in the indie scene. For fucks sake, the most influential game of the decade could arguably be called Minecraft as it spawned an entire new genre of games. Look at terraria, a game that uses the basic concepts of Minecraft but uses an entirely different gameplay style. THAT is innovation. THAT is pushing the industry forward. THAT'S what we should be seeing more and if that means making the industry smaller then so be it.
It's a port, it's obviously going to be limited by console hardware. They said it themselves they're not going to bother actually optimizing it. The mechanics are made so consoles could handle it and basically the entire game is based around being playable on a console and frankly, I don't want that on the PC. I don't want to have to pay the same amount of money just so I could play it on the platform it was obviously not designed for. If they really didn't give a shit about the PC they shouldn't have bothered releasing it or at the very least they should have released it at a much smaller price.arc1991 said:
It's not the port that buggers me. It's the fact that the game was not designed for the PC. If you want to treat every platform equally then do so but do not limit yourself just because you want to make a quick buck. THAT is not helping the industry, THAT is stagnating it and gaming should not be based on console hardware. It gets outdated far to quickly to allow for actual innovation to occur.
Unfortunately, with a smaller market share, highly diverse hardware and lower retail price (at least in the UK by a long way) being treated fairly means getting less attention.AndyFromMonday said:
I'm not sure I follow. There have always been crap games and some of the best are sequels. Morrowind is a sequel and unless you're talking of the first Warcraft the biggest money spinner for Blizzard came after 3 RTSs.
Technology isn't really holding the industry back, I'm sure you'd agree that more ideas in gaming is something that we're all looking for. I would argue that this is stymied by rapidly advancing hardware. Set platforms like the 360 and the PS3 must give developers a far easier time because they don't have to worry about making sure a game can run of a budget PC with X, Y and Z components and well as being truly stunning on a high end PC with A, B and C components. Some of the most fun/interesting games in recent years have been stuff like Braid, Limbo and 'Splosion Man which are cheap little console developments.
While that's a nice concept, the idea of an industry purposefully cutting itself down to be less profitable and smaller is just unrealistic, massively so. The tools for little indie developers to come up with ideas which then filter through into the mainstream are bigger than ever before and Minecraft is a great example. Nothing the industry is doing is going to make this harder. The only limiting factor is development cost and that is, in part, driven by ever increasing technological advancement - something that is inevitable and unavoidable.
From your above quote the assertion would appear to be that no game has been influential since Morrowind, unless I'm misunderstanding your point, I can't see how you can possibly justify claiming there's been no advancement to the world of gaming since 2002.
Yes, sequels can be good when they improve wholly on the original idea. Look at Assassins Creed 2 and, like you said, Morrowind. Sequels CAN be good, it's just that sequels nowadays are treated like a way to simply change the game a bit and then release it to on the market with minimal innovation. Look at EA Sports or any of the recent games released this year. All sequels with very little innovation.rossatdi said:
To be honest, technology IS holding gaming back. Certain ideas can only be realized using modern technology, especially ideas that involve huge sprawling words filled with people I.E. what Skyrim attempts to be. Red Dead Redemption tried this and while the world wasn't exactly filled with people it still stuttered like a drunken horse at times. As ideas get more complex you need complex means to realize them. Better technology doesn't always have to mean better graphics.
And that's called laziness. Putting as much effort as you can into a game will undoubtedly result in quality. Being lazy, however, won't. Ideas are getting more complex than ever and as such hardware and software must be up to the task so those ideas can be realized. Yes, it's hard to make a game on a PC giving that the hardware is so diverse. However, developers were willing to do so in the past. Let's not forget that back then, most companies did not have huge offices filled with hundreds of employees. Why should gaming become more simplistic when the means to develop one are becoming more complex? Nowadays, one programmer doesn't have to do all the work.
I'd much rather wait 5 years for an amazing game with a lot of effort put into it than 2 years for a mediocre one.
Developers need to stop treating new technology as a new foothold into ever increasing graphical complexity. I'm not saying developing should be made harder. I'm saying that when it gets easier you should also work harder. If creating a world is easier now why not work harder to make it more complex? The tools are there for anyone to do so.rossatdi said:
The reason games cost so much is because of graphics. Most gamers demand better graphics but that doesn't always have to be the case. A good art style and an amazing world can make up for mediocre graphics because you can hide it. Braid doesn't have amazing graphics but it does have an amazing art style which gives it it's stile and makes the whole world vibrant and interesting.
Let me give you an example. Let's say 5 years ago, it would take one year to make one character. So you develop a game for 3 years, putting 3 characters in the game. After 5 years, the technology has been developed further and now creating one character takes only one month and yet for some reason developers are still creating only 3 characters. I hope you understand.
I didn't mean it that way. What I was trying to say is that games are no longer as influential. We no longer see innovation. Assassins Creed revolutionized action games and AC2 perfected that formula. Now, instead of attempting to perfect the formula even further and add new mechanics they're just rehashing the same shit over and over again.rossatdi said: