So Bloodborne

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I don't mind the lack of shield if the rest of the game made up for it. It doesn't. Dodge being better is countered by the enemy having more combos, sweeps, and larger hit boxes(We're talking Dark Souls 2 hitboxes). And you can't make a defense build since as you mentioned, there is no shield now, and armor is basically worthless as most armors aren't much better than one you find early. Because of this the game is very risk reward melee, but the PC doesn't control well enough for that kind of gameplay.

Sure people over exaggerate the depth mainly because it falls into 2 broad catagories and then can be broken down/expanded on. Yes I do melee but do I do pure melee, or do I run a bleed build? Maybe a STR/Faith build this time. I know, I'll try a Hex build with a spear. Or just do a silly build like duel lances. If you look at it yes the depth is pretty small. Like a Kiddy pool. Bloodborne's depth is that of a puddle though.

You cannot run a build that uses the gun because it wasn't designed to be used as such. You cannot run an Arcane build because by the time you find things that run off the stat, you've probably put points into other stats you KEEP YOU ALIVE. And only 1 weapon at the start uses Dex.

You will be gimping yourself if you do anything besides a STR build with points into Health and Stamina. You need STR for the damage, you need HP for when the dodging fails, and you need Stamina in order to stop the dodging from failing. You get 1 build, so enjoy it.

I like the faster pace of the gameplay, it still is much slower than like a spectacle fighter though. I didn't think the PC controlled that well in the previous games either. I think Bloodborne's controls are better than the Souls games as the main issue was actually the shield controls IMO. I'm no expert on Bloodborne yet (I'm still pretty early in the game) but isn't it kinda similar where you have one broad style that can be broken down as well? I was actually just looking through the different weapons on my phone well at my uncle's fake Easter (as they are going on vacation next weekend) to see what weapons I have to look forward to and the Chikage seems pretty interesting where it'll scale with Bloodtinge and deal blood damage. Isn't that similar to say your bleed build? I was reading that if you put an element on your weapon, it'll scale with Arcana. There's already more weapons that I've got in Bloodborne that interest me than really all the weapons in Dark Souls. I really never play a STR build in any game from DnD to Dark Souls but the hammer in Bloodborne kinda interests me (and I love the axe's heavy attack where it puts the enemy on the ground) and I wanna try it out. I put my points in Skill since it's basically DEX and I started putting some points into STR because those weapons seem cool as well when I almost never even like that kind of stuff. I think there's a good amount more to Bloodborne than you're giving it credit for.

Ummmm What? Now I am convinced you haven't played the Souls series because Dex was probably the least used stat in PvP. Dex scaled worse with its weapons thatn Str, so there really was no reason not to be a Str character. I personally played Dex just for the Katanas, but those sucked in DS2.

Magic was UNDERWHELMING???? Are you high? Seriously. Magic made this game a joke. Sorceries pyromancies were primary damage dealers, miracles were primarily healing and buffing. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

Check my trophies if you don't believe, I beat Dark Souls. I didn't PvP in Dark Souls and I mained the Iaito and it was pretty badass, I got it to +15 with my high ass DEX. To me, there was little reason to play a STR character due to a DEX character's shields being way too good than they should've been. I really didn't care to be playing the most optimized build or anything, I played what I liked the most as that other katana I think was slightly better but I like the Iaito's moveset slightly more.

I meant magic was underwhelming in satisfaction, not in usefulness or damage ability. It was cheap and easy plus there wasn't that much variance in spells (mainly damage spells) and the spells graphically were nothing that good either.

 

[MerlinCross]

I like the faster pace of the gameplay, it still is much slower than like a spectacle fighter though. I didn't think the PC controlled that well in the previous games either. I think Bloodborne's controls are better than the Souls games as the main issue was actually the shield controls IMO. I'm no expert on Bloodborne yet (I'm still pretty early in the game) but isn't it kinda similar where you have one broad style that can be broken down as well? I was actually just looking through the different weapons on my phone well at my uncle's fake Easter (as they are going on vacation next weekend) to see what weapons I have to look forward to and the Chikage seems pretty interesting where it'll scale with Bloodtinge and deal blood damage. Isn't that similar to say your bleed build? I was reading that if you put an element on your weapon, it'll scale with Arcana. There's already more weapons that I've got in Bloodborne that interest me than really all the weapons in Dark Souls. I really never play a STR build in any game from DnD to Dark Souls but the hammer in Bloodborne kinda interests me (and I love the axe's heavy attack where it puts the enemy on the ground) and I wanna try it out. I put my points in Skill since it's basically DEX and I started putting some points into STR because those weapons seem cool as well when I almost never even like that kind of stuff. I think there's a good amount more to Bloodborne than you're giving it credit for.

The PC controls better than the other games yes. But due to the slow pace of the Souls games, it fit/felt right. In Bloodborne the PC controls halfway between the old way and say a spectacle fighter. So it feels clunky and slow when all the monsters are a speed or two higher than you(with htibox issues, 4 games and counting).

There is no board style to Bloodborne, it's use these weapons and use STR, or DEX. Hell not even that, just the bloodly weapons. Seems upgrading the weapons have a much higher impact than other games so just make a HP+Stamina build the game demands of you. So you're going to probably focus your time especially early into upgrading 1 weapon where as the Souls games had better scaling off stats. And hell, already found 2 variations of weapons.

And I mentioned that by the time you get to Arcane based things, you will have probably put points into the needed stats to KEEP YOU ALIVE. Which is HP+Stamina+Combat Stat of your choice that probably isn't Arcane. Dark Souls you could start with magic, you can't here. Heck that should have been a warning sign that all the 'classes' start with bloodly same armor that should be traded out of as soon as possible.

There is less variety in Bloodborne. And even if you don't want to give me that, there is less variety in Armor within this game. And why should armor be of use since the game is so fast paced, risk reward, dodge happy. Course that means you should pump up your HP and Stamina to compensate...oh wait we're back to the "you need to build this way" thing again. Whoops.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The PC controls better than the other games yes. But due to the slow pace of the Souls games, it fit/felt right. In Bloodborne the PC controls halfway between the old way and say a spectacle fighter. So it feels clunky and slow when all the monsters are a speed or two higher than you(with htibox issues, 4 games and counting).

There is no board style to Bloodborne, it's use these weapons and use STR, or DEX. Hell not even that, just the bloodly weapons. Seems upgrading the weapons have a much higher impact than other games so just make a HP+Stamina build the game demands of you. So you're going to probably focus your time especially early into upgrading 1 weapon where as the Souls games had better scaling off stats. And hell, already found 2 variations of weapons.

And I mentioned that by the time you get to Arcane based things, you will have probably put points into the needed stats to KEEP YOU ALIVE. Which is HP+Stamina+Combat Stat of your choice that probably isn't Arcane. Dark Souls you could start with magic, you can't here. Heck that should have been a warning sign that all the 'classes' start with bloodly same armor that should be traded out of as soon as possible.

There is less variety in Bloodborne. And even if you don't want to give me that, there is less variety in Armor within this game. And why should armor be of use since the game is so fast paced, risk reward, dodge happy. Course that means you should pump up your HP and Stamina to compensate...oh wait we're back to the "you need to build this way" thing again. Whoops.

I feel like the, I guess, Souls' controls work best with this hunter playstyle than the Souls' playstyles. I like games having really strong core gameplay and I feel Bloodborne has the best core gameplay. The Souls games obviously allowed for more things like shielding, magic, bow and arrow, etc. but I feel like the games did that stuff just OK so it was more of a jack-of-all-trades game whereas Bloodborne just focuses on one thing and does that better than any one thing in the Souls games. I really do dig the weapons a lot more in Bloodborne and I want give quite a few of them a good long try whereas I never really had that in Dark Souls so to me, there is more variation if that makes sense.

Character building could be overly simple in Dark Souls as well (it is the only one I played though) since you could really just put points into Vit & End as you could put a element on your weapon thereby making it no longer scale with a stat thus not needing STR or DEX outside of the weapon's requirement to use. That was actually the best way to play Dark Souls when it came out until the patch a couple months later where weapon scaling was much better. There was a lot of the kind of stuff going on in Dark Souls, which had rather poor RPG mechanics so Bloodborne is better for being simpler and basically removing that thereby not allowing From to fuck up so much. I probably will agree that armor could've been much more interesting though (again, I'm not far at all) where there could be armor giving you special properties or abilities or effects or something.

 

[jhoroz]

Man fuck the person who thought Rom the Spider was a good idea for a boss. The only underwhelming boss so far in the game.

I don't know, I've been working my way through the first Chalice Dungeon and one of the bosses I got (are bosses randomized too?) was just three big guys with slightly larger health. Beat it in one try whilst using about 3 vials. It felt way too much like a DaS2 boss.

Eh they weren't so bad and I chalk up their lack of originality due to it being a Chalice Dungeon boss. You can literally just bait them into walk into stone column and just hit them with the threaded cane whip. Multiple bosses at once can be done right (e.g. Shadows of Yarnham) but Rom and the ones in DS2 are examples of how to make it the most horrible experience ever.

 

[Johnny Impact]

Dark Souls = awesome
Another game from same company = probably awesome
Buying a PS4 = not gonna happen

I hear Bloodborne is super good. Until/unless PC version, do not care.

 

[Phasmal]

I've not had much time to play Bloodborne because of work, but I've finally managed to sit down and have a bit of a go.
Took the saw cleaver and managed to beat the Cleric Beast first time round, and I've just found Father Gasgoine. He's killed me once in his second phase (he was manageable up until then), so I'll have another crack at him later.

Boyfriend is already on New Game plus, but he's one of those insufferable no-lifers and hammered the game out pretty quickly after it came out.

Overall, though, I'm having a lot of fun. The atmosphere is that lovely Souls-y bleak and I still get great satisfaction from working out where I'm supposed to be and finding shortcuts. And I'm not dying very much, so there's that.

Although I do keep parrying and then jumping back because I think I've timed it wrong, which irritates me.

EDIT: Had another little go, turns out second time was the charm with the second boss. If this pattern holds I'll get the third boss on the third go, not up to there yet though.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Just finished the Forbidden Forest. All I have to say can be summed up in a Youtube video:

Spoiler

 

[MerlinCross]

I feel like the, I guess, Souls' controls work best with this hunter playstyle than the Souls' playstyles. I like games having really strong core gameplay and I feel Bloodborne has the best core gameplay. The Souls games obviously allowed for more things like shielding, magic, bow and arrow, etc. but I feel like the games did that stuff just OK so it was more of a jack-of-all-trades game whereas Bloodborne just focuses on one thing and does that better than any one thing in the Souls games. I really do dig the weapons a lot more in Bloodborne and I want give quite a few of them a good long try whereas I never really had that in Dark Souls so to me, there is more variation if that makes sense.

Character building could be overly simple in Dark Souls as well (it is the only one I played though) since you could really just put points into Vit & End as you could put a element on your weapon thereby making it no longer scale with a stat thus not needing STR or DEX outside of the weapon's requirement to use. That was actually the best way to play Dark Souls when it came out until the patch a couple months later where weapon scaling was much better. There was a lot of the kind of stuff going on in Dark Souls, which had rather poor RPG mechanics so Bloodborne is better for being simpler and basically removing that thereby not allowing From to fuck up so much. I probably will agree that armor could've been much more interesting though (again, I'm not far at all) where there could be armor giving you special properties or abilities or effects or something.

I feel the controls to be clunky. Like it's one part Dark Souls, one part spectacle fighter where as the enemies are up to spectacle fighter levels. To me this becomes pretty clear when fight other hunters. Not other players, other AI controlled hunters. They seem to move a speed grade or two higher than you and it shows. They also have no problem spamming infinite bullets your way either long with being able to counter your(you will hate any hunter that uses a shotgun)

I'm glad you agree the RPG elements are bad, so why should they still be in the game? There's very little sense of progression. I never feel like my character is improving like I did in the Dark Souls games. There's no sense of your character getting better because the combat is more 'skill' than 'numbers'. YOU have to get better at the system, but I've already covered my dislike of combat system compared to the Souls games.

It feels less is more, but there doesn't seem to be a more there. Feels like they cut a lot of fat off but forgot to replace it when it came time. Hope we don't get screwed over with DLC later.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I feel the controls to be clunky. Like it's one part Dark Souls, one part spectacle fighter where as the enemies are up to spectacle fighter levels. To me this becomes pretty clear when fight other hunters. Not other players, other AI controlled hunters. They seem to move a speed grade or two higher than you and it shows. They also have no problem spamming infinite bullets your way either long with being able to counter your(you will hate any hunter that uses a shotgun)

I'm glad you agree the RPG elements are bad, so why should they still be in the game? There's very little sense of progression. I never feel like my character is improving like I did in the Dark Souls games. There's no sense of your character getting better because the combat is more 'skill' than 'numbers'. YOU have to get better at the system, but I've already covered my dislike of combat system compared to the Souls games.

It feels less is more, but there doesn't seem to be a more there. Feels like they cut a lot of fat off but forgot to replace it when it came time. Hope we don't get screwed over with DLC later.

I think the main reason the controls are clunky is the dependency on a lock-on system, that pretty much became obsolete during the PS2/Xbox gen.

I felt there was very little progression in Dark Souls as well. All you did was level up your stats to do more damage by leveling STR/DEX and your weapon as well. You can't beat those skeletons in that first area just because you can't do enough damage (you can beat them but it takes forever). What excites me in RPGs when I level is getting new skills/abilities/powers/feats/etc.; that's what excites me about making builds and such. I don't really find leveling a stat to do more damage or get more health satisfying at all. Dark Souls also had a stat that did nothing while having fire magic not tied to a stat, that's some pretty bad RPG mechanics right there. I feel Bloodborne is better just due to it being simpler and From fucking up less.

 

[Spacewolf]

Just finished the Forbidden Forest. All I have to say can be summed up in a Youtube video:

Spoiler

I take it your talking about that Poison swamp with the giants as that's what's kicking me around at the moment as well.

Has anyone tried the Stake Driver? Seems like it should be an interesting weapon, just need to get my Str abit higher.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

I take it your talking about that Poison swamp with the giants as that's what's kicking me around at the moment as well.

No, I'm talking about the forest with the multi-headed snake monsters fucking everywhere. There are giant snakes, so maybe that's what you were meaning to imply.

 

[Spacewolf]

I take it your talking about that Poison swamp with the giants as that's what's kicking me around at the moment as well.

No, I'm talking about the forest with the multi-headed snake monsters fucking everywhere. There are giant snakes, so maybe that's what you were meaning to imply.

Nah I was talking about the bit in the forest were you can go down into a cave that has about three giants walking around in it and some snake looking things hiding in the poisonous water. Sounds like a different bit since there's no giant multiheaded snakes in there.

 

[Lufia Erim]

So far, appart from a vom the mother fucking argon ( from pokemon) spider , the only area the feels perticularly cheap is the unseen village(?). I was cool with the hunter shotgunning me of the ladder, i was okay with the one shot logtrap, fine with the instakill frenzy jumping spiders and meteor cast scorpion from moonside lake, but the ressurecting bell wielding witch and the mimics from hell are terrible. That entirezone feels cheap.

Or maybe i have too much insight i don't know.

Oh and crowdogs eek.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

So far, appart from a vom the mother fucking argon ( from pokemon) spider , the only area the feels perticularly cheap is the unseen village(?). I was cool with the hunter shotgunning me of the ladder, i was okay with the one shot logtrap, fine with the instakill frenzy jumping spiders and meteor cast scorpion from moonside lake, but the ressurecting bell wielding witch and the mimics from hell are terrible. That entirezone feels cheap.

Or maybe i have too much insight i don't know.

Oh and crowdogs eek.

Nah, I'd say the Unseen Village on your second trip there is probably the cheapest/worst area in the game in terms of difficulty as well. Powerful as hell enemies, three hunters to deal with, and those fucking...things that shoot blood at you as fast as a gunshot...that does most if not all of your health in damage.

I ended up rolling all the way to the boss room after sprinting past all of them and losing nearly all of my health getting smacked by blood shots, and somehow survived a good number of those enemies all firing blood at me simultaneously.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Well...I can say I have no freaking idea what is going on.

Okay, that's not entirely true. Since this is a Souls-style game, I knew what to do going in, so I have been paying very close attention to, well, everything. Item descriptions, notes, dialogue, even the freaking scenery. Still pretty lost, but I think I know the main point of what I'm trying to do now. Maybe? All I know is that I'm really looking forward to the lore and theory videos that will no doubt be coming out soon.

As for the gameplay, I'm loving it. So much faster, so much more attune to how I wanted to play Dark Souls games. I can jump in, hit, and then jump out of range as fast as I want to. Hopping around in a fight, dodging instead of blocking or taking hits, is so much more fun and it makes me feel so much more accomplished. I feel like this game relies more on my skills and reaction than the others.

I just killed Rom last night, and now I'm in the Unseen Village. Tried to explore it and I managed to get the first shortcut open, but then I came across all those crazy ladies that respawn because the Bell Maiden is somewhere, and to top it all off, that giant...thing shoots a laser at me. I took one look at that and went, "Nope. Done for the night."

 

[MerlinCross]

I feel Bloodborne is better just due to it being simpler and From fucking up less.

And I feel like they fucked up more because there's not as much to play around with. Options is the keyword, and Bloodborne has very little in the way of it. Everything was chipped away to make a melee focused game that doesn't control well enough for it in the first place.

But I suppose we're unable to go much further in this discussion since we've both made our stances. Don't get me wrong it's a good game, but I prefer it's older brothers, the Souls games to it.

Onto a different topic, I found some poison knifes and those kill the large guys in the Cathedral pretty well. Anyone have an idea of where to get more of these gems? The shop doesn't sell them(at least not now).

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

But I suppose we're unable to go much further in this discussion since we've both made our stances. Don't get me wrong it's a good game, but I prefer it's older brothers, the Souls games to it.

Yeah, I didn't really find any playstyle too satisfying in the Souls games; being defensive was too easy while the controls for being aggressive were worse than Bloodborne. I may end up agreeing that BB's controls are worse in the sense that they are worse for BB than DS's controls are for DS (but BB's controls are overall better) since I've only gotten past the 2nd boss so far as I've had pretty much no time to play as I barely had to time play over the weekend.

 

[Fappy]

I've not had much time to play Bloodborne because of work, but I've finally managed to sit down and have a bit of a go.
Took the saw cleaver and managed to beat the Cleric Beast first time round, and I've just found Father Gasgoine. He's killed me once in his second phase (he was manageable up until then), so I'll have another crack at him later.

Boyfriend is already on New Game plus, but he's one of those insufferable no-lifers and hammered the game out pretty quickly after it came out.

Overall, though, I'm having a lot of fun. The atmosphere is that lovely Souls-y bleak and I still get great satisfaction from working out where I'm supposed to be and finding shortcuts. And I'm not dying very much, so there's that.

Although I do keep parrying and then jumping back because I think I've timed it wrong, which irritates me.

EDIT: Had another little go, turns out second time was the charm with the second boss. If this pattern holds I'll get the third boss on the third go, not up to there yet though.

You beat Daddy G in two tries? Damn, it still took me three tries on my second character after beating the game with my first. Teach me your ways O.O

 

[joest01]

I think the main reason the controls are clunky is the dependency on a lock-on system, that pretty much became obsolete during the PS2/Xbox gen.

Haven't played bborne yet but I think you are comparing .souls to character action games here. And those rely on contained arena's with clearly defined camera angles. That would not really work in souls games that rely on exploration, right?

But glad to see people are enjoying it. If I could get over the killing animals aspect I might be more tempted to go out and get a ps4 for it. But as it stands I will jump on the GoW ascension deal on PSN and play that instead. At least the snakes there have titties

 

[Phasmal]

You beat Daddy G in two tries? Damn, it still took me three tries on my second character after beating the game with my first. Teach me your ways O.O

Spoiler: Oh Fappy, you sweet-talker!

Your post made me a lot happier about it, actually. I thought I wasn't doing too well, considering my boyfriend beat the first two bosses in the same life on his first try. He is `That Guy` when it comes to these types of games.

I've still not managed to have a good crack at the game, but I've just gotten to Old Yharnam- though I've been told (by `That Guy`) that I did something which means I can't get a certain gesture, so I may have to restart. I'll probably do that tomorrow. Oh well, nothing like karate-chopping a werewolf to death to start your day off.