Spanking

[WorldCritic]

Spanking = bad.
Just give them a time out or something... are time outs still used or am I still stuck in the 90s?

 

[Burningsok]

There are better ways to punish a child than physical harm. Maybe an occasional slap on the hand is okay, but don't overuse physical violence as a punishment; it'll only encourage rebellion and/or teach them into using violence themselves.

lol seriously? the only reason kids can be rebellious is when they haven't been taught the lesson soon enough. They don't get the picture in the beginning and have this mindset of me-me-me. They feel like they are entitled to things which they aren't.

I was smacked around if I mouthed off. My mom said she would knock my teeth out if I continued to mouth off at her. Now she's as sweet as sweet as any mom and I turned out to be a pretty decent person, I hate hurting others, and I feel terrible when I do.

Buddy... if you don't draw the line and put your foot down, your kid will figure out how to push your buttons the right why, and you won't be able to get the message across. They will know that you won't touch them, and they will thrive off of it. I'm not saying to beat your kid senseless, I'm saying when you want to really get the message across, a little physical punishment will do just fine. But yeah, for the most part, start with words.

 

[TehCookie]

Thanks, though I'm not sure that speaks well of my social life <__<;

Nothing wrong with having a night to yourself, unless it's every night...

No, I have a friend over last night. I prefer being alone though.

Spoiler: But you're never alone

Wow this is getting off topic...

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

There are better ways to punish a child than physical harm. Maybe an occasional slap on the hand is okay, but don't overuse physical violence as a punishment; it'll only encourage rebellion and/or teach them into using violence themselves.

As opposed to teaching them to manipulate others emotionally when they don't get what they want?

 

[crudus]

Um, if they do not understand language, then they will not understand why it is wrong. They'll think the action gets them in trouble, but they aren't exactly learning much. From their point of view it will just appear arbitrary. Making someone follow rules they find arbitrary doesn't sound like a good way to teach them.

This is how you teach dogs to do anything. When you train a dog (correctly), it doesn't think you are just randomly giving it treats. The dog associates an action such as sitting down with a treat. The dog figures out that when it sits down it gets a treat.

The same can be said for toddlers. When a toddler bites a stranger, said toddler gets hit. The toddler associates biting people with pain. This association decreases the likelihood the toddler will bite strangers. The key in both cases is to have the consequence be within a second of the action. Otherwise yes, it would seem arbitrary.

 

[Koroviev]

Thanks, though I'm not sure that speaks well of my social life <__<;

Nothing wrong with having a night to yourself, unless it's every night...

No, I have a friend over last night. I prefer being alone though.

Spoiler: But you're never alone

Wow this is getting off topic...

Damn, where is my laser gun when I need it <__<

OT: I don't condone spanking cats. The animal animals. Not the other cats...

 

[crudus]

I see what you are saying, but that punishment might theoretically be used as negative reinforcement does not make it something other than punishment. Punishment is defined as an aversive stimuli used to change behavior. That a child is aware that they may be punished for certain actions does not make that punishment into negative reinforcement. It is still punishment.

God this gets confusing o__o

Yes it does. Reinforcement and punishment are mutually exclusive. If it can be theoretically reinforcement then the same scenario can't be punishment in the same manner you can't walk both north and south. They are opposites.

That definition has a fault in it. Change "change" to "decrease" and it is good. Remember: I have been using operant conditioning terms this entire time. By that definition a punishment can increase a behavior which is incorrect. Another example of negative reinforcement is a mouse is put into a cage. The cage floor is constantly shocking the mouse. When the mouse hits a lever the shocking stops. The lack pain is acting as the reinforcement for the mouse to push the lever.

 

[Burningsok]

Spanking's for pansies, my parents were military. That meant cans. Held at shoulder-height with arms straight out to your sides. For at least 30 mins. You think it's easy? Go ahead, give it a shot, you'll be thankful you only had spankings.

When a kid misbehaves around me, I cuff the back of their head, Gibbs-style.

Not bad lol, maybe a little much depending on the kid. I can relate to the cans thing. at around 5 mins of just holding my arms up, they started burning. I had to hold my arms up for 10 mins and jog around in a circle in wrestling practice once. Fuck that burned

 

[crudus]

Demonstration is a key way of teaching rights and wrongs, but I suppose there is a certain nature to children that often makes them want to do anything BUT what you've taught them, your task as a parent is to keep them on that straight and narrow.

I guess many parents will do anything in thier power to make sure that happens. In a sense, it is sort of like learning to ride a bike, you'll get a few bruises along the way, but it will be worth it when you finally learn. Thats sort of how I see certain forms od dscipline, though its when that discipline steps out of hand that parents need discipline of thier own.

The problem with your analogy is riding a bike is a foreseeable end. It is easily comprehended. Being an upstanding member of society isn't. Yes, children will mimic you to a point like what you are wearing, reading the paper, etc. However, they will still run around in the supermarket and bite strangers. It is at that point you need to whip out the punishment(spanking, washing their mouth out with soap, what have you). Just be sure to reward them when they don't bite strangers the next time. Although I think we are agreeing on a lot of our points.

 

[TehCookie]

Thanks, though I'm not sure that speaks well of my social life <__<;

Nothing wrong with having a night to yourself, unless it's every night...

No, I have a friend over last night. I prefer being alone though.

Spoiler: But you're never alone

Wow this is getting off topic...

Damn, where is my laser gun when I need it <__<

OT: I don't condone spanking cats. The animal animals. Not the other cats...

Nyaa~

I wonder if a squirtbottle will work on babies... or mace...

 

[Faladorian]

Try words. If that doesn't work, fuckin' smack 'em. You can't shelter your kids or they'll become spineless pussies.

 

[crudus]

Damn, where is my laser gun when I need it <__<

OT: I don't condone spanking cats. The animal animals. Not the other cats...

Nyaa~

I wonder if a squirtbottle will work on babies... or mace...[/quote]

It will (though mace would be considered abuse). I was taught with a spray bottle to flinch when someone said "can" my junior year of high school.

 

[TehCookie]

Damn, where is my laser gun when I need it <__<

OT: I don't condone spanking cats. The animal animals. Not the other cats...

Nyaa~

I wonder if a squirtbottle will work on babies... or mace...

It will (though mace would be considered abuse). I was taught with a spray bottle to flinch when someone said "can" my junior year of high school.[/quote]
You learn something new everyday, especially on these forums. You should also change your screenname to Sudowoodo.

Anyways, may I ask why taught you to do that?

 

[Plazmatic]

Leaving out the extremities of smacking a child, do you think in some cases a smack is justified or do you think everything can be handled in words. I've seen the pros and cons of both choices, but I'd like to see your opinions.

slap of the hand and butt is not bad. however slapping your child in the face is a differant story, dont do it.

Why is that?

there is a strong psychological differences to any person if you touch them, hit them, or do anything kinesthetic to them in the face, there is a strong emotional polarization compared to most other parts of the body. For example, I you hit a person in the arm, you know, for fun, they usually wont react with hostility if its a casual situation, however if you were to hit them in the face, even if it was intended to be friendly physical contact, you can invoke a strong hostile response. The same is true (but instead acting in an overly peaceful way) for non sexual intimate moments (I E parent and child friend etc).

The point is If you slap your child across the face (especially this early) you will do one of a few things, alienate them in terms of closeness, family ties, cause them to hate you, even later in their life, cause repressive and/or seclusive personalties, and a whole host of other problems.

if you don't believe me you can at least test this a little in real life, for example, getting hit in the face (by any object even by accident as long as it was from a person), though its hard to purposefully get into a situation like that.

 

[crudus]

You learn something new everyday, especially on these forums. You should also change your screenname to Sudowoodo.

Anyways, may I ask why taught you to do that?

I think that name is taken. Anyway, I was taught to do that for a psychology class. The teacher was demonstrating classical conditioning. He read a list of words and sprayed me in the ear when he said "can". The point was to get me to flinch when he said "can", but didn't spray me. It worked. I was flinching randomly all day. I have had that reflex crop up a few times over the years.

 

[Burningsok]

I think people jump the gun when they attribute their good behavior to spanking. Can they really be so sure it wasn't just them gaining a bit more maturity? I am really skeptical people would so easily be able to analyze themselves without a big heaping of bias. To eradicate bias and to account for variation I would think you'd need to resort to an actual study.

I agree with what you say and I wouldn't say that a large part of my development as a child attributes to the spanking I recieved, like I've said, the spanking I recieved went hand in hand with the love, care and affection I recieved and of course those positives had a larger share on my positive outcome, and yes, not in all cases is spanking necessary, neither do all children push the boundaries. But in the rare case, some children do, like I said, I myself did it, in fact, the only person I ever listened to was my mother, and even she had a hard time with me. Admittedly I was expelled from several primary schools for my extreme temper tantrums (which resulted in one school having its books torn and its fish tank smashed). So seeing as my mother used to get my attention with a good smack on my bottom when I wasn't listening and then turn me towards her face, come down to my level and speak to me firmly, I'd say it had an effect on my up bringing.

I like to think there is no such thing as a bad child, there is only bad parenting, but my parents were amazing parents, and they still are, it's evident in the fact they have adopted my little sister and she is the happiest little person I know. My brother and I both recieved smacks and we talk about it proudly because while the smacks themselves didn't make us better people, they contributed in a small way.

Agreed for the most part, however I think that there is such things as bad kids, but they're uncommon. Punishment differs from kid to kid. Physical punishment should always be an option, but it doesn't always need to be used. It can get to the point where the parent has the right to punch the kid's lights out, but that's only when the kid is becoming a danger to himself and to others. My mom always gave my the 3 strike rule. She'd tell me to stop. that would be 1. "that's 2" on the 2nd strike. "That's 3!" and from there I would at least have my ear grabbed and would end up looking at one pissed off mother, or she would smack me across the face and tell me to pick myself off the floor. *shivers* my mom scared me when she got angry. LOL because of how well I behave now, she is sweet as can be. Also I found out why I'm such a nerd... thanks mom for your genes lol.

 

[Uncreative]

I got smacked on the hand a fair number of times, spanked every now and then.
It was more often I was glared at and angrily threatened with a spanking, and that was still fairly uncommon.

Even then, the only thing it ever accomplished was rooting a strange feeling of terrified resentment that only pops up when my Dad gives me the Do-You-Understand-Me?! look.

So, No. I really don't want to do that to my hypothetical children. If for some strange reason it's my only option to keep them from being awful people, I'll do it. But I truly hope I won't be a bad enough parent to let it come to that.

 

[Plurralbles]

I think it's good because it's a wakeup call for the child. They're going to learn the world is full of jerks someday, might as well get a hard knock when they're the ones being a jerk before they act like a jerk to someone who won't stop at just one smack.

 

[Zing]

Honestly this thread title made my mind go in a different direction. It frankly became a bit of a letdown.

 

[TehCookie]

You learn something new everyday, especially on these forums. You should also change your screenname to Sudowoodo.

Anyways, may I ask why taught you to do that?

I think that name is taken. Anyway, I was taught to do that for a psychology class. The teacher was demonstrating classical conditioning. He read a list of words and sprayed me in the ear when he said "can". The point was to get me to flinch when he said "can", but didn't spray me. It worked. I was flinching randomly all day. I have had that reflex crop up a few times over the years.

That would be terrible during a job interview. "We were wondering what can you do for our company..."

I should probably go to bed before I make any more stupid comments...