So Bloodborne
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I played and finished Demons Souls and Dark Souls which felt pretty much the same game only I liked the environment more in Dark and the mystery behind the setting in Demons. Also Demons of course felt fresher to me and I enjoyed the bosses a lot more. I only really enjoyed the Artorias Fight in Dark and that optional fight with the woman who comes to his grave afterwards if you can call that a boss fight.
I enjoyed Dark but was left with no want to play Dark Souls 2 sometimes I want more of the same only slightly different only here I didnt. Bloodbourne looks like it changes up the formula enough for me to give it another go but I have zero hype for the game and there are many others I want to try before I touch it no doubt there will be DLC and I will get the complete game with all DLC in a few years most likely when its cheap.
I enjoyed Dark but was left with no want to play Dark Souls 2 sometimes I want more of the same only slightly different only here I didnt. Bloodbourne looks like it changes up the formula enough for me to give it another go but I have zero hype for the game and there are many others I want to try before I touch it no doubt there will be DLC and I will get the complete game with all DLC in a few years most likely when its cheap.
Honestly, I had way more trouble with bosses in Dark Souls and Demon Souls than any regular boss in NG, the only time NG became consistently harder than most of Dark Souls was going through NGB on Master Ninja mode, and the game still had the lame easy pattern bosses like the Helicopter and tank in the trainyard, and that fat blob thing in the caves.hybridial said:You do know Ninja Gaiden Black came out long before Demon's Souls, and is also the standard for all 3D action combat games that have never been equalled? And is also far more fun than any Souls game will ever be because the enemy AI like, exists in it?josemlopes said:
(And to think, all the shit I got for complaining that the combat sucked in Dark Souls compared to Ninja Gaiden Black because "they're not comparable" and "do different things")
Oh, and once you reach Alma, you'll probably wish the game was as easy as Dark Souls ^_^
Yeah, the combat is different in DS compared to the NG series, NG is fast and instantly responsive, it's meant for quick reactions whereas DS will punish you for mistiming attacks since you have to commit to them in order to hit an enemy. While I can see liking NGs combat more than DS, the combat systems are trying to do two very different things.
You are right that NG kind of set the standard for fast based action games though, but I never found the series anywhere near as difficult as Dark Souls on the normal difficulty levels. Master Ninja mode was pretty nuts, but the normal difficulty levels could usually be cheesed through with moderate skills and spamming items.
It feels so good to wake up and finish off that damn boss. Not to ruin any neat little surprises, but you get some intense boss fights pretty early.
The Kirkhammer is awesome.
The Kirkhammer is awesome.
I have no idea why anyone could say Dark Souls is harder than Ninja Gaiden. Dark Souls' enemies have no AI, and it is so easy to exploit them into silly behaviours. The only inherent difference is because of Dark Souls clunky mechanics and poise systems, you're forced to essentially manage your attacks.EternallyBored said:
That doesn't make it harder, more challenging or more interesting. It just makes it more tedious.
There are individual points in Dark Souls that taken on their own, are pretty tough. But also, to me most of both games is a blur because it becomes laughably easy for great lengths. In terms of pacing and balance... there is none of either. No consistent upping of the ante, no demand that you get better. Once you know what works you can stick to it for the entire game. Hump the legs of big enemies, circle strafe others for backstabs, and just take it slow since you can't fight many enemies at once. Because of the mechanics, because the game says you can only attack and block so much and thus the game becomes about aggro and knowing how to cheese enemies to death instead of any remote amount of skill.
The positive qualities of the Dark Souls games, all exist outside of the combat. The combat is just not fun, and I can assure you that if I can learn the patience it takes to beat it, literally anyone can. (I'm not the most patient sort).
As for games harder than it on normal, well I know of plenty, albiet they're in other genres. Resident Evil Remake, Baldur's Gate, F-Zero GX and Splinter Cell off the top of my head. Great games too.
It really, really looks stunning. But from what I've heard about the game itself, and fact I'd have to buy a PS4 to play, it can wait.
One thing I'm curious to hear from anyone who's played it. I enjoyed Dark Souls, 7/10 for me, but one of the main things which put me off finishing it was the repetativeness of it all. It really, really bogged the game down having to do the same thing, over and over again - especially when it was just getting to an area where you were having trouble. You'd often waste 2-5 min just getting there in order to try and re-attempt a boss or area. It killed the game for me.
Is Bloodborne as bad?
One thing I'm curious to hear from anyone who's played it. I enjoyed Dark Souls, 7/10 for me, but one of the main things which put me off finishing it was the repetativeness of it all. It really, really bogged the game down having to do the same thing, over and over again - especially when it was just getting to an area where you were having trouble. You'd often waste 2-5 min just getting there in order to try and re-attempt a boss or area. It killed the game for me.
Is Bloodborne as bad?
Impatiently waiting for Amazon to deliver my Collector's edition. With luck I'll be playing it tomorrow.
I own Dark Souls 1 but haven't had the massive amount of time the game looks like it will require so I cannot truly say whether or not I like the style of game Bloodborne is. That said, I assume I will like it and am bummed that it is doomed to much lower sales and relevance by being a PS4 exclusive, especially when the Dev has a history of being smarter than that. I really wish the info behind why things are exclusive were public because I have to assume that From Software was offered a cartoonishly large bag of money to make it exclusive when it clearly has no reason to be. Still, if I like Dark Souls 1 I will be even more bummed that From Software decided to screw over 2/3rds of their fans by going exclusive. And anything short of a wonderful triple A port won't make me forgive them.
hybridial said:
where do you get this no A.I in Dark Souls thing from? It's about as good as the enemies in Ninja Gaiden, flail attacks at you for you to dodge (or hit you with homing sorceries if your in the Shrine of f***ing Amana). I mean, I like NG but I wouldn't say the enemy A.I is particularly strong, slash/dodge/slash the whole game yo. Not really sure why you think the enemy A.I is so good, could you reference a bit? Cos from Dark Souls 1 we have the Black Knights with their multiple attack patterns, the Dragon with it's AoE if it sees you, those Archers on the parapets, Ornstein and Smough's changing attack patterns based on who you beat first, the boars that charge you, Blighttown's just... Blighttown.I dunno dude, I mean you're not wrong that it stops being brutally hard once you learn the system but it's not like every enemy has the exact same patterns, still needs you to pay attention to fight them properly.
Given my limited experience so far, I'd say that you do have to make a small trek to boss fights in general after opening a shortcut to it (much of the world is interconnected a la Dark Souls 1 instead of a continuous linear progression like Dark Souls 2), but that it's not particularly difficult to reach the boss fights. You'll probably have more frustrations with loading times, which are unfortunately rather terrible (30-40 secs per death) than the minute or two it takes to just bolt to a boss.Danbo Jambo said:
Basically, being less experienced or dying to a boss multiple times is going to test one's patience quite a bit. I'm not having a difficult time with the game but that's based on experience with all the Souls games. Really hoping they actually find a way to shorten up the load times by a patch or something.
Thanks.Solaire of Astora said:
As unimportant as it may seem to some people, things like that can really impact on how much I enjoy a game. I remember the loading times in Final Fantasy 8 being the main reason I stopped playing.
Here's hoping it gets sorted.
I have never had the chance to finish Demon's Souls or play either Dark Souls game, so I'm probably going to pass on Bloodborne until I manage those, or if it gets really cheap in a year or so. I had to stop playing Demon's Souls because I couldn't pause the game and with a toddler running around the likelihood of me needing to just drop the controller to respond to something he is doing is very very high.
I feel that the enemies have no situational awareness and just stand there till you aggro them, and they will walk off a cliff to their death if there's a gap in between. They tend to throw out attacks with no real pattern. This can take a person by surprise sure, but outside of the mindless zombies you expect that from, it's very one note. Most of your examples are enemy placements, not examples of enemy AI. The archers are annoying because of where they're placed, same with the dartblowers in Blighttown. But engaging any enemy comes down to making them attack and then just attacking back when they're on recovery. I guess the best example might be when you use ranged attacks of your own against a ranged enemy: they make no attempt whatsoever to dodge.CaptainMarvelous said:
I dunno dude, I mean you're not wrong that it stops being brutally hard once you learn the system but it's not like every enemy has the exact same patterns, still needs you to pay attention to fight them properly.
That is not the case in Ninja Gaiden, where your ranged weapons will be actively dodged by most enemies.
Of course, in the end, I also find one game fun and one game tedious, and I don't understand the appeal of it at all after pretty much suffering through two games of it. (My unfortunate luck to know some bloody minded people and be as bloody minded myself). I'm going to pass on a third I think.
I agree that they do have mindless zombie aggro-off-cliffs stuff going on but that's kinda the theme so I'd excuse it for plot even if you're right that it can be detrimental to the combat (though I'd add not everyone follows this pattern, it is present for a LOT of them, the trolls in Blighttown most famously). I do dispute the lack of patterns though, learning how opponents attack to find an opening (barring the most minor of hollows) is integral to making the game easier. Backstab fishing is all well and good, but it still relies on knowing when to move. Also legit point that it's more about placement but that's kinda how they make it challenging once we've reached the point of being able to backstab everything. Narrow beams with the Painting Guardians and the thin parapet with the archers are about you VS the terrain as much as you vs the enemies.hybridial said:
Plus, y'know, half the point of Dark Souls is that if you find the enemies too easy there's always other players.
I can respect we have different opinions on this, and I'm in no way going to claim NG isn't fun (I did enjoy it), but I'm not overly fond of its AI. Plus, kinda ironically, from what I've seen Bloodborne looks more like NG than Dark Souls combat-wise. All about dat dash and slash.
The oblique narrative is still in the same general state. Possibly moreso, as you don't get the starter bell quest even to go on, you just get told to go forth and hunt Beasts (bosses) and see what happens. Items seem to be rarer, so that style of narrative cuts back a lot as well, and the loading screen (which you'll become very sick of) doesn't have the random lore/item tidbits to pull you in either.NinjaTank56 said:
Granted, its possible the story kicks in farther on then the hour or so I went.
Question:
Is it like Dark Souls?
Sounds dumb, but I haven't finished Dark Souls. I got incredibly frustrated when the skeletons were talking out 1/3 of my health with a few slashes while it took me 10 to kill them. (It was in the first graveyard with like mission 2).
I'm thinking of trying again on that, but if Bloodborne has something extremely different or unique about it with a massive twist away from Dark Souls, I might just pick it up.
Is it like Dark Souls?
Sounds dumb, but I haven't finished Dark Souls. I got incredibly frustrated when the skeletons were talking out 1/3 of my health with a few slashes while it took me 10 to kill them. (It was in the first graveyard with like mission 2).
I'm thinking of trying again on that, but if Bloodborne has something extremely different or unique about it with a massive twist away from Dark Souls, I might just pick it up.