So how do you feel about Margaret Thatcher's death

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Oh, the iron lady died. Well, she never did anything to my life and I haven't met anyone effected by her, so I don't give much of a toss.

 

[Mr F.]

--snip--

Dude...she ain't getting a state funeral. It's all private, according to her wishes.

Uh, have you read anything about this whatsoever?

She is getting a ceremonial funeral with full military honours, paid for partly by the state and partly by her estate. The procession will shut down London, PMQ's has been cancelled...

Yeah, sorry. You genuinely have no idea what you are talking about.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/11/thatcher-funeral-scotland-yard-threats

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/apr/10/how-much-margaret-thatcher-funeral-cost

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22079749

Read the news before accusing others of not having read the news mate. Seriously.

According to Lord Bell, Thatcher did not want to lie in state for the public to pay their respects, and she won't. But the highly visible involvement of military personnel in her funeral will mean that it will resemble a state funeral.

As well as the large numbers of armed forces already being drawn in to the ceremony, it's likely that given anti-Thatcher protests have already required riot police, considerable security enforcement will probably be needed. Some of the expense will be covered by the estate of Lady Thatcher, though the government is not forthcoming on the proportion and the size of Thatcher's estate remains a closely guarded secret.

Private funeral. Definitely. Totally innocuous affair.

 

[Timmey]

--snip--

Dude...she ain't getting a state funeral. It's all private, according to her wishes.

Uh, have you read anything about this whatsoever?

She is getting a ceremonial funeral with full military honours, paid for partly by the state and partly by her estate. The procession will shut down London, PMQ's has been cancelled...

Yeah, sorry. You genuinely have no idea what you are talking about.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/11/thatcher-funeral-scotland-yard-threats

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/apr/10/how-much-margaret-thatcher-funeral-cost

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22079749

Read the news before accusing others of not having read the news mate. Seriously.

According to Lord Bell, Thatcher did not want to lie in state for the public to pay their respects, and she won't. But the highly visible involvement of military personnel in her funeral will mean that it will resemble a state funeral.

As well as the large numbers of armed forces already being drawn in to the ceremony, it's likely that given anti-Thatcher protests have already required riot police, considerable security enforcement will probably be needed. Some of the expense will be covered by the estate of Lady Thatcher, though the government is not forthcoming on the proportion and the size of Thatcher's estate remains a closely guarded secret.

Private funeral. Definitely. Totally innocuous affair.

Not to mention the 10 million pound bill we are now paying. All in it together my left nut!

 

[Lethos]

What you know is your examples are bad ones because while it is implied she is hate filled etc, she is being criticized for her actions. So you've failed. And who gives a fuck if you claim that is a 'well accepted fact', don't be so wishy washy. One second you're complaining you're talking about him, the next when it is convenient you switch to 'her critics'

Well that was a rather obvious response. Despite the fact that there is no difference between being hate filled and doing actions motivated by hate, you're also simply dismissing the larger context because it doesn't comply with your specific requests.

So to summarize:
1. You attacked me for something I never said.
2. You then changed your tactic to reinterpreting one point I had made as my entire argument.
3. You then tried to wing it by demanding evidence.
4. Upon receiving evidence you dismissed it because it didn't meet your specific criteria.

Suppose if this goose chase had any productive value then at least it solved the mystery of why you're currently in the red.

 

[cikame]

She was a very strong leader with many enemies, but you only have enemies by actually doing things... something we don't get from many politicians.

I haven't studied her every policy, i read about her mainly through her decision to use the SAS in the 1980 Iranian embassy siege.

 

[Lethos]

And there is a difference. And as before you ignore magnitude. Someone saying "I hate you" and someone killing someone else are not equivalent, sorry. Doesn't matter if they are both motivated by hate.

I hate cats.
I ban cats from living in the UK because I hate them.

In the end I still hate cats in both examples. I am expressing a similar personality trait in both instances. That has all I ever accused Mr.F of doing. Sure that magnitude of the second action is far greater than the first, but that was never my point.

And hand waving some reference to a larger context is worthless. You spoke about him. Making unsupported claims about 'critics' when you said something about him means you're ignoring context completely.

Pointing out the larger context isn't worthless. This news has dominated the headlines of every single news outlet in the UK for the last couple of days, it's pretty easy to see the wider context. I provided evidence of him expressing hate so I don't even understand what the rest of your point is about.

Furthermore, you're the one who wants to ignore that people criticize her for more than being 'hate filled'. But I guess you can't go on and equivocate so easily if you had to go into specifics instead of tossing around the word 'hate' as if all hate is the same. Which, btw, it is not. Even if you think Hitler hating the Jews is the same as hating Hitler. Since you know, you like to go on and say 'But look both of them hate!' as if that matters

First of all, why does every keep bringing Hitler up consistently?
Second, I never said people criticize her for only being hate filled. This is entirely something you have made up in your head. The point I made that initially spurred you into this argument of semantics was me criticizing Mr.F for being hate filled, like people criticize Maggie Thatcher for being hate filled. The context of the hate is irrelevant because it wasn't my point. My point, as I have rather consistently told you, was that they were expressing similar personality traits. That. Is. All.

1. I attacked you for things you said.

You attacked me for you wanted me to of said.

2. You lied about me calling that your entire argument. I never did, but you're obviously the sort that needs to lie to avoid the fact they're wrong.

Hi, kettle.

3. I then asked you to prove that he said something you claimed he did.

And I did.

4. You failed to do it and are claiming you must be right since you knew I'd call you on your lack of evidence to support what you had said.

Never claimed I was right because of your predictability. I know it's easy to attack people for arguments that you have assigned them yourself, but it's not a very good tactic outside of your head.

Try harder to provoke me. I'm sure it will turn out well for you.

Considering that you would just have to call me smelly to get perma-banned, it probably would turn out well for me. Lucky for you I don't care enough about you to report you if you did.
Edit: Just reread that last bit and it sounded a bit aggressive. It's not meant to be taken seriously.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

She did what she thought had to be done and she did it in her own style.​

 

[Squidbulb]

I had no idea that the internet was full of working class northeners from the '80s.

But seriously, celebrating the death of someone is pretty sick. I didn't see this much celebration when Osama died, for God's sake. She hasn't even been Prime Minister for years anyway, why celebrate now? It doesn't affect you in any way.

 

[flarty]

snip

No one is saying the unions didn't have to be dealt with. But the effects of Thatchers over the top and barbaric treatment of not just the miners can be still felt today in parts of the UK, nearly 30 years on. The time that has passed and these communities are still struggling to come to grips with what Thatcherism done speaks volumes.

Also please stop going on about "lefties" it makes you sound partial, cocky and one sided and no one likes to listen or debate with such narrow minded individuals. Especially when you "righties" seem to work to an ideal of blame minorities about the state of the countries finances but do nothing about the billions that escape the country through tax loop holes. Its pathetic and laughable.

While you knock the guardian, don't forget it was the newspaper to expose the phone hacking scandal (amongst others). For a good while, the only one to report on it.

I wrote a lot of bombastic nonsense here but I have decided to retract it as it didn't achieve much. When I actually stop and think about it, the partisan nature of UK politics is probably the biggest problem - we need to tackle the bloated welfare state and public sector and we need to ensure corporations pay a fair tax rate.

I was about to say it was a god old belly laugh, a lot of it was dismissive of what i said and pot calling kettle black.
The best way to address the partisan politics is by realising if you subscribe to left or right or left wing politics you subscribe to a view of the world in only black and white, when in fact it is all shades of grey. One of the reasons i was a fan of Hugo Chavez political view was because he believed in a class system that taxed properly and redistributed the wealth fairly. Not the classic socialist commie the media would lead us to believe he was.

I'm happy. Not only was she a monster, tearing apart communities, taxing the poor unfairly, neglecting those who needed help and ignoring travesties of justice, I'm from Hong Kong and she gave away my home.

If any of you give me that "don't speak ill of the dead" guff, here's my answer...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

Weird that Guardianista is complaining about giving back a bit of China to China though, normally you guys are well into that white guilt self flagelation nonsense.

Because like I said, I'm FROM Hong Kong you nitwit. I was born there, raised there, grew up there and did not take kindly to my home being given away without a vote.

Ignoring all that she was a beast in all the other ways I listed. To celebrate her death is something many promised they would do when she ruined their lives entirely. I have no problem with people fulfilling that promise I'm just sorry they had to wait so long.

Dude it was "rented", it had to go back. There was nothing to vote for.

Nope...The New Territories were rented. Hong Kong Island was GIVEN to the British at the end of the Opium War. When the lease for the New Territories was coming up it was Maggie's job to renew the lease. She did not even attempt it and casually threw the island into the return as well. While citizens were being butchered across the border and at the time they were, we were being told, "enjoy your new leaders"! Locals (and I do mean local Chinese) in Hong Kong now wave the old colonial flag at protests to show how unhappy they are with how the mainland is eroding local freedom and how much better things were.

You could have looked this all up really rather than make an unresearched statement at a local of the place in question.

And Maggie still raped the miners.

Ha ha, funny how lefties get all riled up about "imperialism" unless they are affected directly, then it seems they become quite sabre rattle-ly.

I read The Guardian and The Independent...so I'm apparently a leftist and have issues with imperialism. Its nice you pigeon-hole people. I'm generally a moderate but as a member of the empire and having done a hell of a lot of reading on the subject (Niall Ferguson's book "Empire" is astounding btw) I've always felt that unlike other empires, the British generally left its subjects lands better off and was a misguided force for good. That however is an argument for another day. I just suspect you're trolling.

I have no doubt the quality of life plummetted on return to China but it's pretty hard to argue we could realistically maintain control over a colony that far away, that embedded into China. Do you honestly believe that if Kinnock had been in he'd have done any differently? He would have been falling over himself to prove himself a true son of the left, undoing evil imperialism and breaking down national borders. You'd have been part of the Chinese mainland before you could say, "70% tax to fund public sector pension boosts".

One of Asia's greatest economies. A bastion of democracy in a harsh Cold War. A harbour placed perfectly for all logistics needs. You don't think that would have been worth holding on to? And I have no idea what Kinnock may have done. I know what Thatcher did. I don't deal in ifs. If my grandmother had balls she'd be my grandfather.

I find funny because if pushed he probably agrees with the current stance that Falklands should decide their own fate in a similar situation at the moment.

Also when you look at the people who have no issue with imperialism, its usually people who benefit from it. When you look at people who do have issue with it, its everyone else including people who benefit from it but consider the human cost of that benefit. Speaks volumes really.

 

[Images]

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/ding-dong-bbc-refuses-to-play-margaret-thatcher-death-song-in-full-on-radio-1-chart-show-8569691.html

Thoughts on this new event?

 

[emeraldrafael]

I dont know her or really have to live with her policies personally (being from the us). you could argue she had good intentions that didnt quite pan out (I wont but im sure someone more qualified could), did raise the state of living (even if she did raise the gap between rich and poor), and she was a major help to the US during the cold war to face down the USSR. Of course I dont really care for reagan as a president so since she seems to have had the same ideas in mind I dont think Id look back on her all that fondly. but since I didnt live in either time its hard to hate.

... She hasn't even been Prime Minister for years anyway, why celebrate now? It doesn't affect you in any way.

From what I understand about her policies, the affects are still being felt even now, and they're not very positive. She's left the UK in maybe a worse state infrastructure wise.

 

[Hap2]

I had no idea that the internet was full of working class northeners from the '80s.

But seriously, celebrating the death of someone is pretty sick. I didn't see this much celebration when Osama died, for God's sake. She hasn't even been Prime Minister for years anyway, why celebrate now? It doesn't affect you in any way.

The negative effects of her policies are still being felt today, and many of the current UK parties and some politicians across the globe (e.g. Harper, Obama, etc.), so enthralled by her policies, continue her work by being best friends to the rich and powerful, and a walking plague to the poor and working class. That's why it matters.

All I can say is: good riddance. The world needs less of the insanity of her detrimental ideology in favour of a more realistic and compassionate approach.

 

[omega 616]

I believe I have already posted my opinions on this matter earlier in the thread.

I would just like to return and post this funny quote from a newspaper I saw today.

"'We'll only play five seconds of Ding Dong The Witch is Dead': Bungling BBC's chart show fudge as row over Thatcher protest single escalates
Song has now sold 20,000 copies since Thatcher's death on Monday
It has been pushed up the charts due to an internet campaign
BBC confirms it will play it on Radio 1 this Sunday - but a shorter version
Director General Tony Hall: 'I do believe it would be wrong to ban the song outright as free speech is an important principle'
The track, which costs 79p online, is currently No1 on iTunes


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307480/Ding-Dong-The-Witch-Is-Dead-Well-play-5-seconds-say-bungling-BBC-Margaret-Thatcher-protest-song.html#ixzz2QHK3kQK3"

I think that surmises what a large amount of people feel about this.

 

[Mutie]

I went on a three day session of drinking, smoking and generally making merry. I was always raised to believe that you should celebrate the life of one who has passed... In this case, I decided to celebrate the death of one who, unfortunately, lived. May her remains be cremated and sealed, so that her essence not poison the world with what corrupt entities from whence her rot may rise.

 

[Jegsimmons]

I feel about her death the same way I felt about Bin Laden's death: the departure of a human being who caused countless suffering, but a human being nevertheless. I can't find a reason to celebrate someone losing their life.

Comparing Thatcher to bin laden?

real fucking classy.

What the hell is wrong with people?

Seriously, a democratically elected woman who made history in one of the most powerful nations DIED, and you people are calling her a witch, celebrating, and comparing her to genocidal war criminals?

you people ought to be a shamed of your selves. that's low, that real fucking low. Im not even british and barely know anything about her, but damn people!

There are politicians i hate, but i'm not going to be glad when they die! just when they're out of office.

You people are worse than /b/.

And people wonder why i have such distaste for these forums.

 

[Ldude893]

I feel about her death the same way I felt about Bin Laden's death: the departure of a human being who caused countless suffering, but a human being nevertheless. I can't find a reason to celebrate someone losing their life.

Comparing Thatcher to bin laden?

real fucking classy.

What the hell is wrong with people?

Seriously, a democratically elected woman who made history in one of the most powerful nations DIED, and you people are calling her a witch, celebrating, and comparing her to genocidal war criminals?

you people ought to be a shamed of your selves. that's low, that real fucking low. Im not even british and barely know anything about her, but damn people!

There are politicians i hate, but i'm not going to be glad when they die! just when they're out of office.

You people are worse than /b/.

And people wonder why i have such distaste for these forums.

I repeat my statement.

I CAN'T FIND A REASON TO CELEBRATE SOMEONE LOSING THEIR LIFE.

I stand by my statement that Margaret Thatcher screwed up her country to levels that remained, but I'm not going to use that as a reason to be glad that she's dead. As for the Bin Laden comparison, I used Bin Laden because people were celebrating his death as 'vengeance' over 9/11, and I don't agree with that sentiment either.

Learn to read a post properly before rebutting.

 

[talker]

i quote the title of the song that reached the top less than 24 hours after she died:

'the witch is dead'