Sony: "Red Line Of Death" Affects Less Than 1% of PS4s

[Brian Tams]

And we should take the word of a major corporation that stands to lose a lot if their product is deemed defective, because...?
Yeah, I wouldn't put it past Sony to straight up lie about this.

 

[Church185]

OH good freaking God I think I copped to that several posts ago. Oh no someone is wrong on the internet. Must call him on it and make him look like a douche. I'm freaking leaving the internet now. Its not fun anymore.

Just hate to see the NDF misrepresenting their console as the second coming. Fanboys just need to leave each other alone, instead of jumping into articles about the PS4 and claiming your platform of choice is superior because of X, Y, and Z. They all have their issues and their strong points.

 

[KazeAizen]

OH good freaking God I think I copped to that several posts ago. Oh no someone is wrong on the internet. Must call him on it and make him look like a douche. I'm freaking leaving the internet now. Its not fun anymore.

Just hate to see the NDF misrepresenting their console as the second coming. Fanboys just need to leave each other alone, instead of jumping into articles about the PS4 and claiming your platform of choice is superior because of X, Y, and Z. They all have their issues and their strong points.

NDF how freaking cute. My platform of choice by the way is both PS4 and Wii U. The internet has become corrupt as just about every other freaking thing in this damn world. Bob was right. You need to put a shit ton of qualifiers for the other consoles other wise you will be seen as a fanboy the worst possible thing to be called now and people will attack with all they've got until they are certain your credibility is shattered into a million pieces and have made you look like a fool. Having personal bias in the world of video games is just as bad now as the world of politics. You know how much that blows?!

 

[EHKOS]

So what was the engineering flaw that causes it? Too bad thought, that blue line looks cool.

 

[Church185]

NDF how freaking cute. My platform of choice by the way is both PS4 and Wii U. The internet has become corrupt as just about every other freaking thing in this damn world. Bob was right. You need to put a shit ton of qualifiers for the other consoles other wise you will be seen as a fanboy the worst possible thing to be called now and people will attack with all they've got until they are certain your credibility is shattered into a million pieces and have made you look like a fool. Having personal bias in the world of video games is just as bad now as the world of politics. You know how much that blows?!

I have a Wii U and a 3DS (both Zelda special edition, had to make them match) what is your point? You came to a negative PS4 article to say that Nintendo was better. I just stopped by and had to correct misinformation. I would have done so regardless of the system.

If someone says that the Xbox One has DRM, I'll be there. If someone says that the Wii U has no games, I'll be there. ect ect...

 

[KazeAizen]

NDF how freaking cute. My platform of choice by the way is both PS4 and Wii U. The internet has become corrupt as just about every other freaking thing in this damn world. Bob was right. You need to put a shit ton of qualifiers for the other consoles other wise you will be seen as a fanboy the worst possible thing to be called now and people will attack with all they've got until they are certain your credibility is shattered into a million pieces and have made you look like a fool. Having personal bias in the world of video games is just as bad now as the world of politics. You know how much that blows?!

I have a Wii U and a 3DS (both Zelda special edition, had to make them match) what is your point? You came to a negative PS4 article to say that Nintendo was better. I just stopped by and had to correct misinformation. I would have done so regardless of the system.

If someone says that the Xbox One has DRM, I'll be there. If someone says that the Wii U has no games, I'll be there. ect ect...

Great. PC for gaming hardware. So much fun to be had there. Also note you caught me while I'm already pissed off as hell and guess what you didn't help a damn thing. I never once claimed the Wii U is the second coming. Perhaps I should just not have posted at all. You caught me on a damn bad day and now you've made it worse. Usually I'm more reasonable but I'm seeing too much damn red to care right now.

 

[Strazdas]

If a million units are sold (with more selling) that is about 10'000 bricked PS4's, which is unacceptable.

I don't get it, why do modern consoles do this? I understand being damaged while shipping, but that can't be the only reason.

Yes, it is. In fact, 10.000 bricked consoles is very low amount.
Why do modern consoels do it? maybe because manufacturing technology is not magic? You do know that ALL consumer electronics have failures and most of them are larger (industry average around 10%, 5% is "very good manufacturing"

Do I need to make my edit even bigger? I have been quoted on my mistake enough times already.

You do know you can actually edit out or even [ s ] your mistakes right?

Have you told this to modern consumer electronics? Acceptable failure rate is around 3%.

Try 7%. No, acceptable is more like 10%

And in fairness to Tizzy, we're not talking overall failure rate. We're talking a specific issue.

Oh, and it's not astonishing. Better than normal, yes. Astonishing? Not even close.

If they specified something like a 0.0001% failure rate, now THAT would be astonishing.

1% is astonishing. YOu would be hard pressed to find electronics that do that. 5% is better than normal. 1% is amazingly low.
If they specified 0.0001% They would quickly be called on a lie. in fact its hard to believe them now as 1% is extremely low to the point of getting unrelistic.

If they sold a million units already, 1% of which are red-lined, that's 10,000 units, give or take. That's an awful lot of faulties. I appreciate manufacturing defects, design flaws, launch issues, bad batches and other things that "just happen", but that's a very high failure rate for precision micro-electronics.

NO. thats VERY LOW failure rate for precision micro-electronics. In fact 1% is so low that its bordering on "not going to believe because so low is impossible" kind of deal.

I agree with you, anywhere near 1% is unacceptable, no matter what crap SONY spews. A tenth of a percent is on the high end of acceptable for something that costs as much as a PS4.

SO i take it you havent read the rest of the posts? 1% is amazingly low. Tenth of a percent would be called on as a lie as that doesnt happen.

And looking at all the DOAs and complaints in Amazon, the number is definitely greater than 1%. And looking at it, there other problems that don't kill the console completely but render it unusable--- such as blu-ray drive issues (like what happened to Totalbiscuit's PS4).

No its not. Amazong has what, 600 bad reviews? thats 600 of 1000000 units sold - 0,06%
no, thats wrong, they sold far more than 1000000 now.

I think we should wait for the market to provide a larger sample before declaring the total failure rate. Right now it looks fine, which is a step up from...other systems I could mention.

A million consoles sold and very likely being used because of the nature of buyers are nto high enough example?

You'll also note that the failure rate is less than 1% after only 4 days. Extrapolate this over months, assuming it's not just an isolated incident, and you may end up with a much higher overall fail rate. The fail rate of the Xbox 360 may have been similar in such a short time span, but it sure as hell didn't stay that low.

This is a 500 dollar piece of tech that we're expecting to last around 5 years. Having any significant number of them break after only 4 days isn't a good sign for the quality of the construction of the rest of them.

All electronics eventually fail. For example hard drives are not expected to live more than 3 years. that does not mean thier failure rate is 100%. failure rate here is within expected life. Though since they expect them to live 10 years then yes failure rate is 100%, becuase electronics very rarely live that long.

I guess it's really a question of what's more sad: that the console has a 1% failure rate, or that we consider a 1% failure rate to be really good when talking about a product that costs several hundred bucks.

Its not like that means that you loose the money if its dead on arrival. you get it replaced for a working console, your not wasting money or anything. people seem to panic here more than they should really.

I feel that these new consoles are rushed into production before they are fully tested. My Sega Genesis has worked without a problem for over 22 years and my PS2 has worked consistently for 13 years. I don't recall hearing (although this was before youtube) about debilitating hardware or software issues until the X-Box 360. Perhaps if they are making such technologically advanced systems, they should run more intensive and vigorous tests to stop such problems.

Plenty of old consoles were dead on arrival as well. its just that if you got a good one and every one of your friends got good one there was really no way to find out about the rest back then. Not that most of us cased at this age back then. i know i certainly didnt care when friend of mine got a dead console.

I don't think even the PS3 was able to claim 1%

PS3 was praised for 3% (which was far bellow industry standart).

I honestly am fighting the urge to multiquote the entire thread and ram the console failure rate statistics down it's throat

Too late.

Why does everyone say that the PS4 is the start of a new generation when the Wii U has been out for a year now and the Ouya has been around for a good half year at least?

Most people dont really consider ouya a console to even bother including everywhere considering how underwhelming it is. noone has one (obviuosly not noone, but almost noone), it never tried to compete with other consoles and is basically doing its own thing. If we count Ouya we shoudl also count SHIELD, then if we count shield, why not count every other handhed device, phones included, and then we got a mess we cant get out of.
WiiU is generally considered a failure and while technicalyl yes it is current gen its power make it feel more like last gen than current gen.

Um, Nintendo consoles have broken in the past, but generally they get the problems fixed quickly and Nintendo has a lower failure rate as a result. For the Wii U there was the problem of the consoles bricking at launch due to a power outage that happened when people were downloading the mandatory launch update. Then there was the problem of Nintendo consoles getting bricked after the Wii firmware update 4.2, in which Nintendo originally said that it was only bricking modded Wii's but turned out it was bricking nonmodified Wii's.

FIxing the dead consoles are not lowering failure rate. Also i dont think you know what bricking means.

No. And I doubt we will see that many numbers or reviews here that quickly as there are many retailers and not everyone reviews online. But If you look at the link below you will see that currently, 781 out of 3251 reviews are 1-star and a huge percentage of them are malfunctioning or DOA consoles. 51 are also 2-star reviews with crippling issues and bricks. So if we presume for a moment that all 1-star reviews are bad consoles that means the failure rate is at 24%. And if you include the 51 2-star reviews (many of them bricks), that brings the total percentage to 25.5921%.

Misleading math is misleading.
Amazon sold over half a million consoles. Out of those, 781 of them reviewed badly (lets assume all of them were about this issue, and thats very generous. Lets also ignore all troll reviews). thats 0,1562% of failure.
Problem with your math is you assume as many people review when they receive a good product as a bad product. this is factually incorrect. The only REAL measure we can get are the amount of returns due to console problem. But we dont ahve that statistic. Couple people whining on the internet, even if one of them is total biscuit, does not mean anything when you sell millions units.

I think all console manufacturers should improve quality and reliability. Just because it is an entertainment system (not industry or mission-critical), doesn't mean they can have this many bricks. Hell, if in my work we had this kind of failure rate on our products, we'd be out of business and drowning in lawsuits!

1% failure rate is ASTONISHINGHLY LOW. That measn the realiability has been improved way above industry averages. I do not know what your occupation is, but it clearly isnt in consumer electronics.

And we should take the word of a major corporation that stands to lose a lot if their product is deemed defective, because...?

Because its better than just make shit up (we got no measures) and then claim we got some ground.

If someone says that the Xbox One has DRM, I'll be there.

Well, technically, Xbox One has DRM untill you download the day 0 patch.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

I don't think it's much of a reach to suggest that one could easily recognize in this thread the cause of so much horrendous public policy throughout human history. Some people simply have no grasp of scale, probability, statistics, etc.

Oh, and false equivalencies, too. As long as there's a catchy, acronym-able tag for whatever malfunction plagues the PS4, we can at least surmise that it's exactly as serious as the Red Ring of Death. Never mind if the rate differential is over 15 to 1.

 

[Church185]

Well, technically, Xbox One has DRM untill you download the day 0 patch.

You also technically can't do anything with the console at all without the patch, so I'm not sure I would count it as DRM. Just idiotic design decisions brought on by public backlash for what they were trying to do.

 

[Atmos Duality]

A million consoles sold and very likely being used because of the nature of buyers are nto high enough example?

This is kind of a loaded question: Yes, it's a large enough sample right now.
(I seriously doubt there is even a tenth as many PS4s in existence as there were PS3s sold to consumers (80 million), but even if there were, 1/10 of 80 million is 8 million, and a sample of 1 million out of 8 million would still be a very good test sample size.)

BUT, it's not a reliable sample as the "test" for failure is still ongoing.

The true test for failure began on launch day and is going to continue for at least a few months as some failures only become apparent after longer term stress (assuming purely normal intended use). <1% on launch sounds nice, but I'd be quite surprised if it actually stays that low over time purely on account of manufacturing flaws.

Given that consoles are supposed to last several years, this is a fair requirement to impose in practice, and it's not like Sony has a perfect track record for these things. (Microsoft is worse, yes, but that's beside the point)

I remember when my friend killed his PS2 Disc-drive just by watching movies on it. It didn't happen suddenly or break out of the box, but gradually over time. It's a well-known issue for the early PS2s today, but back then nobody knew as the system was still new.

(hell, that same problem persisted through the third and fourth generations of PS2s as mine had extreme difficulty just loading a DVD, let alone making it through an entire movie. Played all games just fine though.)

 

[Something Amyss]

Try 7%. No, acceptable is more like 10%

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or intentionally relying on word confusion again.

If they specified 0.0001% They would quickly be called on a lie. in fact its hard to believe them now as 1% is extremely low to the point of getting unrelistic.

Well, unless you live in this reality.

Well, technically, Xbox One has DRM untill you download the day 0 patch.

No, it has DRM period. Consoles are closed systems that rely on DRM, no technically about it. See, claiming that Microsoft only has DRM until a patch? That's unrealistic. As in it does not conform to the reality of the matter at hand. There's a reason you have to intrusively modify an Xbox to play copied games. Why? Copy protection. Better known by the friendlier term DRM.

Before anyone tells me that piracy is bad or whatever, I'm not advocating that people illegally download and burn discs. There are other reasons to copy a disc, however. The US has the Fair Use Doctrine, for example. And I don't do any of this personally, either the illegal or the 'legal' options. I merely make this point to demonstrate that there is DRM involved.

 

[freedash22]

*snip

*kindly pardon my lack of correct quoting.

Strazdas:
"No its not. Amazong has what, 600 bad reviews? thats 600 of 1000000 units sold - 0,06%
no, thats wrong, they sold far more than 1000000 now."

Can you please show your sources on this? I'd like to enlighten myself because we know Sony has sold more than 1M consoles. What we don't know is how many of that 1M was sold through amazon.

This link helps but still does not show exact numbers:
http://www.geekwire.com/2013/amazon-shipped-ps4s-release-day-video-game-console-history/
Taken from the link:
"Sony addressed the problems this past Friday when the PS4 hit shelves at midnight, noting that less than 0.4 percent of consoles were broken. Given that one million were sold in the first 24 hours, at least 4,000 customers are dealing with PS4 issues. The company even issued a troubleshooting page on Saturday."

Strazdas:
"Misleading math is misleading.
Amazon sold over half a million consoles. Out of those, 781 of them reviewed badly (lets assume all of them were about this issue, and thats very generous. Lets also ignore all troll reviews). thats 0,1562% of failure.
Problem with your math is you assume as many people review when they receive a good product as a bad product. this is factually incorrect. The only REAL measure we can get are the amount of returns due to console problem. But we dont ahve that statistic. Couple people whining on the internet, even if one of them is total biscuit, does not mean anything when you sell millions units."

Again, I didn't know that Amazon sold that many, can I see your sources? Secondly, 781 is not a couple of people. It's not a few number. It's a lot based on our positive to negative review ratio in amazon. Honestly, I didn't want to use Amazon's numbers as my foundation because user reviews are not 100% reliable but Sony didn't provide us with any. So it was my basis because Sony did not declare supporting figures. If they did, we'd be using that instead. So why aren't they declaring this as accurately as they should to support their 1% claim? I'll leave that up to everybody.
You said it yourself, "We don't have that statistic." Well, if Sony wants to brag super numbers like this 1% then I need to see their basis for this claim. Sorry, but I need it to believe. Transparency for me is a requirement for trust. And no, I don't think their failure rates are as ugly as some would put it, just not 1%. I just feel it is too low to be realistic and there is evidence that points in that direction.
Also, regarding your concern for troll reviews, yes there are and will always be but a lot of these reviewers have a confirmed purchase for the console so we cannot totally discount a lot of them as per this statement on the link above:
"On Amazon?s PS4 product page, nearly 40 percent of the reviews have just 1-star. A majority of those from people have an ?Amazon Verified Purchase,? meaning they bought their console from Amazon and aren?t people just bashing the PS4."

Strazdas:
"1% failure rate is ASTONISHINGHLY LOW. That measn the realiability has been improved way above industry averages. I do not know what your occupation is, but it clearly isnt in consumer electronics."

You are right. It isn't. I'd like to keep that private. But I am glad we go through great lengths to make sure the failure rate is very low. Not just because it is industry equipment but because we care so much for our customers and we do not want to betray their trust which we earned through a long track record of quality products and transparency with product issues and service. I just want Sony to treat us the same way, and if not, better. We deserve that much.

 

[marioandsonic]

If that percentage holds, that's a more than reasonable number.

 

[Strazdas]

Well, technically, Xbox One has DRM untill you download the day 0 patch.

You also technically can't do anything with the console at all without the patch, so I'm not sure I would count it as DRM. Just idiotic design decisions brought on by public backlash for what they were trying to do.

I agree that it is broken by design unless you patch it but that still does not mean that the DRM is gone when you buy it. In fact Microsfot specified during one of their public announcements that amongst other things it is this patch that actually removes the DRM and the consoles ship with DRM in them. So yes that counts as DRM - you must registed online at least once with them to work the consoles at all.

This is kind of a loaded question: Yes, it's a large enough sample right now.
(I seriously doubt there is even a tenth as many PS4s in existence as there were PS3s sold to consumers (80 million), but even if there were, 1/10 of 80 million is 8 million, and a sample of 1 million out of 8 million would still be a very good test sample size.)

BUT, it's not a reliable sample as the "test" for failure is still ongoing.

The true test for failure began on launch day and is going to continue for at least a few months as some failures only become apparent after longer term stress (assuming purely normal intended use). <1% on launch sounds nice, but I'd be quite surprised if it actually stays that low over time purely on account of manufacturing flaws.

Given that consoles are supposed to last several years, this is a fair requirement to impose in practice, and it's not like Sony has a perfect track record for these things. (Microsoft is worse, yes, but that's beside the point)

I remember when my friend killed his PS2 Disc-drive just by watching movies on it. It didn't happen suddenly or break out of the box, but gradually over time. It's a well-known issue for the early PS2s today, but back then nobody knew as the system was still new.

(hell, that same problem persisted through the third and fourth generations of PS2s as mine had extreme difficulty just loading a DVD, let alone making it through an entire movie. Played all games just fine though.)

False quivalence. Your comparing a launch day amount and problems to 8 years of sales and problems. you should compare to PS3 launch date sales, which there were less than PS4. And when you compare those, PS4 is much more reliable.

The test is dead on arrival consoles now. this is tested as soon as they arrive. (kinda obviuos). yes in a few months we will see a lot more information but people are panicking now and there is no reason to do so really. I personally do not believe its going to stay bellow 1% in half a year, but even if it raises 5 times its still going to be a pretty good launch.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be funny or intentionally relying on word confusion again.

I just suck at english, sorry

Well, unless you live in this reality.

So im living in alternate reality if i think that 0.00001% failure rate is unrealistic or that 1% failure rate is great?

No, it has DRM period. Consoles are closed systems that rely on DRM, no technically about it. See, claiming that Microsoft only has DRM until a patch? That's unrealistic. As in it does not conform to the reality of the matter at hand. There's a reason you have to intrusively modify an Xbox to play copied games. Why? Copy protection. Better known by the friendlier term DRM.

You are correct and we probably should have been more specific. We were talking about always-on DRM.
Our country has actually a failr use law that claims that people can have as many copies as theiy want if media they legally own for personal use for occasions such as original disk breaks or so[footnote]there are other problems with it and how they "soved it via taxes, but thats another topic[/footnote].

Can you please show your sources on this? I'd like to enlighten myself because we know Sony has sold more than 1M consoles. What we don't know is how many of that 1M was sold through amazon.

This link helps but still does not show exact numbers:
http://www.geekwire.com/2013/amazon-shipped-ps4s-release-day-video-game-console-history/
Taken from the link:
"Sony addressed the problems this past Friday when the PS4 hit shelves at midnight, noting that less than 0.4 percent of consoles were broken. Given that one million were sold in the first 24 hours, at least 4,000 customers are dealing with PS4 issues. The company even issued a troubleshooting page on Saturday."

Again, I didn't know that Amazon sold that many, can I see your sources? Secondly, 781 is not a couple of people. It's not a few number. It's a lot based on our positive to negative review ratio in amazon. Honestly, I didn't want to use Amazon's numbers as my foundation because user reviews are not 100% reliable but Sony didn't provide us with any. So it was my basis because Sony did not declare supporting figures. If they did, we'd be using that instead. So why aren't they declaring this as accurately as they should to support their 1% claim? I'll leave that up to everybody.
You said it yourself, "We don't have that statistic." Well, if Sony wants to brag super numbers like this 1% then I need to see their basis for this claim. Sorry, but I need it to believe. Transparency for me is a requirement for trust. And no, I don't think their failure rates are as ugly as some would put it, just not 1%. I just feel it is too low to be realistic and there is evidence that points in that direction.
Also, regarding your concern for troll reviews, yes there are and will always be but a lot of these reviewers have a confirmed purchase for the console so we cannot totally discount a lot of them as per this statement on the link above:
"On Amazon?s PS4 product page, nearly 40 percent of the reviews have just 1-star. A majority of those from people have an ?Amazon Verified Purchase,? meaning they bought their console from Amazon and aren?t people just bashing the PS4."

My infrmation was deducted based on numbers shown on Amazon website during the period they closed pre-orders. Preorders for PS4+bundles were clse to half a million. We know they sold some afterwards, how much i cannot tell, but half a million is safe assumtion. They sold a million in North America in 24 hours. It has been a week now, how many have they sold via amazon you think?
781 is small amount of people, like i shown you with the calculations above. Reviev bias exists because people who dislike are much more prone to reviewing. Surely you dont imply that 3000 people totally bought the console form amazon?
Sonys claim is not accurate, however we have no actual evidence to disprove it. We also see relative little disgruntled people, and if failure rates would be close to 10% for example there would be much more people complaining about it.
There was a question raised that i havent seen answered is if you preorder the console and then cancel transaction late into the game woud yu still retain the verified tag. so thats also possible problem.
Also most of these people shouldnt be voting 1 to begin with since from what we heard sony is replacing these consoles as fast as postal services allow. and shit happens in electronics launch, thats just something we have to accept if we want cheap electronics. Could we do far lower failrue rates? sure. would you pay 40.000 dollars for a console though?

You are right. It isn't. I'd like to keep that private. But I am glad we go through great lengths to make sure the failure rate is very low. Not just because it is industry equipment but because we care so much for our customers and we do not want to betray their trust which we earned through a long track record of quality products and transparency with product issues and service. I just want Sony to treat us the same way, and if not, better. We deserve that much.

can you produce the equipment at such low costs though? i am very happy you provide quality equipment, but it also costs a lot more. And you try telling people that they should pay 4000 dollars for a console so the launch failure rate (which still gets replaced for free so all they loose is couple days of waiting) is bellow 0.1%. And even then the 0.1% will be disgruntled and scream foul.
Also you mention issues and service, showing that you still have some failure rates and problems and are nto witout them completely.

 

[Atmos Duality]

False quivalence...

There's no equivalence being made, just an observation.

I don't know the total number of PS4s in existence which is the relevant test population, I only know of the sample population provided. I'm using a hypothetical estimation to show that even in the worst circumstance, right now 1 million is a GOOD sample size even under less than ideal circumstances.

How those 1 million stand up a few months later is of much greater importance to me than how they're faring now for reasons I've already outlined.

this is tested as soon as they arrive. (kinda obviuos). yes in a few months we will see a lot more information but people are panicking now and there is no reason to do so really.

I care about long term reliability, and my point is, and has been since the first post, that we don't have any consistent proof of that reliability yet. You can discuss what a delightfully low failure rate they have now, and apart from acknowledgement that it's a good start (which I've already done), I don't really care.

A 400 dollar console is a reasonably long term investment. I'd expect one to last at the very least 5 years.

I personally do not believe its going to stay bellow 1% in half a year, but even if it raises 5 times its still going to be a pretty good launch.

Right now, I'm inclined to agree, but that's purely on gut instinct, not evidence.

 

[Strazdas]

False quivalence...

There's no equivalence being made, just an observation.

I don't know the total number of PS4s in existence which is the relevant test population, I only know of the sample population provided. I'm using a hypothetical estimation to show that even in the worst circumstance, right now 1 million is a GOOD sample size even under less than ideal circumstances.

How those 1 million stand up a few months later is of much greater importance to me than how they're faring now for reasons I've already outlined.

this is tested as soon as they arrive. (kinda obviuos). yes in a few months we will see a lot more information but people are panicking now and there is no reason to do so really.

I care about long term reliability, and my point is, and has been since the first post, that we don't have any consistent proof of that reliability yet. You can discuss what a delightfully low failure rate they have now, and apart from acknowledgement that it's a good start (which I've already done), I don't really care.

A 400 dollar console is a reasonably long term investment. I'd expect one to last at the very least 5 years.

I personally do not believe its going to stay bellow 1% in half a year, but even if it raises 5 times its still going to be a pretty good launch.

Right now, I'm inclined to agree, but that's purely on gut instinct, not evidence.

Thats the thing though, you care about long term reliability when the discussion is about short term launch realiability. noone even began guessing long term reliability yet, we were talking about short term failures, the out of the box ones.
And god i hope they wont last more than 5 years, we certainly dont need another 8 year generation when this one is underpowered at launch.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Thats the thing though, you care about long term reliability when the discussion is about short term launch realiability

K. They seem to be reliable in the short term. I won't contest that.
Though I will note that the failure rate has climbed in the last week for on-arrival PS4s.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-Failure-Rate-Nears-1-More-Foxconn-Allegations-Surface-60671.html

Which only further proves my assertion of waiting to see if a claim is consistent.

EDIT:

It hasnt really "climbed". It was 0.4% for the consoles that were shipped earlier as a prizes of Taco Bell game. After the actual launch Sony claimed it was less than 1%. There is no actual climb here, at least not yet.
Foxconn rumors are just that though - rumors. So far we got no confirmed cases of sabotage.

Oh for fuck's sake, stop playing dumb mate.
0.4% to 1.0% is an increase, a.k.a. "climb".

 

[Strazdas]

Thats the thing though, you care about long term reliability when the discussion is about short term launch realiability

K. They seem to be reliable in the short term. I won't contest that.
Though I will note that the failure rate has climbed in the last week for on-arrival PS4s.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-Failure-Rate-Nears-1-More-Foxconn-Allegations-Surface-60671.html

Which only further proves my assertion of waiting to see if a claim is consistent.

It hasnt really "climbed". It was 0.4% for the consoles that were shipped earlier as a prizes of Taco Bell game. After the actual launch Sony claimed it was less than 1%. There is no actual climb here, at least not yet.
Foxconn rumors are just that though - rumors. So far we got no confirmed cases of sabotage.