Sony: Move's Buttons Make it More Hardcore
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
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The man makes sense, its a shame I don't care. I don't even know why I am posting on this thread to tell the truth.
this has probably been mentioned before, but looking at the pic on the article made me think:
theres a strap on the wand/lollipop so that you cant do (too much) damage if you (accidently) let go of it mid motion, the other hand part does not though. how many tv's do you think kids will get through before that also gets strapped?
OT, buttons are great, we know this.
motion control can be great when used correctly and when it works.
the statement from Richard Marks says to me that they want buttons as a back up in case the motion doesn't work.
Also, he said hardcore, so all the L33T will want it.
theres a strap on the wand/lollipop so that you cant do (too much) damage if you (accidently) let go of it mid motion, the other hand part does not though. how many tv's do you think kids will get through before that also gets strapped?
OT, buttons are great, we know this.
motion control can be great when used correctly and when it works.
the statement from Richard Marks says to me that they want buttons as a back up in case the motion doesn't work.
Also, he said hardcore, so all the L33T will want it.
im just waitin for mass returns cause of the ping pong ball breaking when you take it out of the box
I'm not gonna get one as I don't have a PS3, but I find one tiny problem with the tech they are using.
If the camera is meassuring where the icecreamcone is by light, then bright ligth can potentially fuck it up, I know they claim is has so and so many variations of the light, but nothing is as overpowering to other light sources as the sun.
And lightpollution is far more common than IR pollution.
I find that commercial a tad stupid from a pure marketing. It's clearly aimed at hardcore gamers to get them to buy what is essentially something that doesn't look natural at all (at least the wiimote looks like an ordinary remote) but at the same time hoping to get some of the "casual" segment to buy it.
You don't get those people to buy your product by downtalking them or talking smack about a product they potentially allready have and are pleased about, you just end up looking like a dick.
@Ubernoodle:
Of course Sony will be lauded by their hardcore customers, they are the ones poking the most fun of Nintendo, if they have to do the same to Sony their entire worldview will be breaking down. It's a defense mechanism, pure and simple.
Someone said that it's Nintendo's own fault for pushing games aimed at a sub 10 year audience.
That's in the eye of the beholder then, Nintendo's own games are almost always designed in a way so that people of all ages get something out of it from the formula: easy to learn, hard to master.
And what is wrong with giving a new and young audience a good experience? It just means that once they get older, they will remember Nintendo and buy their stuff, not Sony's stuff.
It's building customer loyalty and is a very longterm strategy, but gives the biggest payoff.
If the camera is meassuring where the icecreamcone is by light, then bright ligth can potentially fuck it up, I know they claim is has so and so many variations of the light, but nothing is as overpowering to other light sources as the sun.
And lightpollution is far more common than IR pollution.
I find that commercial a tad stupid from a pure marketing. It's clearly aimed at hardcore gamers to get them to buy what is essentially something that doesn't look natural at all (at least the wiimote looks like an ordinary remote) but at the same time hoping to get some of the "casual" segment to buy it.
You don't get those people to buy your product by downtalking them or talking smack about a product they potentially allready have and are pleased about, you just end up looking like a dick.
@Ubernoodle:
Of course Sony will be lauded by their hardcore customers, they are the ones poking the most fun of Nintendo, if they have to do the same to Sony their entire worldview will be breaking down. It's a defense mechanism, pure and simple.
Someone said that it's Nintendo's own fault for pushing games aimed at a sub 10 year audience.
That's in the eye of the beholder then, Nintendo's own games are almost always designed in a way so that people of all ages get something out of it from the formula: easy to learn, hard to master.
And what is wrong with giving a new and young audience a good experience? It just means that once they get older, they will remember Nintendo and buy their stuff, not Sony's stuff.
It's building customer loyalty and is a very longterm strategy, but gives the biggest payoff.
Kinect has buttons too. [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Xbox360-controller.jpg]
I'm actually rather shocked that this notion doesn't occur to people. I know Microsoft isn't advertising it but doesn't it seem obvious?
I'm actually rather shocked that this notion doesn't occur to people. I know Microsoft isn't advertising it but doesn't it seem obvious?
Know what helps more than buttons?
A SECOND FUCKING STICK!
You know, for camera control? So you don't have to choose between the motion controller being used for the camera OR being used for gameplay?
Why is this such a difficult concept for hardware developers to grasp?
The other motion controllers are full of problems that need solving, but the KINECT has the most and probably won't be practical for anything more than huge-budget flash games in spite of how impressive the technology is. Honestly, I gotta throw my hat in on Sony's side of the ring here. The biggest complaint I've had about the Wii as a designer is that it only has a couple of really useable buttons, forcing developers to substitute button-presses with stick-waggles and make sacrifices they shouldn't have to in the transition between traditional and motion-based controls. The Move? Actually fewer buttons, but more useable and without the whole "turn it on its side" gimmick to get in the way of a better button configuration. Everybody else is skeptical, but I likes it.
A SECOND FUCKING STICK!
You know, for camera control? So you don't have to choose between the motion controller being used for the camera OR being used for gameplay?
Why is this such a difficult concept for hardware developers to grasp?
That kind of defeats the point of the Kinect, though, and it's sort of like taking your hand off one controller to put it on another. Also, think of it from a development perspective. Yes, you can do it, but what would you need to do with it that you couldn't do with just the controller? Would it really be a necessary addition to ANY game, or would it just be a cheap gimmick? At best you'd be using one arm; would that really be better than using the Move or the Wiimote, which don't require you to take a hand off the controller? Can it do AS MUCH as either of those given that you can use the context of both motion and different buttons COMBINED to get different interactions? At best to get close to that kind of interaction maybe you press a button and THEN do a motion, but why when you could just press a button?Eldritch Warlord said:
The other motion controllers are full of problems that need solving, but the KINECT has the most and probably won't be practical for anything more than huge-budget flash games in spite of how impressive the technology is. Honestly, I gotta throw my hat in on Sony's side of the ring here. The biggest complaint I've had about the Wii as a designer is that it only has a couple of really useable buttons, forcing developers to substitute button-presses with stick-waggles and make sacrifices they shouldn't have to in the transition between traditional and motion-based controls. The Move? Actually fewer buttons, but more useable and without the whole "turn it on its side" gimmick to get in the way of a better button configuration. Everybody else is skeptical, but I likes it.
You know what might be just as feasible? Using the XBox controller AND the Kinect as the same time. No one seems to acknowledge this rather obvious combination. I think the move will have some very distinctive uses (I can't wait to try a point-and-click shooter with it!) but the XBox will have it's own distinction with games that combine traditional controls with gesture-augmented controls - I'm still pretty psyched to see a game with Minority Report-style menus! (They're gonna have those, right? RIGHT?!?!?)Irridium said:
Y'know what would stop the flood of hardcore games? A game where you play as this guy [http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Lobo_(New_Earth)]. He can pretty much count as a parody of hardcore games. But in the interest of pissing of the hardcore crowd allow me to give game designers this primer, which I will call...
[satire]How To Make Your Game Hardcore:
1) Make sure the only colors used are gunmetal black,shit dirt brown and muzzle flash.
2) The genre has to be First-Person Shooter.Fuck Beat-'em-up is also acceptable.
3) The characters have to be over-masculine, 'roid-abusingshitheads supersoldiers who show only one emotion: seething fury. Unquenchable bloodlust, unbridled hostility and intense anger are adequate substitutes. OTHER EMOTIONS MAKE YOU WEAK! AND WEAK THINGS GET KILLED!
-Addendum: Brooding shows the character(s) is/are deep! Make him/them brood when not in fights!
4) Make the button layout counter-intuitive and nearly detrimental to gameplay. It's part of the challenge!
5) No female characters! Women are weak! Only men are strong and are capable of killing things right!
6) All enemies must be either aliens, mutants or people that can easily be stand-ins for modern terrorists who are completely one-dimensional and have dumbass motivations.
7) RAAAAAAUGH!!
8) Soundtrack has to consist entirely of Thrash Metal. All other genres are for pussies!
9) If at all possible, glorify everything Rob Liefeld did to comics in the 1990s. Big robo-arms, chains, overblown muscle structure, spikes, skulls, BOW AND ADMIT LIEFELD IS GOD![/satire]
A D-Pad, two buttons and pixel art is all that was needed (ugh, I can't believe how old this makes me sound) back in the good ol' days.
[satire]How To Make Your Game Hardcore:
1) Make sure the only colors used are gunmetal black,
2) The genre has to be First-Person Shooter.
3) The characters have to be over-masculine, 'roid-abusing
-Addendum: Brooding shows the character(s) is/are deep! Make him/them brood when not in fights!
4) Make the button layout counter-intuitive and nearly detrimental to gameplay. It's part of the challenge!
5) No female characters! Women are weak! Only men are strong and are capable of killing things right!
6) All enemies must be either aliens, mutants or people that can easily be stand-ins for modern terrorists who are completely one-dimensional and have dumbass motivations.
7) RAAAAAAUGH!!
8) Soundtrack has to consist entirely of Thrash Metal. All other genres are for pussies!
9) If at all possible, glorify everything Rob Liefeld did to comics in the 1990s. Big robo-arms, chains, overblown muscle structure, spikes, skulls, BOW AND ADMIT LIEFELD IS GOD![/satire]
A D-Pad, two buttons and pixel art is all that was needed (ugh, I can't believe how old this makes me sound) back in the good ol' days.
Sony is HARDCORE! *headbangs to the tune of Smells Like Teen Spirit*
Ugh, what a joke. I had the same thoughts about the Kinect, that the complete lack of an actual CONTROLLER meant that it wouldn't be able to run any serious games which require precise control, but the way Sony has phrased this makes them look like a bunch of douchebags who think of their audience as a bunch of whooping idiots. What's important isn't whether it works or not, what's important is that it's HARDCORE! Bob would have a field day with this...
Ugh, what a joke. I had the same thoughts about the Kinect, that the complete lack of an actual CONTROLLER meant that it wouldn't be able to run any serious games which require precise control, but the way Sony has phrased this makes them look like a bunch of douchebags who think of their audience as a bunch of whooping idiots. What's important isn't whether it works or not, what's important is that it's HARDCORE! Bob would have a field day with this...
ENKC said:
You're a fan of Bob's, aren't you? He's good, isn't he?The Great JT said:
It all depends on if they can get it to control well. I mean if you can precisely and quickly aim and take fire with the Move why wouldn't you want it over a regular controller.monnes said:
If Miamoto would get to work then it would be. Super Marion bros. Wii and Galazy are part of the hard core side of gaming and so was Twilight Princess. There is just crap all third party support for Wii except for what suda 51 makes.TimeLord said:
Why is there so much focus on "casual" and "hardcore" gamers? Just give us something that's fun but is intuitive enough that a newcomer can jump in and not ragequit. You know, easy to learn difficult to master and all of that jazz. The game doesn't need to be balls to the wall hard to make the "hardcore" gamers happy, just reward skill and clever use of skills/weapons/whatever. But, most of all, focus on something fun that makes use of the new technology in interesting ways, not technology that makes use of the game.
Like Sorcery. That looked rad. More of this please.
Like Sorcery. That looked rad. More of this please.
So? Bob's right.Arcane Azmadi said:
Pandering to hardcores is a long-term mistake because you're ignoring a whole new generation of gamers and pandering to "hardcore" tastes leads to bad character design (Bomberman: Act Zero and Bionic Commando '09 on lines two and three), graphics that look like you're viewing the game through a photoshop filter called "Mud" and poorly-characterized, overly-masculine characters and storytelling that makes Chaucer turn over in his grave.
Yeah, whatever. I've said it before, I'll say it again; it's not the controller, or the control system, it's what you DO with it. Show me some games worth getting the Move for, and I'll consider getting it. That is all.