So Bloodborne

[hybridial]

Health and Stamina, STR or DEX Melee. That is all you will be running unless you want to gimp yourself. But we wouldn't want to gimp ourselves now would we? Yeah you can't cheese the game but variety is dead from the word go.

And that is why I'm going to pass on the game. The combat isn't up to par with the combat games I've preferred in the past (Ninja Gaiden Black, Onimusha, God Hand) and they've essentially given up on trying to make things more interesting than making a straight combat game.

I suppose the issue is that the series was always this bastard child between RPGs and action combat games, and was always unable to live up to either. It can't live up to the latter without a total change in engine.

 

[Mangue Surfer]

The only game that make me think in the PS4. Is the Bayonetta 2 karma coming back to me.

 

[Hugga_Bear]

No other series has given me the same tight, bare-bones, a little goofy but utterly engrossing combat without the useless flab and shallow sparkle of a thousand other modern melee combat engines.

Oh, you mean that combat engine that has you use the same three attack animations to kill everything in the game?

My mind is made up. I beat Dark Souls 1 and 2. I guess I don't "get it" because I felt 2 was objectively better thanks to online code that worked, visuals that were inherently more impressive across the board and some fixes to the RPG systems that definitely made sense.

It still didn't mean it was good. It was still essentially a reskin of an already flawed game.

They aren't good to me. And Bloodborne won't be either. I guess I'm just amused at all the nonsense on the internet of people pretending it's the second coming.

Is it the animations that are bothering you? You only use 3 animations? You know you can do way better than that right?
In Dark Souls 2 one of my favourite and most successful classes was a 'weapons master', he used a falchion off hand, estoc on hand primarily and switched between 2-handing the estoc, dual wield stancing the two weapons and no stance to allow for the parry and fast jabs. Had a dagger on swap (thieves' I think?) for the damage to riposte over the estoc and used all 3 types of throwing knives to pretty slick effect.

3 attack animations there? No, dozen+ and not because I was being silly, like I said it was one of my more dangerous builds, won a lot of PvP with that guy and once I got good at parrying it became extremely dangerous. Of course sometimes I got confused by my weapon style/stance swapping and got myself killed but that was part of the fun. When I pulled it off I felt untouchable, must have been weird to fight.

Anyway, point is I don't think I've ever used a class that just had 3 attack animations, do you only use R1? Why not make your life a little easier and switch it up a bit. It might be a little harder to get hold of the skill required to swap between attacks and such but it works to good effect, different attacks have different arcs, swing times, damage types and damage ranges. Knowing how to mix it up makes you a far better player.

I agree that those aspects of DS2 were improved but I don't see how that makes it objectively better, the level design was worse in my opinion, looser and less concise and it skipped out on the fun of the tight interconnected world that DS1 had in buckets. Similarly DS1's enemies were a little fairer, the ridiculous on the spot rotation of DS2's enemies was there as a shoddy counterbalance to the occasional back-stab circling shenanigans which made a lot of things silly, similarly the dodge mechanic was a little worse, requiring different and "odd feeling" timing sometimes.

Hyperbole aside (has anyone seriously referenced it as the "second coming" without joking?) it's an extremely good game, I'm sorry if you can't see that but hey, I think RE4 sucks and that puts me in the minority. Don't be disheartened by your disagreement, just be ready to look at the evidence. I have yet to be shown why I'm wrong about RE4 but if someone could demonstrate to me why it's good I'd drop my dislike of it in a heartbeat, the sign of a good mind is flexibility, if someone could answer all your criticisms of Bloodborne and show you how fun it is, I hope you embrace that rather than spitefully refusing to enjoy yourself.

 

[TristanBelmont]

It's the best 3D CastleVania!

No but in all seriousness, I prefer that it's faster paced, and I like the monster-hunting aesthetic. Makes me think of what The Order was trying but...y'know......better actually good.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

But that's what I hate about Bloodborne, the one play style. There's no variation. You either run STR or DEX now. Sure shields are gone but armor is basically useless too. The first armor you're able to find replaces your starter and there's very little reason to change that out. And since guns are useless for anything besides the parry mechanic why use them for combat, especially since you have a smaller ammo pool. Since spells aren't in the game along with the fact that anything arcane based takes forever to get a hold of, why try to run that UNLESS you want to gimp yourself.

Health and Stamina, STR or DEX Melee. That is all you will be running unless you want to gimp yourself. But we wouldn't want to gimp ourselves now would we? Yeah you can't cheese the game but variety is dead from the word go.

Everyone completely blows the playstyle variation of the Souls games out of the water. You really just had melee and magic. Due to DEX characters being able to block pretty much everything, both DEX and STR characters played the same, block then attack. The only difference was which weapon you wanted to use, which would fall on the same spectrum from fastest with lowest damage per hit to slowest with highest damage per hit (exactly like Bloodborne). I even bet the DPS ended up being the same. I could play a DEX character like a standard fighter/warrior, which I shouldn't be able to do. There wasn't a playstyle for me as I wanted to be a standard rogue but that wasn't really allowed (there was no stealth option, I didn't have traps, etc.), I was merely a melee fighter using quick weapons instead of slow weapons. And magic was very underwhelming compared to other games as there were few spells that did other things than just damage. Bloodborne does the one playstyle just far better than the Souls games and magic being gone isn't a big deal because of how underwhelming it was anyways. Just like how I don't care that there's no bow and arrow as the controls for it were clunky in Dark Souls and all it did was break the game, it would probably be just the same if it was in Bloodborne.

 

[jhoroz]

Man fuck the person who thought Rom the Spider was a good idea for a boss. The only underwhelming boss so far in the game.

 

[MerlinCross]

But that's what I hate about Bloodborne, the one play style. There's no variation. You either run STR or DEX now. Sure shields are gone but armor is basically useless too. The first armor you're able to find replaces your starter and there's very little reason to change that out. And since guns are useless for anything besides the parry mechanic why use them for combat, especially since you have a smaller ammo pool. Since spells aren't in the game along with the fact that anything arcane based takes forever to get a hold of, why try to run that UNLESS you want to gimp yourself.

Health and Stamina, STR or DEX Melee. That is all you will be running unless you want to gimp yourself. But we wouldn't want to gimp ourselves now would we? Yeah you can't cheese the game but variety is dead from the word go.

Everyone completely blows the playstyle variation of the Souls games out of the water. You really just had melee and magic. Due to DEX characters being able to block pretty much everything, both DEX and STR characters played the same, block then attack. The only difference was which weapon you wanted to use, which would fall on the same spectrum from fastest with lowest damage per hit to slowest with highest damage per hit (exactly like Bloodborne). I even bet the DPS ended up being the same. I could play a DEX character like a standard fighter/warrior, which I shouldn't be able to do. There wasn't a playstyle for me as I wanted to be a standard rogue but that wasn't really allowed (there was no stealth option, I didn't have traps, etc.), I was merely a melee fighter using quick weapons instead of slow weapons. And magic was very underwhelming compared to other games as there were few spells that did other things than just damage. Bloodborne does the one playstyle just far better than the Souls games and magic being gone isn't a big deal because of how underwhelming it was anyways. Just like how I don't care that there's no bow and arrow as the controls for it were clunky in Dark Souls and all it did was break the game, it would probably be just the same if it was in Bloodborne.

Well glad you like the single mode gameplay. I just expected more. You say that there were only two builds. Good news for you then, there is now only one. In a game that tries to be fast pace but the player hanlding isn't made for that type for gameplay. Espically when you run into enemies that have no problem spaming range attacks while dodging.

Was expecting some variety but there is simply none to be had here. Unless you want to gimp yourself.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Well glad you like the single mode gameplay. I just expected more. You say that there were only two builds. Good news for you then, there is now only one. In a game that tries to be fast pace but the player hanlding isn't made for that type for gameplay. Espically when you run into enemies that have no problem spaming range attacks while dodging.

Was expecting some variety but there is simply none to be had here. Unless you want to gimp yourself.

My point is that there is basically the same variety as magic was underwhelming/cheap in the Souls games (I can see why people would use magic but I can't see it being satisfying though) and you basically had a choice between slow hard-hitting weapons or fast quick-hitting weapons, which is exactly what Bloodborne is allowing for as well. The dodge is much better in Bloodborne so it's better than the no-shield playstyle of Souls. You're really just out of luck if you want to shield. Bayonetta has more playstyles than a Souls game as the different accessories and weapons changes gameplay more than everything the Souls games allowed for. Most Souls players completely over exaggerate the "depth" of the games.

 

[hybridial]

Oh boy, this has some fun stuff for me to respond to.

Is it the animations that are bothering you? You only use 3 animations? You know you can do way better than that right?
In Dark Souls 2 one of my favourite and most successful classes was a 'weapons master', he used a falchion off hand, estoc on hand primarily and switched between 2-handing the estoc, dual wield stancing the two weapons and no stance to allow for the parry and fast jabs. Had a dagger on swap (thieves' I think?) for the damage to riposte over the estoc and used all 3 types of throwing knives to pretty slick effect.

3 attack animations there? No, dozen+ and not because I was being silly, like I said it was one of my more dangerous builds, won a lot of PvP with that guy and once I got good at parrying it became extremely dangerous. Of course sometimes I got confused by my weapon style/stance swapping and got myself killed but that was part of the fun. When I pulled it off I felt untouchable, must have been weird to fight.

Anyway, point is I don't think I've ever used a class that just had 3 attack animations, do you only use R1? Why not make your life a little easier and switch it up a bit. It might be a little harder to get hold of the skill required to swap between attacks and such but it works to good effect, different attacks have different arcs, swing times, damage types and damage ranges. Knowing how to mix it up makes you a far better player.

Basically, I acknowledge what I said was hyperbole but I had a reason to say it. Compared to the game that keeps coming up here as the game I would much rather play than Bloodborne any day of the week, Ninja Gaiden Black (or Sigma or whatever version), the Souls games have very few attack animations. They also don't really encourage use of multiple weapons either due to the investment needed to upgrade them. I beat the game with broad sword, mace and bow. Pretty basic stuff, most enemies were killed using the same few attacks.

I agree that those aspects of DS2 were improved but I don't see how that makes it objectively better, the level design was worse in my opinion, looser and less concise and it skipped out on the fun of the tight interconnected world that DS1 had in buckets. Similarly DS1's enemies were a little fairer, the ridiculous on the spot rotation of DS2's enemies was there as a shoddy counterbalance to the occasional back-stab circling shenanigans which made a lot of things silly, similarly the dodge mechanic was a little worse, requiring different and "odd feeling" timing sometimes.

It makes it objectively better because those aspects are objectively better and can't be argued as such. Everything else about the game is subjective. I see II's level design as merely different, not inferior.

Hyperbole aside (has anyone seriously referenced it as the "second coming" without joking?) it's an extremely good game, I'm sorry if you can't see that but hey, I think RE4 sucks and that puts me in the minority. Don't be disheartened by your disagreement, just be ready to look at the evidence. I have yet to be shown why I'm wrong about RE4 but if someone could demonstrate to me why it's good I'd drop my dislike of it in a heartbeat, the sign of a good mind is flexibility, if someone could answer all your criticisms of Bloodborne and show you how fun it is, I hope you embrace that rather than spitefully refusing to enjoy yourself.

You're speaking to a guy who despises RE4 for ruining one of his favourite series, for whom Resident Evil Remake is the second greatest game ever made. Might wanna try someone else with that

 

[Hugga_Bear]

Oh boy, this has some fun stuff for me to respo

Basically, I acknowledge what I said was hyperbole but I had a reason to say it. Compared to the game that keeps coming up here as the game I would much rather play than Bloodborne any day of the week, Ninja Gaiden Black (or Sigma or whatever version), the Souls games have very few attack animations. They also don't really encourage use of multiple weapons either due to the investment needed to upgrade them. I beat the game with broad sword, mace and bow. Pretty basic stuff, most enemies were killed using the same few attacks.

It makes it objectively better because those aspects are objectively better and can't be argued as such. Everything else about the game is subjective. I see II's level design as merely different, not inferior.

You're speaking to a guy who despises RE4 for ruining one of his favourite series, for whom Resident Evil Remake is the second greatest game ever made. Might wanna try someone else with that

'sigh'. I have to go play Ninja Gaiden don't I? Gods be damned.

I agree with the upgrade requirements, I think the upgrading system was pretty poor since I never found an opportunity to incrementally improve my gear throughout the game, main weapon/s go up to ~+4, then usually skip on through to +10 having found some chunks/large shards. Endgame you might end up farming for upgrade materials which sucks (mostly twinkling to try out all the weapons), especially when me and my friends were testing builds and weapon ideas, we bought DS2 at release and wanted to be amongst the pioneers. Annoyingly the weapons change enough when fully upgraded that we needed to upgrade everything to 'get it'.

I don't think that makes a game objectively better, it makes some aspects of it better but the whole thing is still different enough. This isn't a remaster with improved graphics and secure network connections, the game as a whole has changed enough that to claim objective superiority over a few features is a grand claim.

Ah well, maybe someday I'll find someone to convince me that RE4 is awesome sauce. It doesn't matter if you hate it or love it though, the point I was trying to make is that we should always be up for changing our mind on everything, games included.

 

[hybridial]

Hey, if it appeases you, I mean it in the sense that DSII is "technically" superior.

But technicalities are not the heart and soul of a product, and I have no real problem of people saying they feel the first game is better. I don't agree with them because I simply don't see whatever it is they see, and I was merely responding to a comment.

 

[MerlinCross]

My point is that there is basically the same variety as magic was underwhelming/cheap in the Souls games (I can see why people would use magic but I can't see it being satisfying though) and you basically had a choice between slow hard-hitting weapons or fast quick-hitting weapons, which is exactly what Bloodborne is allowing for as well. The dodge is much better in Bloodborne so it's better than the no-shield playstyle of Souls. You're really just out of luck if you want to shield. Bayonetta has more playstyles than a Souls game as the different accessories and weapons changes gameplay more than everything the Souls games allowed for. Most Souls players completely over exaggerate the "depth" of the games.

I don't mind the lack of shield if the rest of the game made up for it. It doesn't. Dodge being better is countered by the enemy having more combos, sweeps, and larger hit boxes(We're talking Dark Souls 2 hitboxes). And you can't make a defense build since as you mentioned, there is no shield now, and armor is basically worthless as most armors aren't much better than one you find early. Because of this the game is very risk reward melee, but the PC doesn't control well enough for that kind of gameplay.

Sure people over exaggerate the depth mainly because it falls into 2 broad catagories and then can be broken down/expanded on. Yes I do melee but do I do pure melee, or do I run a bleed build? Maybe a STR/Faith build this time. I know, I'll try a Hex build with a spear. Or just do a silly build like duel lances. If you look at it yes the depth is pretty small. Like a Kiddy pool. Bloodborne's depth is that of a puddle though.

You cannot run a build that uses the gun because it wasn't designed to be used as such. You cannot run an Arcane build because by the time you find things that run off the stat, you've probably put points into other stats you KEEP YOU ALIVE. And only 1 weapon at the start uses Dex.

You will be gimping yourself if you do anything besides a STR build with points into Health and Stamina. You need STR for the damage, you need HP for when the dodging fails, and you need Stamina in order to stop the dodging from failing. You get 1 build, so enjoy it.

 

[lassiie]

But that's what I hate about Bloodborne, the one play style. There's no variation. You either run STR or DEX now. Sure shields are gone but armor is basically useless too. The first armor you're able to find replaces your starter and there's very little reason to change that out. And since guns are useless for anything besides the parry mechanic why use them for combat, especially since you have a smaller ammo pool. Since spells aren't in the game along with the fact that anything arcane based takes forever to get a hold of, why try to run that UNLESS you want to gimp yourself.

Health and Stamina, STR or DEX Melee. That is all you will be running unless you want to gimp yourself. But we wouldn't want to gimp ourselves now would we? Yeah you can't cheese the game but variety is dead from the word go.

Everyone completely blows the playstyle variation of the Souls games out of the water. You really just had melee and magic. Due to DEX characters being able to block pretty much everything, both DEX and STR characters played the same, block then attack. The only difference was which weapon you wanted to use, which would fall on the same spectrum from fastest with lowest damage per hit to slowest with highest damage per hit (exactly like Bloodborne). I even bet the DPS ended up being the same. I could play a DEX character like a standard fighter/warrior, which I shouldn't be able to do. There wasn't a playstyle for me as I wanted to be a standard rogue but that wasn't really allowed (there was no stealth option, I didn't have traps, etc.), I was merely a melee fighter using quick weapons instead of slow weapons. And magic was very underwhelming compared to other games as there were few spells that did other things than just damage. Bloodborne does the one playstyle just far better than the Souls games and magic being gone isn't a big deal because of how underwhelming it was anyways. Just like how I don't care that there's no bow and arrow as the controls for it were clunky in Dark Souls and all it did was break the game, it would probably be just the same if it was in Bloodborne.

Ummmm What? Now I am convinced you haven't played the Souls series because Dex was probably the least used stat in PvP. Dex scaled worse with its weapons thatn Str, so there really was no reason not to be a Str character. I personally played Dex just for the Katanas, but those sucked in DS2.

Magic was UNDERWHELMING???? Are you high? Seriously. Magic made this game a joke. Sorceries pyromancies were primary damage dealers, miracles were primarily healing and buffing. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Man fuck the person who thought Rom the Spider was a good idea for a boss. The only underwhelming boss so far in the game.

I agree. You know what my strategy was for that boss? Run up, smack it , run away. Fuck the little spiders. Every other time i tried to take out the little guys i died. It took 17 fucking health potions

 

[Fappy]

Man fuck the person who thought Rom the Spider was a good idea for a boss. The only underwhelming boss so far in the game.

I agree. You know what my strategy was for that boss? Run up, smack it , run away. Fuck the little spiders. Every other time i tried to take out the little guys i died. It took 17 fucking health potions

He is pretty tough solo but hilariously easy coop.

There are few other bosses I found more obnoxious, but then none of the bosses come close to level of cheesy BS that are the npc hunters.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

So now that I've had a night to mull over what I think of this game after finishing it...

I'm not sure where I would rank it among From's Souls-style games. It's very good, but I don't know how much time I'll spend on it compared to Dark Souls 2. It has its own share of technical issues that seem to mar just about every From Software game. Some of which are enough to noticeably detract from my enjoyment.

I wish there was more variation in the outfits you can get. I don't so much mind that they're all kind of interchangeable for different situations and you can use the first hunter outfit you find for most if not all of the game with little problems. But I felt that the excitement of finding these cool and powerful sets of armor was pretty much gone.

The game itself just looks adequate visually, but luckily From always gets art direction and world design down quite well if not perfectly. Castlevania and the Souls series are some of my favorite series of video games, and Bloodborne feels like a blend of the art direction and theming of Castlevania (if it were much more gory and disturbing) with the general gameplay of a Souls game. So yeah, I greatly enjoyed my time with it. But I can't exactly say it lived up to the massive hype train.

That said, it probably came pretty damn close. And I do want too play NG+, so I guess that means something.

Also, fuck eyeballs. There are way too many eyeballs everywhere.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

I wish I could find a way to convert PS4 share videos into gifs/webms. I was doing some bro-op against the third boss (at least I think) and after his transformation his original form simply stayed there whilst his second form ran about. The game acted like I was fighting against two enemies, so I could just attack the motionless original-form without any reprecussions and it counted against the boss' health. Then to my amazement he simply started floating away, and when we defeated the boss he was a mere glimmer floating in the sky.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Man fuck the person who thought Rom the Spider was a good idea for a boss. The only underwhelming boss so far in the game.

I don't know, I've been working my way through the first Chalice Dungeon and one of the bosses I got (are bosses randomized too?) was just three big guys with slightly larger health. Beat it in one try whilst using about 3 vials. It felt way too much like a DaS2 boss.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

Man fuck the person who thought Rom the Spider was a good idea for a boss. The only underwhelming boss so far in the game.

I don't know, I've been working my way through the first Chalice Dungeon and one of the bosses I got (are bosses randomized too?) was just three big guys with slightly larger health. Beat it in one try whilst using about 3 vials. It felt way too much like a DaS2 boss.

Chalice Dungeon bosses are all randomized. I'm unsure about how varied the layouts can become, since I only ever did the very first one I created from the chalice I gained from the Blood-starved Beast. I had those guys too in one of my floors and was rather far in the game at that point for that dungeon's difficulty, so I just spin2win'd and one or two-shotted them.

Felt nice.