Spartan Vs Astartes
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I'd hope that Magot just ploughs into Master Chief in a requisitioned Land Raider or something.Mathak said:
Ah, Magot... why you so fictional and lesbian?
I well thinks that's a bit unfair since the question is generalised to just average Spartans and simple Battle Brothers not terminators and elite brass (Never in my life did I believe I would use the words 'average' and 'simple' to describe either warrior)SckizoBoy said:
Though I do agree with your comment about who would win if Spartans vs all the ranks of the Astartes
You know what the reduced speed at which an Astartes in terminator armour would move (I now it's very minimal but that's all it would take) a Spartan could circle them and stab them in the back making their storm shield kinda useless
*Meh*, I'm inclined to agree. Though the rules for Terminator Armour are a bit weird. They don't decrease the wearer's dexterity at all, and they can still 'run' in the shooting phase, but after combat, they fall over themselves when they try to chase, which is stupid. Ne?!Titan Buttons said:
I reckon they should've gone the whole hog and said:
Terminator Armour = 2+ AS & 5+ IS
If fleet, lost (on account of Shrike, fucking hell, the 'tiptoeing assault terminators' were ridiculous!)
Can't run, can't overrun & Relentless
That way, they wouldn't be so prohibitively expensive. Guh!
Anyway, if a Spartan tried stabbing them in the back, it still wouldn't work. I've always imagined it as follows:
Terminator swings Thunder Hammer/Power Fist downwards (let's face it, the marine's going to be much larger), Spartan dodges, unsheathes his sword and vaults up the Marine's arm, spots a ***** between helmet and armour, BAM! Space Marine spine/both hearts etc = jelly. Spartan win.
Neither! An Imperial Guard artillery battalion receives wrong firing coordinates, and shells the battle. Both the Chief and the Space Marine are vaporized by the sudden onslaught of Earthshaker shells.
OT Space Marines have the Might of the Emperor. Chief has... Cortana. I may be wrong, but I think mystical space god trumps logic in this case.
OT Space Marines have the Might of the Emperor. Chief has... Cortana. I may be wrong, but I think mystical space god trumps logic in this case.
this one is easy. Just need to open any 40k book or game. "In the 41st Millenium There is only war" That is all there is to it. No Halo spartan would be able to take on a space marine who is trained to fight everything from Human Heretics to aliens to demons from the warp. All spartan's do is fight aliens.
I didn't say it was a sensible plot line. The only really logical explantion is that mabye he has become sort of warp manifestation of mankinds collective warp presence; sort of like how Slaneesh was formed from the Elders collective doucheness. The warp only became so messed up because of the Old Ones war with the C'Tan; it used to be peaceful and suitable for children to view without being mindf*ckedMr Thin said:
I have to admit I don't collect Space Marines but I am a big fan of the Black Library, so my point where made mainly on what I've read they can do terminator armour slows them down. Also most of your codex terminology is a bit hard to follow but I do understand overall points your making and I agree with you, the statss just don't fit properly.SckizoBoy said:
Also your scenario makes a lot more sense then mine
Its heartening to see this thread has not blown into a flamewar. I was sure I would find furiously raging vs. thread but its actually quite calm...
OT:Yeah this is not a vs. in MC favor. SM are so overpowered its not even funny (then again WH40k world being what it is, even that power isnt enough...).
I think somebody mentioned that MC is about as strong as silverback gorilla with suit on? SM is as strong as gorilla without a suit. WITH suit on, SM has enough grip strength in one hand to easily pulverize a rock.
for those intrested in fluff heres what you need to make one of emperor's finest: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine
The line soldier battle brothers alone usually have centuries worth of experience and are revered by humanity as demigods. Then we have the named Space marines, who have titles such as Lord of Death, God of War, etc.
EDIT: oh , and space marines are usually collectively known as "Angels of Death" ...soooo yeah.
OT:Yeah this is not a vs. in MC favor. SM are so overpowered its not even funny (then again WH40k world being what it is, even that power isnt enough...).
I think somebody mentioned that MC is about as strong as silverback gorilla with suit on? SM is as strong as gorilla without a suit. WITH suit on, SM has enough grip strength in one hand to easily pulverize a rock.
for those intrested in fluff heres what you need to make one of emperor's finest: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine
The line soldier battle brothers alone usually have centuries worth of experience and are revered by humanity as demigods. Then we have the named Space marines, who have titles such as Lord of Death, God of War, etc.
EDIT: oh , and space marines are usually collectively known as "Angels of Death" ...soooo yeah.
These "religious aliens" are bent on destroying all life, as are the zombies which chief also fights. Both have means to do so.norwegian-guy said:
That said, the assault rifle and pistol from halo are absolute shit when it comes to armor penetration, not to mention the fact that space marines come 38,000 years after the chief, meaning their tech is way beyond his. So, the Astartes would win.
Thought this thread said "Spartan vs. Artosis" for a second there. I'll just go back to my business now...
OT: Chief. OR rather, energy sword. It's so OP it's ridiculous.
OT: Chief. OR rather, energy sword. It's so OP it's ridiculous.
No actually if you read 40k fluff space marines are so over powerdly fast they can break the motherfucking sound barrier in their armor.Trivun said:
Yes I'm exaggerating but it's still ridiculous.
It has to be Astartes. The Spartan Powersword argument doesn't hold water. Assuming they could even get to proper melee range and hit... so what? A Space Marine's indomitable will is his strongest asset. Astartes are famous for ignoring monstrous wounds and continuing on to complete their goal. Some examples being Captain Tycho and having his head sawed in half vertically and continuing on to kill both the mech and it's allies before succumbing and an unnamed Space Marine who has his legs, lower torso and arm torn off and rather than requesting medical help braced his bolter against a wall and kept going hell for leather. That will allows them to even shrug off armour piercing headshots at times. That and they are just superior warriors.
All becomes moot if you let space marine heroes get involved to counter Master-Chiefs hero status. For example if it were Master-Chief against say... Chief Librarian Mephiston... There would be a whole world of wrath and hurt never experienced by Master-Chief.
It has been mentioned too that to even enter the challenges to begin TRAINING with the spacemarines you have to be a card carrying badass who has weathered a lifetime of struggle. Also, I think, if you want to spend the army points you can outfit space marines with energy shields if you so wish.
All becomes moot if you let space marine heroes get involved to counter Master-Chiefs hero status. For example if it were Master-Chief against say... Chief Librarian Mephiston... There would be a whole world of wrath and hurt never experienced by Master-Chief.
It has been mentioned too that to even enter the challenges to begin TRAINING with the spacemarines you have to be a card carrying badass who has weathered a lifetime of struggle. Also, I think, if you want to spend the army points you can outfit space marines with energy shields if you so wish.
Astartes. Ever time. Their standard issue weapon is a rocket propelled grenade launcher for all intents and purposes. But add in the fact that they're using a Plasma rifle and that would easily be able to burn through any Spartan taking them on. Sure the Spartan has an Energy (which I would imagine would be similar to a power weapon) but Spess Mehrenes are tough. Sure you can stab him with it, but he's likely to keep going. And you're probably gonna get a chainsword to the face if you get that close.
luckily we have a system to which to test this theory.
Ok, so a spacemarine has the following physical attributes:
Strength 4 toughness 4, initiative 4(which is an agility stat), 1 wound, 1 attack, leadership 8.
Weapon skill and ballistic skill 4 which is due to both training and an advanced targeting system.
Now to, in an unbiased fashion, give the masterchief the same set of stats. Keep in mind that mos humans, even the muscle bound Catachans, are strength 3.
Strength: Does he do anything that requires huge feats of Strength? hitting stuff isn't enough. Are there any HEAVY weapons he moves and fires with ease? From what I remember there isn't, so his strength might be 3. An upper end 3, mind you, but a 3 none the less. I think the elites that batter the MC around are 4.
toughness: I'm willing to give MC a 4 here.
Initiave: If the power armor does anything it makes this 4.
Wounds: 1. There is no real way to measure this, so it should be placed in equal measure with the opponent.
Leadership: i'd give him a 9. He's more of in a leadership role some of the time. This stat doesn't matter because for the purpose of this combat its a one-on-one death match.
Weapons: The weapon choices are slanted. in the 40k universe, all bullet style weapons are at strength 3 - meaning on a space marine they'd need to roll a 5 or 6 to wound.
The sword would be a power sword.
Weapon skill: This represents how well you do melee...And lets face it, he's not really a Melee type of guy. Yes he can do it, so he gets a 3, but its not his focus, so he stays a 3.
Ballistic skill: 4.
so he'd be something like this:
WS: 3 BS: 4 S: 3 T: 4 I:4 W:1 A:1 LD:9
Assault rifle: strength 3 24" rapid fire(meaning if you move, you only fire at 12" but you get twice the shots) and ap 5(Correct me fellow 40kers, if this isn't lasgun/autogun ap).
Pistol: strength 3 12" pistol ap 5. (meaning that you can fire it twice at 12" or once and assault at 6")
Power sword: ignores armor, attacks at user's strength.
His armor: There are far too many rubbery joints on it. I am being GRACRIOUS by calling it true power armor(carapace can have the same effects) so it's a 3+ armor save, with a 5+ invuln(shield) save. What this means is that if there is an attack that ignores armor, and the user is not in cover, the shield will absorb it on a 5+ save. This is an effect of the 40k game rules taking the best of saves.
*AP is a value which determines what armor the weapon ignores. ap 5 represents it ignores 5+ armor saves and anything worse. ap 2 represents it ignores 2+ armor saves and anything worse. the save value means if you have a 5+ save, if you roll a 4 or less on a d6 you fail to save the wound. 1s always fail.
Spacemarine stat line
WS 4 BS 4 S: 4 T: 4 I:4 W:1 A:1 LD:9
Bolter: strength 4 24" rapid fire
bolt pistol: strength 4 12" pistol
Chainsword: Close combat weapon, no affect other than when paired with a bolt pistol adds 1 attack(which will be the same for the MC and his powersword/pistol.)
Plasma Rifle: strength 7 24" ap 2 Gets hot(If you roll a 1, you suffer a wound.)
Both have grenades for purposes of terrain penalties.
So we're going to assume that both want to get into melee. They're going to run at eachother until they get to that 12" range. 40k has a three phase process. You can only move 6 inches as infantry, than shoot, than assault 6". You cannot shoot and assault with rapidfire weapons. So whoever gets to the 12" mark first isn't going to be able to assault: instead they're going to open up. So if the marine gets there first, he's going to roll 2 d6s which need 3s to hit, than per hit you would need to roll 2+ on a d6 to wound. Assuming that cover is used by both, the MC would need a 4+ cover save for any successful wounds.
This would mean that the MC would be the one to assault. He would move 6", fire his pistol needing a 3+ to hit and a 5+ to wound, the space marine needing a 3+ to save. Charging would give the MC an extra attack.
Close combat phase: MC 3 attacks, needing 4s to hit and 5s to wound. No saves for Space marine.
Space marine: 2 attacks, 3s to hit, 4s to wound. 3+ save for MC. attacks would be simultaneous, so it's possible they'd kill each other.
If the MC got there first, he'd need 3+ to hit with his two shots, and then 5+ to wound. And then the space marine would need 3+ to save.
The space marine would be the one to assault, so he would get one shot at 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound. MC would need a 3+ to save.
In Combat, Space Marine would have 3 attacks, needing 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound. MC would need 3s to save.
MC would have two attacks, needing 4+ to hit and 5+ to wound. No saves for Space marine.
Theres some dice theory that helps figure out what this would all amount to, but it is the MOST scientific way to do it. An not like WORLDS DEADLIEST MARY SUE. Or is it.
TL;DR: its up to SCIIIENCE!
Ok, so a spacemarine has the following physical attributes:
Strength 4 toughness 4, initiative 4(which is an agility stat), 1 wound, 1 attack, leadership 8.
Weapon skill and ballistic skill 4 which is due to both training and an advanced targeting system.
Now to, in an unbiased fashion, give the masterchief the same set of stats. Keep in mind that mos humans, even the muscle bound Catachans, are strength 3.
Strength: Does he do anything that requires huge feats of Strength? hitting stuff isn't enough. Are there any HEAVY weapons he moves and fires with ease? From what I remember there isn't, so his strength might be 3. An upper end 3, mind you, but a 3 none the less. I think the elites that batter the MC around are 4.
toughness: I'm willing to give MC a 4 here.
Initiave: If the power armor does anything it makes this 4.
Wounds: 1. There is no real way to measure this, so it should be placed in equal measure with the opponent.
Leadership: i'd give him a 9. He's more of in a leadership role some of the time. This stat doesn't matter because for the purpose of this combat its a one-on-one death match.
Weapons: The weapon choices are slanted. in the 40k universe, all bullet style weapons are at strength 3 - meaning on a space marine they'd need to roll a 5 or 6 to wound.
The sword would be a power sword.
Weapon skill: This represents how well you do melee...And lets face it, he's not really a Melee type of guy. Yes he can do it, so he gets a 3, but its not his focus, so he stays a 3.
Ballistic skill: 4.
so he'd be something like this:
WS: 3 BS: 4 S: 3 T: 4 I:4 W:1 A:1 LD:9
Assault rifle: strength 3 24" rapid fire(meaning if you move, you only fire at 12" but you get twice the shots) and ap 5(Correct me fellow 40kers, if this isn't lasgun/autogun ap).
Pistol: strength 3 12" pistol ap 5. (meaning that you can fire it twice at 12" or once and assault at 6")
Power sword: ignores armor, attacks at user's strength.
His armor: There are far too many rubbery joints on it. I am being GRACRIOUS by calling it true power armor(carapace can have the same effects) so it's a 3+ armor save, with a 5+ invuln(shield) save. What this means is that if there is an attack that ignores armor, and the user is not in cover, the shield will absorb it on a 5+ save. This is an effect of the 40k game rules taking the best of saves.
*AP is a value which determines what armor the weapon ignores. ap 5 represents it ignores 5+ armor saves and anything worse. ap 2 represents it ignores 2+ armor saves and anything worse. the save value means if you have a 5+ save, if you roll a 4 or less on a d6 you fail to save the wound. 1s always fail.
Spacemarine stat line
WS 4 BS 4 S: 4 T: 4 I:4 W:1 A:1 LD:9
Bolter: strength 4 24" rapid fire
bolt pistol: strength 4 12" pistol
Chainsword: Close combat weapon, no affect other than when paired with a bolt pistol adds 1 attack(which will be the same for the MC and his powersword/pistol.)
Plasma Rifle: strength 7 24" ap 2 Gets hot(If you roll a 1, you suffer a wound.)
Both have grenades for purposes of terrain penalties.
So we're going to assume that both want to get into melee. They're going to run at eachother until they get to that 12" range. 40k has a three phase process. You can only move 6 inches as infantry, than shoot, than assault 6". You cannot shoot and assault with rapidfire weapons. So whoever gets to the 12" mark first isn't going to be able to assault: instead they're going to open up. So if the marine gets there first, he's going to roll 2 d6s which need 3s to hit, than per hit you would need to roll 2+ on a d6 to wound. Assuming that cover is used by both, the MC would need a 4+ cover save for any successful wounds.
This would mean that the MC would be the one to assault. He would move 6", fire his pistol needing a 3+ to hit and a 5+ to wound, the space marine needing a 3+ to save. Charging would give the MC an extra attack.
Close combat phase: MC 3 attacks, needing 4s to hit and 5s to wound. No saves for Space marine.
Space marine: 2 attacks, 3s to hit, 4s to wound. 3+ save for MC. attacks would be simultaneous, so it's possible they'd kill each other.
If the MC got there first, he'd need 3+ to hit with his two shots, and then 5+ to wound. And then the space marine would need 3+ to save.
The space marine would be the one to assault, so he would get one shot at 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound. MC would need a 3+ to save.
In Combat, Space Marine would have 3 attacks, needing 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound. MC would need 3s to save.
MC would have two attacks, needing 4+ to hit and 5+ to wound. No saves for Space marine.
Theres some dice theory that helps figure out what this would all amount to, but it is the MOST scientific way to do it. An not like WORLDS DEADLIEST MARY SUE. Or is it.
TL;DR: its up to SCIIIENCE!