So MovieBob had some crap to say about that there Mass Effect 3 thingy...

Matt King

New member
Mar 15, 2010
551
0
0
The thing is i had a really high opinion of bob until this, but it has just dropped consideribly he is being really stupid,

But i will say i do not want them to change the ending i would like them to pull some blow your mind shit like that the indoctrination theory is right and if you chose the red destroy option in the new dlc (I think it was said it was going to be free but i can't conform) your body is found and you fight the reapers of earth and activate the crucible or whatever but if you chose say the green synthesis (or whatever it was called) You serve the fucking reapers and use the reaper forces to destroy the crucible and the allied fleet, like that shit would blow everyones fucking minds
 

Podunk

New member
Dec 18, 2008
822
0
0
I'm going to use a much-loved-to-hate franchise by Moviebob to prove a point. It's like Transformers. If you had no idea there was any previous Transformers anything, would the Michael Bay movies seem that bad? It wouldn't be inappropriate for them to look like that, or for the movies to focus too much on the humans, or their personalities to be wrong? No. You might not think it was great, but you wouldn't hate it nearly so much.

Y'see, the ME3 ending is like that. I watched the ending(didn't play it, no context, just watched the last 20-30 mins of the game) and didn't have too many problems with it. Not great, not even good really, but not terrible. Okay, the color coded endings were kinda lame, but what's the big deal? Then I found out the framing and back-story behind it, not to mention the promises made before the games release, and I think the people who are upset have a right to be mad! To put it simply, they(Bioware) done fucked it up for eerybody!
 

370999

New member
May 17, 2010
1,107
0
0
Zachary Amaranth said:
SirBryghtside said:
Agree with him entirely.
You're a fan of knocking down people made of straw, then?
Remember the Big Picture episode about GM food, and the opposition to it just really being people against it because "It's unnatural"? Hard hitting stuff that does a skilled job at portraying both sides fairly.
 

AdamRhodes

New member
Oct 4, 2010
84
0
0
Realitycrash said:
AdamRhodes said:
Okay, say I bought ME3 and was dissatisfied with the overall product. Can I return the game and get a refund? NO. Because I've already played ~30 hrs which means I must have LOVED it. But there's still shit in my oatmeal when the package said "cinnamon". What I can do is ask Bioware to change the shit in my oatmeal into cinnamon. They choose whether or not to cater to my request. But if they don't that just means I'll buy my oatmeal elsewhere. So, yes. I am "entitled" to ask for a better ending because that's the ONLY thing I have the power to do.
OR you can try to lobby to change the videogame-industry to change policies concerning refunds. Seems more logical? Afterall, you wanted a refund, did you not? Not to have the ending changed?
The point was I was dissatisfied with the product and seeking a refund because of the ending, you see. And, seeing as I'm not a lawyer or lobbyist, I have no clue how to go about changing those policies. I think that might actually solve the issue. If Bioware could lose the sales from dissatisfied customers they would've put more thought and effort into writing an ending without arbitrary plot twists and loose threads. And if dissatisfied fans could return games they dislike, they actually could "talk with [their] wallet" like I see so many people harp on. Or maybe games should have a "pre-screening" before release (not talking about beta-testing. That only checks for bugs in the programming, not bugs in the writing).
 

wintercoat

New member
Nov 26, 2011
1,691
0
0
Now why the hell would I go and watch yet another video in which Bob here calls me a dickhead for having an opinion that differs from his?
 

Vault Citizen

New member
May 8, 2008
1,703
0
0
endtherapture said:
EDIT2: Being dissatisfied with a product =/= entitlement. Someone really needs to get this into thick idiot's skulls.
05:54 - He says that "The ending sucks" is a valid complaint

06:14 - "I'm not suggesting that people don't have the right to be unhappy, that would be rediculous"

06:40 - "I am not saying you don't have a right to be upset about the end of Mass Effect"
 

Slayer_2

New member
Jul 28, 2008
2,475
0
0
AdamRhodes said:
They may have no legal obligation, but if they truly care about their fans as they've led us to believe in the past, they need to step their game up and not completely let down thousands of people who love them.
They are a big faceless corporation. Despite what some gamers might think, their opinion of the game is not the be-all-end-all of Bioware.
 

Realitycrash

New member
Dec 12, 2010
2,779
0
0
AdamRhodes said:
Realitycrash said:
AdamRhodes said:
Okay, say I bought ME3 and was dissatisfied with the overall product. Can I return the game and get a refund? NO. Because I've already played ~30 hrs which means I must have LOVED it. But there's still shit in my oatmeal when the package said "cinnamon". What I can do is ask Bioware to change the shit in my oatmeal into cinnamon. They choose whether or not to cater to my request. But if they don't that just means I'll buy my oatmeal elsewhere. So, yes. I am "entitled" to ask for a better ending because that's the ONLY thing I have the power to do.
OR you can try to lobby to change the videogame-industry to change policies concerning refunds. Seems more logical? Afterall, you wanted a refund, did you not? Not to have the ending changed?
The point was I was dissatisfied with the product and seeking a refund because of the ending, you see. And, seeing as I'm not a lawyer or lobbyist, I have no clue how to go about changing those policies. I think that might actually solve the issue.
Letter-campaign, start a free-domain website and spread awareness, turn to your local political, etc.
Yes, all of these takes effort, but isn't impossible. If you are serious, it is your duty as a citizen to act on your conviction. If you aren't, you are just lazy and bitching (harsh, I know, but true. Then again, we all do this now and again, I can relate)
If Bioware could lose the sales from dissatisfied customers they would've put more thought and effort into writing an ending without arbitrary plot twists and loose threads. And if dissatisfied fans could return games they dislike, they actually could "talk with [their] wallet" like I see so many people harp on. Or maybe games should have a "pre-screening" before release (not talking about beta-testing. That only checks for bugs in the programming, not bugs in the writing).
Well, you are in luck, Bioware might actually lose sales, and will most likely listen to this criticism and act on it in the future.
Prescreenings will tell you as much as a trailor will, though. Not more, or it will ruin the actual sale. And oh, we have those. They are called demos.
 

anthony87

New member
Aug 13, 2009
3,727
0
0
Through all this Mass Effect 3 stuff that's been going on there's still one thing that I'm not sure of....

Why exactly is it such a bad thing that people would like the ending to be changed a la Fallout 3?
 

Realitycrash

New member
Dec 12, 2010
2,779
0
0
Rawne1980 said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Rawne1980 said:
I'll start listening to his rants about video games when he changes his name to GamerBob.

As he's called Moviebob i'll just pass along without giving a tree whippets spunk about what he thinks.
You do know he was GAMEOverthinker first, right?
Yes but now he's Moviebob.

I'm using the same logic he used when starting his whole rant without playing the games first.

I.e .... no logic at all.
..You know what an Argumentum Ad Hominem is? It's a logical fallacy. Look it up.
Still, his point isn't even about games at all. It's about creators right to not be forced to edit their finished products.
 

AdamRhodes

New member
Oct 4, 2010
84
0
0
If Bioware could lose the sales from dissatisfied customers they would've put more thought and effort into writing an ending without arbitrary plot twists and loose threads. And if dissatisfied fans could return games they dislike, they actually could "talk with [their] wallet" like I see so many people harp on. Or maybe games should have a "pre-screening" before release (not talking about beta-testing. That only checks for bugs in the programming, not bugs in the writing).
Well, you are in luck, Bioware might actually lose sales, and will most likely listen to this criticism and act on it in the future.
Prescreenings will tell you as much as a trailor will, though. Not more, or it will ruin the actual sale. And oh, we have those. They are called demos.
The demo for ME3 told us nothing about the plot we didn't already know from press releases and commercials: The Reapers are attacking Earth. What I had in mind was take some fans(randomly or lottery or whatever), let them play the finished game you plan to release in order to get honest feedback. Now, obviously, these opinions aren't going to totally represent the opinions of everyone, but if something is obviously wrong to them, you know that it doesn't work like you pictured. Instead, we have MASSIVE fan outrage over 5-10 minutes of an otherwise (so I've heard) nearly perfect game.
 

The Bum

New member
Mar 14, 2010
856
0
0
If he hasn't played it I doubt he can truly understand how foolish the ending is. He hasn't experienced the baffling circular logic.
 

Krantos

New member
Jun 30, 2009
1,840
0
0
What I took away from this is that Bob is a Film Critic. There are some legitimate arguments against the "Take Back Mass Effect" drive.

"Player Driven Stories are bad" is not one of them. Player engagement and collaboration in the story is a central part of games and what makes them so different from other mediums. By harping on about that here, Bob pretty much makes the mistake of making games follow the same rules as his chosen medium: film.

Someone needs to find "here's the point. You missed it" img and send it to Bob.
 

Dethenger

New member
Jul 27, 2011
775
0
0
endtherapture said:
Zhukov said:
That was nowhere near as bad and/or vitriolic as I was expecting. I mean... he didn't even call us crybabies! I'm actually a little disappointed.

I agree with him on the "owe" business. Nobody owes us anything. The "games and gamers being taken seriously" stuff is horse shit though.

Also, since he hasn't played the games it's clear that he isn't aware of just how narratively broken the ending is, even if you ignore the choice business and the lack of closure.
I'm sick of "gamers being taken seriously" "games as an artform" etc. etc.

It's bullshit and who really cares. Honestly who gives a shit. If you enjoy it and think it's good why do you crave the validation of everyone else who thinks it's good?

It's pathetic. Gamers act like these little hipster kids who have this weird reclusive hobby so they crave the acceptance of others.

I don't care what other people think of the music I listen to. I also don't care what other people think of the games I play. This "taking gamers seriously" shit HAS to stop because it's making everyone look like fucking weak nerd kids being bullied.

EVERYONE plays games nowadays MovieBob. EVERYONE. My mum enjoys games. She knows what Skyrim is. Everyone knows what a DS is. Everyone knows who Mario is. Games are a part of popular culture now, they're not your little nerdy autistic hobby. You don't have to crave attention and make everyone think it's an artform because no ones cares. Games are here. That's it. End of.
The only things about it that irritate me is that a) it most certainly is, so to say otherwise is tantamount to saying that the sun revolves around the Earth, and b) video games not "being taken seriously" wouldn't really matter if society wasn't a thing, but it is, so not giving them the same status as any other art form prevents games like Six Days in Fallujah from being produced (a movie or a novel about Fallujah wouldn't have met the shitstorm the game did). I think when people call for video games to be treated like art, they don't mean for their hobby to be glorified, or to satisfy their need for acceptance; I think what they really mean is for games to stop being treated like children's toys.
 

Uszi

New member
Feb 10, 2008
1,214
0
0
Lovely Mixture said:
Guys, we had a thread going [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.355624-MovieBobs-thoughts-on-the-ME3-ending-controversy?page=1]. Ahh well, my thoughts here. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.355624-MovieBobs-thoughts-on-the-ME3-ending-controversy?page=18#14160427]
 

him over there

New member
Dec 17, 2011
1,728
0
0
Dethenger said:
endtherapture said:
Zhukov said:
That was nowhere near as bad and/or vitriolic as I was expecting. I mean... he didn't even call us crybabies! I'm actually a little disappointed.

I agree with him on the "owe" business. Nobody owes us anything. The "games and gamers being taken seriously" stuff is horse shit though.

Also, since he hasn't played the games it's clear that he isn't aware of just how narratively broken the ending is, even if you ignore the choice business and the lack of closure.
I'm sick of "gamers being taken seriously" "games as an artform" etc. etc.

It's bullshit and who really cares. Honestly who gives a shit. If you enjoy it and think it's good why do you crave the validation of everyone else who thinks it's good?

It's pathetic. Gamers act like these little hipster kids who have this weird reclusive hobby so they crave the acceptance of others.

I don't care what other people think of the music I listen to. I also don't care what other people think of the games I play. This "taking gamers seriously" shit HAS to stop because it's making everyone look like fucking weak nerd kids being bullied.

EVERYONE plays games nowadays MovieBob. EVERYONE. My mum enjoys games. She knows what Skyrim is. Everyone knows what a DS is. Everyone knows who Mario is. Games are a part of popular culture now, they're not your little nerdy autistic hobby. You don't have to crave attention and make everyone think it's an artform because no ones cares. Games are here. That's it. End of.
The only things about it that irritate me is that a) it most certainly is, so to say otherwise is tantamount to saying that the sun revolves around the Earth, and b) video games not "being taken seriously" wouldn't really matter if society wasn't a thing, but it is, so not giving them the same status as any other art form prevents games like Six Days in Fallujah from being produced (a movie or a novel about Fallujah wouldn't have met the shitstorm the game did). I think when people call for video games to be treated like art, they don't mean for their hobby to be glorified, or to satisfy their need for acceptance; I think what they really mean is for games to stop being treated like children's toys.
To be fair six days in Fellujah wasn't released because of the stigma, it wasn't like banned or anything. Which I think is backwards. We should be releasing these games whether society takes us seriously or not because that is how we will be taken seriously. Right now we are treating the art title like we have to have it to make these kinds of games, not that we will get it once we started making more games like six days.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

Leaf on the wind
Feb 20, 2011
4,474
0
0
Abandon4093 said:
This guy considers Mario to be the pinnacle of gaming. WHY DOES ANYBODY CARE WHAT HE THINKS?
This is very true. I think he does have a point when it comes to player-driven narrative still being a million miles away from the players being involved in the creative process, and I do think that, as bad as the endings were, they have now officially been blown out of all proportion (as internet fandom is wont to do).

But, yeah.
 

Mikeyfell

Elite Member
Aug 24, 2010
2,784
0
41
endtherapture said:
I feel like I should just stop watching as soon as he said he hasn't played the games because if you haven't played or experienced the full journey, you have no idea how bad the ending is.

You can't comment on an issue on the internet properly if you haven't experienced it.

EDIT: Yeah he has no idea what he is going on about, saying by interacting with a medium, the story is of a worse quality than if you'd read it in a book/seen it in a film? Yeah. He is completely wrong.

EDIT2: He just called us all entitled. All gamers he called entitled. Being dissatisfied with a product =/= entitlement. Someone really needs to get this into thick idiot's skulls.

EDIT3: Bioware do owe the fans something. Their fans are their business. They have no fans = they sell no products. Bioware owe their livelihoods to fans, and the fans have been cheated out of a decent ending. Expect the next Bioware game to sell very poorly.

EDIT4: He needs to stop saying entitlement here. Gamers aren't entitled. They pay for their products. Maybe it's different for him and other critics cos they get free games/movies/etc. to review and stuff, but when you've spent £30 of your cash on a game, and it is overall shit, and you say it, you're not entitled.

EDIT5: I don't care if games are taken seriously. See Jimquisition on this. Most of the music I listen to (metalcore/hardcore/pop punk) isn't considered art by most people but I really don't give a shit. I like it, that's all that matters, I don't give a shit if some critic doesn't consider it art.

EDIT6: He just said we're entitled to ask for patches to fix "real problems". That is not entitlement. This dick has no idea what he's going on about.
I feel sorry for you.
I mean most people who make that much of an ass of them selves usually do it on the second page but this is the first post.

I was going to pick your post apart but there are probably a thousand other people who are going to do the same thing, so I'll spare you.

But I also feel sorry for my self, because I'm on the same side of the argument as you. I want a new Mass Effect ending too. Most people are trying to say Bioware's setting a dangerous precedent by changing the ending to ME 3. But I don't understand why. (From where I stand they've also set a dangerous precedent for terrible endings too.) They already changed the ending to Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 with DLC. Why does people wanting it make it worse? Or bad at all?

From all that I've seen (which hasn't been all that much so I might be wrong) nobody's telling Bioware how to end the story, just that they should change it. That reeks just as much of desperation as of entitlement. There using all their misguided "They owe us" comments because (Well that's a tricky one, some people actually believe it. [sub]dumb sods[/sub]) they are pretty damn sure that "Please" won't work. And a Boycott is not an option, because gamers have already proven they can't stick to a boycott to save their lives. The only course of action they have left is to act like children and hope for the best.

It's a bad situation, the odds that anybody's going to come out of it satisfied are practically nil.
 

Dethenger

New member
Jul 27, 2011
775
0
0
him over there said:
Dethenger said:
endtherapture said:
Zhukov said:
That was nowhere near as bad and/or vitriolic as I was expecting. I mean... he didn't even call us crybabies! I'm actually a little disappointed.

I agree with him on the "owe" business. Nobody owes us anything. The "games and gamers being taken seriously" stuff is horse shit though.

Also, since he hasn't played the games it's clear that he isn't aware of just how narratively broken the ending is, even if you ignore the choice business and the lack of closure.
I'm sick of "gamers being taken seriously" "games as an artform" etc. etc.

It's bullshit and who really cares. Honestly who gives a shit. If you enjoy it and think it's good why do you crave the validation of everyone else who thinks it's good?

It's pathetic. Gamers act like these little hipster kids who have this weird reclusive hobby so they crave the acceptance of others.

I don't care what other people think of the music I listen to. I also don't care what other people think of the games I play. This "taking gamers seriously" shit HAS to stop because it's making everyone look like fucking weak nerd kids being bullied.

EVERYONE plays games nowadays MovieBob. EVERYONE. My mum enjoys games. She knows what Skyrim is. Everyone knows what a DS is. Everyone knows who Mario is. Games are a part of popular culture now, they're not your little nerdy autistic hobby. You don't have to crave attention and make everyone think it's an artform because no ones cares. Games are here. That's it. End of.
The only things about it that irritate me is that a) it most certainly is, so to say otherwise is tantamount to saying that the sun revolves around the Earth, and b) video games not "being taken seriously" wouldn't really matter if society wasn't a thing, but it is, so not giving them the same status as any other art form prevents games like Six Days in Fallujah from being produced (a movie or a novel about Fallujah wouldn't have met the shitstorm the game did). I think when people call for video games to be treated like art, they don't mean for their hobby to be glorified, or to satisfy their need for acceptance; I think what they really mean is for games to stop being treated like children's toys.
To be fair six days in Fellujah wasn't released because of the stigma, it wasn't like banned or anything. Which I think is backwards. We should be releasing these games whether society takes us seriously or not because that is how we will be taken seriously. Right now we are treating the art title like we have to have it to make these kinds of games, not that we will get it once we started making more games like six days.
Well, no, it wasn't outright banned or anything, but people flipped more shit than a fecal-matter acrobat, and as a consequence, the publisher pulled out like it was a one-night stand. That's more or less the issue-- we certainly should be releasing the games regardless, but publishers can't invest in a game that nobody is going to buy. So, the stigma didn't get it prohibited, it just drove away potential customers.
I do entirely agree that it's backwards, though. People do need to start making the games first. Talented people, I mean. I'm pretty sure a lot of Indie games are "artsy," but for every genuinely thought-provoking game that's fun, there's a thousand that are boring and filled with pseudo-intellectual horseshit that are simply not worth playing any more than a pretentious film-student's movie is worth sitting through.