Star Wars Force Awakens Spoiler Filled discussion thread (no spoiler tags, you've been warned)

[JayRPG]

Now in episode 7, Kylo Ren is easily overpowering Rey, and for good reason, Kylo was trained by luke skywalker, the knights of ren, AND what you could only assume is a very powerful Sith in Snoke, he has had years of training and experience. Then Rey, holding a lightsaber for the very first time, closes her eyes and is suddenly the most powerful lightsaber duelist in the galaxy because 'the force did it'.

And people keep forgetting that Kylo Ren was shot by the Star Wars equivalent of a .50 cal just moments before the duel. He was bleeding out.

I didn't forget it and I kept that in mind after seeing the movie the first time but I've seen it 3 times now (Midnight, next day, then biggest screen in southern hemisphere just for the experience) and he got shot by the bolt but moments before Rey closes her eyes and becomes super jesus Kylo is barely showing it, if at all, he isn't bothered by the pain and easily overpowers Rey to get close to her and offer his teachings to her.

If the damage he sustained earlier was supposed to be a big factor in why Rey beat him, it should have actually been showing, so either it wasn't a factor at all and the force is completely stupid now, or the director was/is terrible and had no idea how to show the audience Kylo was actually in danger.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Any sign of Force sensitivity makes you a Jedi candidate. Period. You don't need to suddenly awaken to be able to use the Force actively or train.

Keep in mind, the EU is gone. The films are the only canonical continuity now, and it's pretty evident they are working overtime to pretend the prequels never happened. You're not going to hear about midichlorians ever again, and I suspect you're not going to see any fucking younglings practicing with blast helmets on.

As much as everyone likes to point out how little training Luke got as displayed in the films, and despite what I'm about to say it certainly is minimal, that's just a trick of cinematic time. Luke certainly got more than 5 days especially since it doesn't sound like you're including self training, lightly implied in the movies (he did construct his own lightsaber by Return of the Jedi) and expanded in books and stuff that aren't Dinsey un-canonized (something about reading Kenobi's journals and things like that...I don't know. I get most of my information on those from Wookieepedia summaries).

That's the thing, right? "Jedi" or...we'll just call them Force sensitives...don't seem to require much in the way of formal training. They just awake to their powers and start using them/experimenting with them. Luke didn't need to go to Jedi Academy and take Lightsaber Construction 101. He didn't need four years of rigorous instruction to get his Force Compel certificate. I'm not sure exactly what it was Leia was supposed to "learn". How to flip around and use a lightsaber? She's a pretty busy person.

I don't have an issue with every force sensitive person in the Galaxy immediately dropping everything for Jedi studies. The Jedi are not and should not be the Star Wars equivalent of Hogwarts. There's also something pretty fucked up going on with the way the Force likes to "balance" itself with a lot of murder. Think about it...how would you feel about becoming a Jedi in that universe, knowing there would immediately be at least one super-powered masked lunatic looking to kill you?

...the force is completely stupid now...

I'm curious what it is about The Force that this moment fundamentally changed for you. Why is it stupid now, and what was the difference that made it not stupid before?

 

[jamail77]

Keep in mind, the EU is gone. The films are the only canonical continuity now, and it's pretty evident they are working overtime to pretend the prequels never happened. You're not going to hear about midichlorians ever again, and I suspect you're not going to see any fucking younglings practicing with blast helmets on.

They reference the prequels several times in the movie though I think more were jabs at them than were not.

I am well aware the EU is gone, but I highly doubt they're going to make part of this sequel trilogy be about how your powers must be awakened or you can't go Jedi-ing. The title alludes to many things, but I don't think it alludes to an entire segment of Force sensitive population needing to awaken. Again, Luke told Leia she would in turn learn to USE the Force. J.J. Abrams stated in interviews she could have as well and chose not to so I think that demonstrates it's not a simple matter of awakening. It's only a matter of Force sensitivity.

He didn't need four years of rigorous instruction to get his Force Compel certificate. I'm not sure exactly what it was Leia was supposed to "learn". How to flip around and use a lightsaber? She's a pretty busy person.

I don't have an issue with every force sensitive person in the Galaxy immediately dropping everything for Jedi studies. The Jedi are not and should not be the Star Wars equivalent of Hogwarts. There's also something pretty fucked up going on with the way the Force likes to "balance" itself with a lot of murder. Think about it...how would you feel about becoming a Jedi in that universe, knowing there would immediately be at least one super-powered masked lunatic looking to kill you?

I do believe I read a timeline that says the original trilogy takes place over 4 years or so actually. So, not rigorous but he certainly didn't just use and experiment for a little bit and say he was good. His abilities with the Force and a lighsaber are very different from when he starts out to when he confronts both the Emperor and Vader on Death Star 2. I agree though that it shouldn't be like Hogwarts or the prequels and that, yeah, either way Luke's training is minimal and says something about Jedi and the Force in general regardless of his particular prodigy status.

I would think they're going to come after me ANYWAY for my important position and heritage and legacy and Force sensitivity so I might as well get acquainted with all that stuff they're coming after me for. So, you know, I'm prepared.

Sorry about all the edits you might have missed by the time you posted your responses by the way. I'm trying to do multiple things at once while replying to you. My edit in an earlier reply tackles what you say about her being a busy person.

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

Is it really worth it though? I mean two moon sized stations and a converted planet, and collectively they've only destroyed 6 worlds and the ships around them (Not-Coruscant had a fleet in orbit that we could see vaporized by the planet's explosion). The number of ships they could have built with those resources could have done a lot more to keep the worlds of the empire in their place. They had freaking docking bays large enough for Star Destroyers, I think the Imperial Fleet could have done good with that type of material to work with.

The Death Stars...questionable. One planet destroyed for the two Death Stars, and they were relatively small/mobile and required a fleet to protect them. Starkiller base couldn't move, but had a ridiculous firing range. Being able to snipe an entire system from the safety of an entrenched position seems pretty slick. Also a lot easier to staff one super-base than the tens of thousands of ships you'd ostensibly create with the same resources. I can see the allure.

Or I mean, I could, if I were a genocidal madman.

No, no, no. It's not REALLY about being genocidal. They were actually galactic jobs programs to stave off the galactic recession! Yeah, that's it! All those people needed jobs! And the new stormtroopers, well that's just proactive job creation in under-developed sections of the New Order's territory! They're really just forward thinking! Yeah, that's the ticket!

OT: Just saw the movie today. Sure as hell wasn't going to deal with the crowds on the weekend.

I will simply say this: It was obvious to me that Abrams is someone who truly loves Star Wars and who put everything into making the movie (unlike the half-baked swill I saw in his Star Drek reboots <-- personal opinion of the films, feel free to like them if you disagree). The movie does have some pretty big flaws and I'm very worried about what they'll do with the plot from here out.

However, I enjoyed my time in the theater and that is, for me at least, the primary measuring stick I have for a movie. Did I enjoy myself while watching it? If yes, then it was more good than bad and I'm satisfied.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I am well aware the EU is gone, but I highly doubt they're going to make part of this sequel trilogy be about how your powers must be awakened or you can't go Jedi-ing.

Leia is likely in her mid 20's, approaching 30 by the time ROTJ ends. If she was going to emerge as a powerful force user, you'd think she'd have shown more signs of it by now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rey and Luke are respectively hidden on desert worlds because the Force is created by/sustained by "life". There is a deliberate attempt to keep them "in hibernation" so to speak, so that the forces who would harm them don't pick them up on their bloody "Force Sonar". Why would Leia have sat dormant that entire time, until Luke prodded at her to come give him a lift from Bespin? Could it be she's just not all THAT force sensitive, Skywalker blood or not?

I do believe I read a timeline on that says the original trilogy takes place over 4 years. So, not rigorous but he certainly didn't just use and experiment for a couple days and say he was good. His abilities with the Force and a lighsaber are very different from when he starts out to when he confronts both the Emperor and Vader on Death Star 2.

He uses the Force to destroy the Empire's super weapon mere days after discovering his heritage, and with literally an hour or two of "training" to go on. He's been a force user for all of a day or two and he's already the biggest hero in the galaxy. I think we can admit the guy went from zero to sixty right off the bat. Bulls-eyeing womp rats on Tatooine is good background and all, but the guy went from being cold-cocked by the first violent entity he meets to swinging around the Death Star, stepping up to instantly become the Rebel's best pilot, and making a shot a space-faring society's computer couldn't manage using his magic sixth sense. Ben is either a really amazing teacher or a lot of formal "training" isn't really required.

I always got the feeling his "training" was more preventative medicine. Like hey kid, you're a super hero. Here's how to not accidentally become a super villain. Not "Hang with us and we'll teach you telekinesis!".

 

[Zakarath]

Yeah, as others have said, TFA is good, but has quite the list of faults.
I feel like they spent way to much time going "LOOK AT THIS IT'S A THING FROM STAR WARS WOOHOO THIS IS A STAR WARS MOVIE"
The pacing was way too rushed and the Superweapon felt really shoehorned in, because having a big superweapon honestly feels just like how J.J. Abrams makes sci-fi movies. His two star trek movies both had giant OP ships of death, too (the first one had the giant ship of death AND the black hole goo).

Not nearly enough time spent on characterization. Fin was the only one who had any sort of time spent on developing his character. (And Darth Angst had some, I guess, though not nearly enough to justify his being an evil bastard for no good reason.)

I did like Pilot Guy, whetever his name was. Didn't get to see much of him but still managed to definitely be the sort of classic Rogue Squadron pilot type.

They spent too much time sprinting from action set piece to action set piece, just like one of those modern FPSes Yahtzee refers to as spunkgargleweewee games.

 

[jamail77]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rey and Luke are respectively hidden on desert worlds because the Force is created by/sustained by "life". There is a deliberate attempt to keep them "in hibernation" so to speak, so that the forces who would harm them don't pick them up on their bloody "Force Sonar". Why would Leia have sat dormant that entire time, until Luke prodded at her to come give him a lift from Bespin? Could it be she's just not all THAT force sensitive, Skywalker blood or not?

I made a lot of edits in the time you probably responded. Here's something to keep in mind you might have missed because I edited it in after posting:

Again, Luke told Leia she would in turn learn to USE the Force. J.J. Abrams stated in interviews she could have [become a Jedi] as well and chose not to so I think that demonstrates it's not a simple matter of awakening. It's only a matter of Force sensitivity.

A lot of people actually think she will take up her heritage at some point and J.J. is giving subtle hints towards that...I'm more skeptical.

You know what the real reason is? I think a friend summed it up very well: "Carrie fisher was known to get into cocaine and drugs in the 80's therefore she lost the force. Jedi never do dope." I'm a terrible person I know.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Having just got back from the movie, I will post something that I hope will be an echo from earlier in the thread. Kylo Ren is a fucking dweeb and Rey is a Mary Sue. I want Luke to tell Rey that she isn't hot shit and I hope she carries on the family tradition of getting a hand cut off.

 

[ServebotFrank]

-Han's death was fine. I saw it coming a mile away, but I thought it was handled well. I actually like the concept of Kylo being "seduced" by the Light side, as if it's something to be resisted. It actually ties in with Mas's hints at the idea of a cycle of Light and Dark, that the Jedi and Sith were but pawns/proxies of the sides of the Force, rather than the main players themselves.

-I actually liked Poe's character...kind of. It's a plothole (one of many) how we somehow makes it back to the Resistance base from Jakku, or survived being thrown from a crashed TIE fighter (when you're thrown out of a crashing plane or car, tell me how you survived), but that he's conspicuously NOT a jerk to Finn is a nice touch.

-The ending isn't one I'd equate to the Matrix Reloaded, but it does have its own problems. Why is Rey handing out Luke's lightsaber to him? He presumably has his own (the green one), and IMO, it would regress his character to use the old one. Also, how did that lightsaber even be retrieved? It...oh yes, contrivance.

-The Resistance and First Order are at least touched on in the EU, but, yes. It's like this film went to the opposite end of the spectrum from the prequels. That it mentions a "Republic" and promptly effectively destroys that Republic in the same breath. It subverts an unexplained status quo to re-establish the OT status quo.

-Rey...ugh. Let me put it this way:

Ep. I: Anakin has no Jedi training. He has basic Force abilities, but nothing else.

Ep. II: 10 years have passed. Anakin is a competent lightsaber fighter, but is still defeated by Dooku relatively easily.

Ep. III: 3 years have passed. Anakin's at his strongest, and defeats Dooku easily. However, after a very long battle, he's finally brought down by Obi-Wan.

Ep. IV: Luke is given basic lightsaber lessons, but never uses it in combat.

Ep. V: 3 years have passed. Luke has presumably self-taught himself, and gets advice from Yoda. That said, he's still bested by Vader (as Anakin was bested by Dooku), and for similar reasons (overconfidence, rushing in), though puts up a valiant fight.

Ep. VI: 1 year has passed. Luke is now finally Vader's equal, but can only defeat him by channelling the Dark Side, and pulling himself back at the last moment. He's powerless before Palpatine, but is saved by Vader at the cost of his own life.

Ep. VII: Rey, with no lightsaber training whatsoever, and having tapped into the Force over the course of a day, beats Kylo Ren in an under-choreographed (yes, I'm calling it that) lightsaber duel.

See the problem here? Rey has given us no reason to fear Kylo Ren. Anakin and Luke both have an arc that includes their proficiency in combat, with Luke succeeding where Anakin fails. Rey has not failed. Rey is more powerful than either of them. Yes, Luke's training is smaller than Anakin's, but really? And don't say "oh, she has experience with a staff" (different weapon, different weight, diferent style) or "Ren was wounded" (he still easily beat Finn). I suppose this time Rey will beat Snoke (the Palpatine equivalent) with no help whatsoever.

Well it's not only established that Kylo is still in training, but he was hit by Chewie's Bowcaster which the movie makes a point to mention (too many times) how strong the damn thing is. Kylo pretty much took a blast from one of the strongest blasters around and he took at hit from Finn in the shoulder. Rey also is no newbie to melee fighting, she even swings the lightsaber like a staff. All the force really does in Lightsaber combat is help you predict your opponent's moves a bit better. Kylo is also kind of emotional at this point, he just killed Han and feels like he's being humiliated by Finn and Rey. Notice how he keeps hitting his open wound in order to feel more pain? He's simply too emotional during his fight with Rey to really focus. He's kind of just swinging his lightsaber like a club while Rey is totally calm. There's a lot more going onto that fight outside of the sword play that contributed to Kylo's loss. I imagine the next movie will have Rey lose.

Finn also didn't look like he had too much experience with melee combat, he wielded the lightsaber with two hands swung it around like a baseball bat like he didn't know what he was doing.

Also Luke does not have his green lightsaber, he threw it away on the Death Star after he defeated Vader and rejected Palpatine. It was him realizing that he doesn't need the lightsaber anymore not trusting himself with it. So unless he went back and grabbed it after throwing it away dramatically, he probably doesn't possess a lightsaber anymore.

 

[Nazulu]

I was more laughing at this place being populated by the goth kids from South Park. But there is a point where you might want to admit the problem could be you instead of everyone else as crazy as that sounds.

Your comment (and this one) is really mean spirited and I'm the one that could have the problem -_-

Even if you were right about the people complaining, you are still the one lighting the flames.

 

[StormShaun]

It was good, but the hype failed me, and it even wasn't because of the spoilers I ran into.

As many people are pointing out, I also felt that it was too close to Episode 4.
Mostly because it felt like a start... and not a start of a new trilogy, but a COMPLETE new start.
As we know though, a lot of the expanded universe got cut, but still, the universe is there, it IS big, and I didn't feel like we saw much of it.

From the start, we see that Luke is "THE LAST JEDI", which only made me go "whaaat?" Like, really, he tried to set up the Jedi Academy, got wreaked by Ren, and nobody except him got out. That's a little annoying, wouldn't there be some other force/saber users good enough to leave or run? There must be, I refuse to admit that all the Jedi just simply lost and got 99% destroyed. Heck, I bet some from Order 66 survived... somehow. I... I just hope there are MORE Jedi. It's only so I can hope for some more Jedi characters in the future.
Heck, add Kyle Katarn and other popular EU characters, whatever would make the world FEEL like it has been thirty years after the Ep 6.

I won't bother with story, since I was okay with it, and once again, it felt a lot like Episode 4.
So I'll deal with the new characters. I'll say this first... I want more Captain Phasma, I don't know, but just from those few scenes, I really like her, but I can tell they're trying to make her the new Fett... unless he's alive, which would make many people happy. Still, more Phasma, heck, if SHE can be turned, that'll be even more interesting. I can imagine she could be involved in a sub-story that gets the Republic the clone troopers from the prequels. (Which means Republic Commando 2. )

Speaking about the Republic, we really didn't get much of it. I saw the Resistance and Republic as two sides of the same coin. One keeps the peace, the other keeps fighting. Still, I have no idea why they had to call the Remnant "The First Order", plus like many others, I have no idea how they kept a lot of their power... FOR THIRTY YEARS!

Anyway, the character I liked after that was Finn. I've ALWAYS wanted to see a "good" Stormtrooper, and I liked how he wanted to run, but is most likely wanting to fight, and now he's basically Poe's bff. What disappointed me, was the end with the lightsaber fight. Yes, naturally I can't expect him to do anything good since he's a newbie with it, but it could have been a little longer. After all, I'm sure many of us were thirsting after more saber fights. Yet, nah, he gets countered as you would in Dark Souls 2, and is now out of the fight... for now.

It disappointed me, because I REALLY wanted him to become a Jedi. I wanted HIM to be the subject of the title (I mean, I don't mind Ray, but I'll say about that in a second).
Heck, in this case, I still hope he becomes a Jedi. Because even if Ray becomes a Jedi, I can see her more as a "Jedi Consular", and I could see Finn become a "Jedi Guardian." At least as a good in saber combat and a slow force learner.

As said before, I just want more Jedi... but then again, no everyone can be a Jedi.

Onto Ray, I'll admit, I like her. A good hero character, but I feel that they're pushing "She's Luke's daughter" vibes. I'd just plain hate it if that's revealed in Ep 8, because then it'll be episode 5 all over again! Anyway, just like Finn, I like how she started, and where she went to develop. My tiny problem here, was once again the end saber fight. Finn got nailed, yet, somehow, Ray actually somewhat fought, even if that was the first time she revealed the blue blade. Even if you can call Deus ex force", she JUST got it. Ren/Ben should have at least got hit once or twice, but THAT many times.

Spoiler

So yeah, she was pretty OP there.
Anyway, I'm gonna call it quits here for my rant, I just hope that there is a more original plot in the next episode.
Other than that, I liked it. (Well, except how the "Internet spoiler" part was very telegraphed, and how weak Ren was. >.>)

Also, Poe was cool.
I can see him as the new Wedge.
But with that question, where is Wedge? (At least in the movie/EP 7 timeline)

 

[Fdzzaigl]

I don't think so, in the films, the first, Luke doesn't even face Vader, the second he gets utterly destroyed and only in the 3rd he manages to beat him, with the time between films can be between months and years. Ray defeating Darth Zuko is like kid-Anakin defeating Darth Maul in its stupidity especially as she wasn't trained in the force AT ALL until the events in the film. Besides, supposedly Zuko is the best student of Darth Titan, it destroys any build up to a fight in the next films.

Do you really believe "Darth Zuko" compares to Vader or Maul? His obvious lack of self-control and the fact that he nearly collapses not only from his wounds but from grief over what the hell just happened between him and his father should make that fairly obvious.

Again though, training has a place in the universe, but it's not the main thing that matters. The force has always been about
a) overcoming impossible odds
b) connections between people and the events they're in through time and space, sometimes even linking itself with objects that have some significance.

This obsession with "power levels" crap is a recent development. I'm happy to see it go.

Plus I've got a feeling "Darth Zuko" will not be the main villain throughout the rest of the films, or not the only one anyhow.

 

[kris40k]

I feel they are going to be our new protagonists, with Po taking on the role of Han Solo, even if Rey now owns the Millennium Falcon.

I made an offhand comment about Rey having the Falcon now, and my GF corrected me, "Like hell, the Falcon is Chewie's; he just gave her a ride to Luke." and I realised that I made the assumption that it was her's now, but thinking about it, it makes complete sense that Han would have left it to Chewbacca who had been his co-pilot/lifebro forever.

 

[Yojoo]

The film rocked.

People are seriously misinterpreting the final fight between Rey and Kylo. Kylo looked all cool, but he is revealed to be critically under-trained and extremely conflicted. Plus, he took a damned bowcaster shot to the abdomen, so I was surprised he was still standing by the end of the film.

Rey, meanwhile, clearly represents something that we haven't yet seen in Star Wars. The title of this episode was "The Force Awakens", after all, which could easily suggest some form of personification of the Force. Somehow, this unassuming scavenger girl is connected personally and spiritually with the war raging around her, and she inexplicably finds the power to take a major role in the conflict. Accepting that seems, to me, to be roughly on the same level of suspension of disbelief as accepting Luke shooting down the Death Star in his first ever time piloting an X-wing without the aid of a targeting computer. We've been accepting "strong in the force" as a viable explanation for impossible feats in this series since 1977.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Accepting that seems, to me, to be roughly on the same level of suspension of disbelief as accepting Luke shooting down the Death Star in his first ever time piloting an X-wing without the aid of a targeting computer. We've been accepting "strong in the force" as a viable explanation for impossible feats in this series since 1977.

Amen brother.

I'm going to cross post myself from Reddit:

As much as there are numerous contextual clues supporting Kylo Ren's hindrance during that fight, we can also credit Rey with being an exceptionally powerful force sensitive. Like Luke, she was hidden on a desert planet with minimal life to keep her powers in hibernation so she wouldn't be immediately sniffed out. Like Luke, once she's thrown into situations of physical and mental stress her abilities start rapidly emerging. Like Luke, she is able to reach out to the Force during moments of extreme need and find a reserve of strength/ability that was not previously available.

That fight had a lot of stuff going on for BOTH of the characters, and a nice dichotomy between the two of them in terms of how they reached for strength (Ben through the murder of his father and pounding his wound to fire his rage, Rey in a moment of tranquility and surrender to the Force).

 

[Dazzle Novak]

The film rocked.

People are seriously misinterpreting the final fight between Rey and Kylo. Kylo looked all cool, but he is revealed to be critically under-trained and extremely conflicted. Plus, he took a damned bowcaster shot to the abdomen, so I was surprised he was still standing by the end of the film.

Rey, meanwhile, clearly represents something that we haven't yet seen in Star Wars. The title of this episode was "The Force Awakens", after all, which could easily suggest some form of personification of the Force. Somehow, this unassuming scavenger girl is connected personally and spiritually with the war raging around her, and she inexplicably finds the power to take a major role in the conflict. Accepting that seems, to me, to be roughly on the same level of suspension of disbelief as accepting Luke shooting down the Death Star in his first ever time piloting an X-wing without the aid of a targeting computer. We've been accepting "strong in the force" as a viable explanation for impossible feats in this series since 1977.

The fact you're trying to make this theory sound new and exciting (You mean to tell me there's a character of seemingly humble origins who's be "chosen" to fulfill some grand destiny? I do say, sir/madam, that is most unorthodox!) is the crux of my issues with the movie.

The "chosen one" monomyth shit is my least favorite part of Star Wars. Luke being able to fly military vessels because he presumably flew the equivalent of a crop duster for funsies in Space Arkansas is contrived horseshit, too. That doesn't make it a good idea to repeat 40 years later and that contrivance was offset by the fact Luke doesn't get to use his lightsaber in combat or dabble in Space Wizardry at all in A New Hope. Obi Wan lets him play with it to train on the way to Alderaan and that's only to set up the "Don't trust your eyes. Use the force" bit in the finale. The whole movie Chekhov Guns Luke's "one-in-a-million" shot, so it feels earned. Rey can Jedi Mind Trick and force grab from jump simply because it'd be unfortunate for her if she couldn't.

I don't mind Rey being able to fly the Millennium Falcon. I cheered when she pulled that boss maneuver so Finn could line up his shot. I gave a pass to all the "I speak Wookiee and can fix anything" stuff. I acknowledge that Kylo Ren was grievously wounded. That doesn't mean I have to misremember A New Hope and act like Rey's arc matched Luke's. It doesn't. Luke could barely force grab his own lightsaber when it was three feet away in Empire Strikes Back. He was partially dismembered the first time he went against a lightsaber-wielding opponent who was holding back.

All this griping aside, I'm excited to pay and go see the movie a second time. Not everyone who's bringing up complaints are joyless haters trying to rain on the parade.

 

[Exley97_v1legacy]

The film rocked.

People are seriously misinterpreting the final fight between Rey and Kylo. Kylo looked all cool, but he is revealed to be critically under-trained and extremely conflicted. Plus, he took a damned bowcaster shot to the abdomen, so I was surprised he was still standing by the end of the film.

Also, I got the feeling that he sort of underestimated just how Force sensitive Rey was and, when he had her on the edge of that cliff, wasn't entirely intent on killing her and instead wanted to turn her to the Dark Side (hence the line: "You need a teacher. I can show you the ways of the Force.")

Rey, meanwhile, clearly represents something that we haven't yet seen in Star Wars. The title of this episode was "The Force Awakens", after all, which could easily suggest some form of personification of the Force. Somehow, this unassuming scavenger girl is connected personally and spiritually with the war raging around her, and she inexplicably finds the power to take a major role in the conflict. Accepting that seems, to me, to be roughly on the same level of suspension of disbelief as accepting Luke shooting down the Death Star in his first ever time piloting an X-wing without the aid of a targeting computer. We've been accepting "strong in the force" as a viable explanation for impossible feats in this series since 1977.

YES. A thousand times, yes. I'm not sure why people think what Rey did was any less plausible than a farm boy totally untrained in the Force rocking a blaster and taking out Storm Troopers left and right (without getting hit once), swinging across a ravine in the Death Star with Leia on his hip, blowing TIE Fighters into pices on the Falcon, and yes, piloting an X-Wing, for the first time, and blowing up the goddamn Death Star.

All this fucking "Mary Sue" garbage about Rey is just that -- garbage.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

Calling Rey a Mary Sue is bullshit. Mary Suedom relates to a character's placement within a story ( i.e. does the universe and all the characters' lives seem to revolve around them?) not their skillset; making Mary Sues hyper-competent is simply how most hack writers justify the former aspect. Bella Swan is a Mary Sue and she sucks canonically being described as "plain-looking", "clumsy", etc. while demonstrating no talents whatsoever.

Turning around and calling Luke, as he stood by the end of A New Hope "the REAL Mary Sue" is both self-contradictory and inaccurate, however.

 

[Saltyk]

I feel they are going to be our new protagonists, with Po taking on the role of Han Solo, even if Rey now owns the Millennium Falcon.

I made an offhand comment about Rey having the Falcon now, and my GF corrected me, "Like hell, the Falcon is Chewie's; he just gave her a ride to Luke." and I realised that I made the assumption that it was her's now, but thinking about it, it makes complete sense that Han would have left it to Chewbacca who had been his co-pilot/lifebro forever.

On the other hand, Han was going to let her join his crew. And the Falcon needs at least two people to fly effectively. A pilot and co-pilot, if not also a gunner. So it's not like Chewie will be kicking her out of the ship. It may be his ship, but I fully expect Rey to be the pilot from here on.

Though, it would make sense for Chewie to be the official owner. He and Han have been friends for decades at this point and the both cared for each other, like brothers.