Sorry, Mass Effect 3 complainers

Mycroft Holmes

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Dendio said:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10761785/1

This link uses elements of two leaked scripts, in addition to several community spawned findings to provide clarity to the catalysts logic and the ending at large. A must read.
Those are linked scripts. Which is like using the original script of Star Wars where Han Solo was a giant vampire bat-man and there was no one named Luke Skywalker, to prove some point you have about Star Wars. You have to work with what they actually wrote, not what they thought about writing and then decided not to.
 

Jarek Mace

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Oh76SiHzs This.

If it was bad in a way that made me think "That's not how I could see it ending" then I'd be at fault..
But this was just an incoherent fucking burst of bullshit from the mouth of Bioware.
 

Dendio

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Chairman Miaow said:
Dendio said:
There are some really good breakdowns coming out now that we have all had our chance to vent.
Cooler heads have done a great job making some sense out of the ending.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10761785/1

This link uses elements of two leaked scripts, in addition to several community spawned findings to provide clarity to the catalysts logic and the ending at large. A must read.

In any case, welcome to the fold. Enjoy the free multiplayer dlc until extended cut and beyond.

Edit: link fixed ;-)
My biggest complaint with that is that is the bit where it says the reapers haven't reached the singularity because they cannot self-evolve. The Geth can make modifications and improvements to themselves, just look at legion. Are the Geth more advanced than the reapers?
According to the linked thread, the geth are unshackled AI who plan to develop their own future on their terms. The reapers are shackled AI locked into their modus operandi of preserving organic life through harvesting. The reapers are technologically superior, but they are locked in their current tech and unable to progress themselves. Perhaps this is why they say they are the final evolution.

Evolution by definition is unending, but in the reapers case they are unable to improve their technology or even alter their goal. The hidden function of the relays is to impose a form of control over the development of organic life. If the reapers wipe out organics at a lower technological level than they are then the reapers inability to improve ceases to be a problem. The reapers become the final evolution of organic life because they prevent organic life from advancing further.


http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12153660/1
I strongly recommend anyone reading this to also check out this thread as well. It more deeply explains synthesis, the geth dyson sphere and the catalyst's efforts against singularity.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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SonicWaffle said:
Speaking for myself, I think a lot of it was likely mental self-defence.

"It's Mass Effect 3, I've been waiting so long for this, it just can't be that bad. They must be wrong!"
I didn't have any issues with the game itself...just the ending...the ending was bad BECAUSE I loved ME3


[quote/]
Depends where you draw the line. Is it acceptable to paint over the Mona Lisa because you don't like her smile? Yes, I know it's an extreme example, but the logic follows. If you say "this is art, a creation with a purpose and a message, but I don't like the message so I want it to be different" regarding a video game and then pressure the developer into doing it, how is that different from petitioning directors or painters or authors to change things you don't like about their work?
[/quote]

ME3 isn't the mona lisa...not by a long shot, sure the principle is there...but so what? no one will care in years to come, NO ONE is going to look back on that ending that think its actually good

what I'm saying is screw the principle, it doesnt mean anything, it doesnt make anythign better, its just words,

the ending isnt just depressing/nonsensical/tacked on....its a very unique combination of all those things

anyway, I don't have high hopes for the extended cut...but its hope isnt it? its somthing? and thats better than nothing, better than leaving it as is
 

Lugbzurg

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What I think is also really stupid is... Why this game? This has happened GOBS of times, and people chose this game to freak out about?

Not to mention how people are really all up in a tizzy about the "broken promises" concerning Mass Effect 3.
Newsflash, people! This happens all the time!

One very big point is Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). It promised Sonic would have "Faster Speed". He's incredibly slow for some reason, and Omega is faster. It promised Shadow would have Chaos Blast and Chaos Control. He has neither. It also promised three ring-based attacks for Tails. He has two. It promised over 10 Action Stages. There are exactly 10. It promised real-life physics. We got a clunky mess of movements. It promised that Shadow was given a mission to Soleana from GUN where it was uncertain weather he was there to help or hurt Sonic. Nothing of the sort happened. It promised that Silver lives "lightyears in the future". What did they think that even meant!? It promised this was to be Sonic's first adventure on Earth. Seeing as how there had already been at least four games that already did so beforehand, this would have been a prequel, right? Nope.

There's also a picture of Sonic fighting Eggman's robots in Crisis City on the back of the case.

People have gotten a lot more sue-happy since 2006, it seems.
 

Zhukov

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Lugbzurg said:
What I think is also really stupid is... Why this game? This has happened GOBS of times, and people chose this game to freak out about?
Presumably the people doing the freaking care more about Mass Effect than Sonic.

Besides, it's not like Sonic fans have never freaked out over the various transgressions of their series. In fact, they seem to be freaking more often than not.
 

Lugbzurg

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Zhukov said:
Lugbzurg said:
What I think is also really stupid is... Why this game? This has happened GOBS of times, and people chose this game to freak out about?
Presumably the people doing the freaking care more about Mass Effect than Sonic.

Besides, it's not like Sonic fans have never freaked out over the various transgressions of their series. In fact, they seem to be freaking more often than not.
You just completely forgot the part where you quoted me saying that this has happened GOBS of times, with no mention whatsoever of Sonic in the quote.

Also, I only brought up that one Sonic game to prove a point. Why did Mass Effect 3 get torn down for breaking that one "promise", while Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) was completely ignored for breaking GOBS of "promises"?
 

Screamarie

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I'm kind of a newcomer to Bioware love. Names like Jade Empire and Baldur's Gate mean little to me more than "previous Bioware titles." I didn't find out about Bioware really well until Mass Effect 2 (which led me to ME1 and DA:Origins and Awakening. I'm buying Dragon Age 2 the first of June, when I get money).

So when it came to Mass Effect 3 I was hurt. Not massively depressed of course, but I was severely let down and I didn't understand why Bioware, usually beacons of good writing, could allow...that...to grace my screen. Considering that I was a fairly new Bioware lover, I have to think that long-time worshippers felt WAY worse than I did. I'm not justifying some of that crap (I believe there were death threats...yeah that shit wasn't called for), but I understood and symapthized with the outrage and agreed that, while it wasn't required of Bioware, it would be a good idea for them to either change or add to or do SOMETHING with that ending.

But at this point I've put it behind me as best that I can. For the most part I just try to say that, if accusations can be believed, Casey Hudson will take this as a lesson to not let his little brain children toddle off without him and peer review.

It's left a bitter taste in my mouth a bit, I cry a little inside when I think of it, I hold out hope that the "Extended Cut" will offer something to ease the pain...like whiskey or morphine...and I'm trying to move on.
 

Don Savik

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Stop calling it art. STOP. Its a video game. More importantly, its a product that they're selling. Who the hell cares about artistic integrity? I, as a savy consumer, only care about one thing. MY MONEY and what is important enough to spend it on. If something isn't to my liking, then I'm not buying it. That doesn't mean that things should change for me to buy them, it just means that not everyone is going to appreciate and like the product.

Game doesn't meet my standards so I'm not going to buy it. Why is that anyone elses problem? if you like the game well fine, like it. You already bought it, so Bioware and EA don't give 2 shits about your opinion.
 

Lugbzurg

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Don Savik said:
Stop calling it art. STOP. Its a video game. More importantly, its a product that they're selling. Who the hell cares about artistic integrity? I, as a savy consumer, only care about one thing. MY MONEY and what is important enough to spend it on. If something isn't to my liking, then I'm not buying it. That doesn't mean that things should change for me to buy them, it just means that not everyone is going to appreciate and like the product.

Game doesn't meet my standards so I'm not going to buy it. Why is that anyone elses problem? if you like the game well fine, like it. You already bought it, so Bioware and EA don't give 2 shits about your opinion.
"Games are not art"?

Erm. Ok. Better remove all films, novels, songs, paintings, sculptures, and all other forms of creative expressions from "art", and see what we're left with.
 

psijac

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kman123 said:
I'm with you. At this point in time I simply do not give a shit anymore. The damage has been done. I've lost interest in anything Bioware has to make from here on out.
I want EA's stock to do a facebook
 

Radox Redux

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Am I the only one who didn't really care about the Catalyst and it's logic? I thought the ending sucked because you arrived at it with no choice/variation having any effect and everybody effectively losing (on an individual level).

It undermines the entire series (including the first 95% of ME3), meaning I can never play the games again as anything over than an apathetic nihilist. If the Catalyst's logic and space-magic solution worked fine, it still wouldn't fix that.
 

Don Savik

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Lugbzurg said:
Don Savik said:
Stop calling it art. STOP. Its a video game. More importantly, its a product that they're selling. Who the hell cares about artistic integrity? I, as a savy consumer, only care about one thing. MY MONEY and what is important enough to spend it on. If something isn't to my liking, then I'm not buying it. That doesn't mean that things should change for me to buy them, it just means that not everyone is going to appreciate and like the product.

Game doesn't meet my standards so I'm not going to buy it. Why is that anyone elses problem? if you like the game well fine, like it. You already bought it, so Bioware and EA don't give 2 shits about your opinion.
"Games are not art"?

Erm. Ok. Better remove all films, novels, songs, paintings, sculptures, and all other forms of creative expressions from "art", and see what we're left with.
What I'm saying is its not an excuse. I didn't like the ending, and them going "oooooh but its art" doesn't mean anything. Since I don't like it AND its art then all negativity and criticism is invalid? It's an excuse that is going to become more and more popular as video gaming grows. Doesn't mean they should change anything, its just an "artistic" decision in the series that everyone hated.
 

SilverBullets000

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I'll be honest, I didn't buy ME3 because of Javik. I thought the guy would've had a much bigger role in the game. He didn't, so it made my passing up the game a little more silly. I still stand by it, as he's a freaking prothean, but I am happy that he was only a small part of the game.
The fact that the game's ending felt-I'm sorry-was thrown together and half-assed only made me more upset about the game. I won't say we should be able to demand it to be changed, but there's nothing wrong with asking for it to be. Especially considering that every ending is reminiscent of a 90's grimdarkgritty comic book. No, I didn't want it to be unicorns and rainbows, but I didn't want the whole universe to be fucked over either.
The "Buy moar DLC, guies!" at the end was definetly the final straw for me, though.

Anyway, thank you for apologizing OP. Yes, some people were acting rather spoiled about it, but there were others who were actually trying to be civil and intelligent.
 

Darkmantle

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honestly, this is tangentially related, I REALLY think they should go with the Indoctrination theory in their extended DLC.

From my time as a DM I have learned something very valuable, if your players come up with a much better and more interesting explanation or theory than yours, FUCKING STEAL IT. Pass it off as your own, they will never know! Take that ***** and RUN WITH IT!

Obviously I personally think the Indoctrination theory is awesome, so call me biased, but I think it would be an absolutely brilliant mechanic, the game would be indoctrinating not only the character, but also the PLAYER, that's amazing!
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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The main, key point I think of this whole debacle was that it was Mass Effect. The single most continuous series I've ever seen of video games (I don't know much of the history, but I'm pretty sure, maybe the Witcher), players were ensured that the choices that were carried across every game would have consequences in the end. And to keep people interested, they actually did, although somewhat superficially overall, I remember discussing with friends that the payoffs we'd all be waiting for would come at the end. And Bioware squandered this one chance. How many other games have ever done, or will do for quite some time, what Mass Effect promised? Bioware had the chance to make good on a gaming phenomenon and instead opted to make a quite frankly uncreative and stupid ending(s). If it's meant to be making a point, I don't care, I didn't play one game multiple times and many others two games multiple times to see someone make a point. If it's just time considerations and laziness, perhaps that would be a bit more excusable, speaking as someone who has experienced laziness but never the need to ruin something over a trivial matter. I don't think the ending even can be changed now, whether or not it should, to show the full effect that player choices should have had. But I lament what it could have been. As far as I'm concerned, the thoroughly thought-out context was the only other thing the game did really well. Appearance customisation wasn't that good, animation was at points unexpectedly bad, the class system was alright actually, I'll give them that, but no points for cover based shooting with the Force involved. The dialogue and assurance that choices mattered was really the only other thing I played the game for.

tl;dr yes I mad. I don't necessarily think the ending should be changed, I just think that everyone should have a chance to return the game for a full refund.

EDIT: Oh and as for the whole games-are-art thing, I don't even think some abstract paintings are art to be honest, but my feelings are when a game is developed with influence from anyone other than a central team or single person (like a publisher for example), it ceases to be art because it ceases to have a defined purpose. Heavily monetised games, for example, I do not consider art. Although, I can accept it being art as long as people then distinguish between good art and shitty art.
 

Zhukov

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Lugbzurg said:
Zhukov said:
Lugbzurg said:
What I think is also really stupid is... Why this game? This has happened GOBS of times, and people chose this game to freak out about?
Presumably the people doing the freaking care more about Mass Effect than Sonic.

Besides, it's not like Sonic fans have never freaked out over the various transgressions of their series. In fact, they seem to be freaking more often than not.
You just completely forgot the part where you quoted me saying that this has happened GOBS of times, with no mention whatsoever of Sonic in the quote.

Also, I only brought up that one Sonic game to prove a point. Why did Mass Effect 3 get torn down for breaking that one "promise", while Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) was completely ignored for breaking GOBS of "promises"?
People clearly cared more about ME3 than whatever games you're thinking of that they failed to rage about.

Also, isn't Sonic 2006 generally considered to be a terrible game? I haven't played it myself, but every mention of it makes it sound like crap. The closest I've seen to a positive comment is something along the lines of, "That one level wasn't so bad..."
 

SonicWaffle

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Professor Putricide said:
His name was Marauder Shields. And he tried to stop you. D:
Yeah, I saw that meme. Made me chuckle :)

Professor Putricide said:
As someone who's also recently beaten the game, I can say I'm at least curious to see what happens next. I wasn't happy with the ending, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't wanting to see what they throw out there. I don't want them to fix it, but I do kinda care to see what they put out there to clarify it.
It seems to me like any attempt to explain it further is just going to make things worse. Unless they write it off as a dream, or indoctrination, it'll be a god damn mess. I'm betting that they'll "clarify" things, and it'll leave us more confused and annoyed about the matter.

Look at shit with a magnifying glass, it's still shit. You can just see it with more clarity :p