State Department Proposes "Trolling" Web-Based Islamic Extremists

[Lyri]

Can people get Trolling right please and stop attaching it to everything it is not?
So sick of reading the word trolling used in the wrong context.

I don't know how one would troll politely, the whole point of trolling is to incite a reaction. The first thing that came to mind when I read the title was this:

Now that's how you take down a website WITH FLAIR.

You, I like you.

....hang on.

"politely trolling" ?

That's a complete oxymoron. Trolling is done with the express purpose of being a dick about it.

What you're describing in this article is NOT trolling.

You are also fucking awesome.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

This entire thing is almost too dumb for public consumption. I'm afraid people will read this and die from an overload of stupid.

I've heard stupid and moronic ideas in my time, guess what is this one?

Lowering to their level and giving them ammunition... Seems legit...

Whoa, what are all these words in the op under the title?... eh, they're probably not important, I'll just jump straight into posting my reply, that will definitely not make me look foolish.




XD
--------
@ the topic
This is actually a good idea, stick a few voices of reason in amoung what would usually be an entirely biased/one-sided community, and point out some of the flaws in their arguements. Might even help some of the 'already devoted' from stewing over things and whipping themselves into action.

 

[mfeff]

The implications of this are fucking profound, and this is only one thing they admit to the public.

Some people are just blissfully ignorant of what's going on with the interwebs these days. . .

snip

Nothing I don't agree with here... nice post guy. Just gunna leave this little guy right here...

 

[sagitel]

but to undermine and demoralize them

terrorist: look there is a troll on the facebook shows that we are wrong. im so demoralized! i cant blowup my self anymore.

seriously? you make trolls and terrorists stop blowing up themselves?

are the minds(!)behind this ... thing mentally healthy?

but seriously, terrorists blow up themselves because of beliefs. and you must believe in something completely to do such thing and such believing cannot be undermined by some internet trolls. it will just fuel them. they see that they are being humiliated they beliefs are being mocked (which every extremist in the world cant bear) so they will be more determined to do terrorist acts hell even not extremists will be pissed about this.(talk about more pissed nuclear iran)

 

[Gunner 51]

Arguing with idiots is a very bad idea, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. While trolling is a step-up from the usual bombing runs, but I thought the US was looking to make trolling illegal.

But I'm also fairly certain that the U.S government has also tried trolling of it's own in foreign countries long before the internet was around.

Personally, the best thing to do is try to thrash it out with a proper, open debate free of hyperbole and government types. Show the arabic countries that the West isn't the corrupt idiocracy their leaders tell them it is - and conversely, the West can learn it's not all Mad Mullahs and suicide bombing over there.

I think common ground can be found and used as a foundation for further peace.

 

[RatRace123]

This is just stupid, but in a way that's so very very awesome I csn't help but love it.

 

[Darth_Payn]

They can recruit 12 year olds from XBox Live.

Wait, is the goal of this project to NOT piss off the would-be Islamic terrorists even more?

 

[Clearing the Eye]

This entire thing is almost too dumb for public consumption. I'm afraid people will read this and die from an overload of stupid.

I've heard stupid and moronic ideas in my time, guess what is this one?

Lowering to their level and giving them ammunition... Seems legit...

Whoa, what are all these words in the op under the title?... eh, they're probably not important, I'll just jump straight into posting my reply, that will definitely not make me look foolish.




XD
--------
@ the topic
This is actually a good idea, stick a few voices of reason in amoung what would usually be an entirely biased/one-sided community, and point out some of the flaws in their arguements. Might even help some of the 'already devoted' from stewing over things and whipping themselves into action.

Congratulations on missing the extended conversation the OP and I had.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

Congratulations on missing the extended conversation the OP and I had.

Oh no I saw your conversation. Didn't make your initial comment look any less silly.

I assumed you simply didn't read the OP properly before posting that because the alternative was even more laugh-worthy:

'people using logic, reasoning and facts to point out the flaws in jihadist persuaders arguments in order to hopefully provide a voice of reason to potential supporters of terrorism? Well I think that's the dumbest idea ever, infact it's so dumb people are going to die of stupid just reading about this plan.'


XD
yeah man, it's definitely so EXTREMELY stupid to try and reason with people and point out where the jihadists are quoting out of context or twisting the religion as they see fit, (since we totally know muslims aren't ever just reasonable/impressionable people, some of whom get lead astray by the words and manipulation of others, they're like born terrorists, right?).

Judging from your other replies though you're not that ignorant. You made a rush comment and looked a little silly, it's no big deal, everyone's done it at least once before, think of it from the angle of: 'you managed to make someone smile', that counts as like your good deed for the day or something, so any other good deeds you've done today go straight towards karma

(which is lucky since solve media is predicting 'falling pianos' on the way)

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Congratulations on missing the extended conversation the OP and I had.

Oh no I saw your conversation. Didn't make your initial comment look any less silly.

I assumed you simply didn't read the OP properly before posting that because the alternative was even more laugh-worthy:

'people using logic, reasoning and facts to point out the flaws in jihadist persuaders arguments in order to hopefully provide a voice of reason to potential supporters of terrorism? Well I think that's the dumbest idea ever, infact it's so dumb people are going to die of stupid just reading about this plan.'


XD
yeah man, it's definitely so EXTREMELY stupid to try and reason with people and point out where the jihadists are quoting out of context or twisting the religion as they see fit, (since we totally know muslims aren't ever just reasonable/impressionable people, some of whom get lead astray by the words and manipulation of others, they're like born terrorists, right?).

Judging from your other replies though you're not that ignorant. You made a rush comment and looked a little silly, it's no big deal, everyone's done it at least once before, think of it from the angle of: 'you managed to make someone smile', that counts as like your good deed for the day or something, so any other good deeds you've done today go straight towards karma

(which is lucky since solve media is predicting 'falling pianos' on the way)

If you spent half as much time being reasonable as you do attempting condescension and butchering your wording, you'd be a tour de force. You'd perhaps also see the futility of trying to convince madmen, religious zealots and the genuinely anti-social that they're wrong (in our opinion).

If you'd like to test out just how simple it is for strangers to nip such a problem in the butt, you could fly over to the war torn Middle East and have a chat with some disheveled youths yourself. Surely they have nothing but time to listen to the opinions of people currently living in foreign countries, not their burning, raped and miserable plot of land. That they are already so filled with hate and frustration, visiting a website dedicated to extremism and violence shouldn't be an issue, right?

While you're at it, Superman, maybe hop on down to the local ghetto and tell some brothers, sisters and children of gangbangers to ditch their family and friends. Again, they would certainly abandon their homes, culture and loved ones for you.

So please, continue on your current path. I'm sure they could use you at the U.N. Where individuals with advanced doctorates, experienced diplomats and the generally brilliant minded have failed, you and this legion of volunteers soon to be moderated, banned, ignored and fed into the hate machine, will doubtlessly succeed.

I can only wonder how profound your closing statement is, as it's impossible to decipher. "(which is lucky since solve media is predicting 'falling pianos' on the way)" A comment for the halls of brilliance to honour, no doubt.

 

[tmande2nd]

We shall troll on to the end. We shall troll in France, we shall troll on the seas and oceans, we shall troll with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall troll on the beaches, we shall troll on the landing grounds, we shall troll in the fields and in the streets, we shall troll in the hills; we shall never surrender,

 

[Saviordd1]

Why Islamic extremists specifically and not just extremists in general?

Because, as we all know, only Islamic extremists are dangerous. Christian and Jewish extremists are just expressing their beliefs.

OT: This is...uh, well, stupid and brilliant at the same time, I'd like to see how this turns out.

 

[MetalMagpie]

Why Islamic extremists specifically and not just extremists in general?

I'm assuming because the person who's driving the project is a Muslim. The emphasis seems to be on training young Muslims to remind their extremist-leaning peers what it is their religion actually says about murdering innocent civilians.

If you feel motivated to launch a similar project focusing on another type of extremists, I'm sure plenty of people will back you.

yes, pissing off people who willingly blow themselves and others up in your face is a really good idea....

I think the point is to make people rethink their extremist views (rather than leaving them to self-reinforce in their own forums) before they get to the point of actually signing up to a terrorist organisation.

There are various targeted campaigns going on in the UK to try to stop young Muslims becoming "radicalised" (acquiring extremist views), because it makes them vulnerable to being recruited by terrorist organisations (and ultimately end up involved in acts of terrorism). The campaigns I've heard of mostly involve talks at majority-Muslim schools and working with local Imams to confront individuals who are thought to be "at risk".

This internet campaign is a novel idea and it will be interesting to see how it progresses.

 

[jawakiller]

One day, trolling shall replace all standing armies... Okay probably not but it would be rather hilarious. Instead of a massive budget spent on tanks and fighters, it'll be used to buy Hotpockets and Doritos for the boys out there fighting for democracy.

Some fat guy in his mother's basement gets the Medal of Honor for, against all odds, defending his country from the evil trolling armies of North Korea. I think I should make a sketch out of this and throw it at youtube.

 

[A Satanic Panda]

They should recruit Boxxy! Boxxy vs Islamic Extremists . . . . I'd pay to watch that.

She's so very hot. In a strange way. A cute, strange way. A cute, strange, crazy meth addict kind of way.

Spoiler: Spoiled for those deathly allergic to cute.

Seriously, who would want to strap C4 to them selves after seeing her?

On a more serious note, Wouldn't it make more sense to say... DoS attack their recruiting websites? Or completely take them down via their web host?

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

*words*

sigh...

This is getting embarrassing man, please stop? You acting like a snarky asshole is completely uncalled for(you really need to lighten up, I extended the olive branch and everything, and instead you're having a sulk...), I see I've hurt your feelings quite badly, I am sorry for that. I was being light hearted and joking around, trying to be nice to you, pointing out why what you said sounded silly but also saying that's ok and we all do it sometimes.
I see however that you're not interested in remaining civil and good humoured so i doubt I'll reply to any comments you leave after this.

----

Spoiler: The entire point of this program, as explained in the OP, still seems to have flown over your head.

Maybe read magpie's post(above), he seems to get it. anyway:

Why are you jumping to the wild conclusion that I am a member of this program?

More importantly, where do you get off badmouthing volunteers who are trying to help the less fortunate?
Are volunteers at charity drives idiots too then? I mean, if an entire country like the US can't give enough charity to save all of the homeless and starving people in the world, then all these smaller charities should just not even bother, right?

It isn't about foreigners walking out into places and telling people what to think or abandon their lives, it's about educating/supporting local Islamic youth(who may not support terrorism but don't quite know how to defend their views in light of the claims extremists put forward) so that they in turn can use this knowledge to help disarm the brooding of their fellows who might otherwise fall into the traps laid by jihadist recruiters/supporters.

That is most certainly NOT a stupid idea at all, and even if you don't think it will work you still made yourself sound silly with such an over-reaction.

Stuff like rebutting jihadist claims that their religion justifies the killing of innocents by pointing out to them exactly where the Qur'an says that is most certainly NOT ok, so that they in turn can point it out to to their peers and not fall for the baiting of terrorist supporters is an amiable pursuit, and while some may not listen others might. This is directed at reasoning with people who are still on the fence, cutting out some of the potential support base for this extremism to expand to by opening some islamic peoples eyes to the manipulation they're being subjected to.

You don't learn about these sort of things if no one ever tells you. 'Knowledge is power' and so on.

Don't go condemning a whole group based on the actions/attitudes (not even that, your own assumptions of their attitude/actions) of a select few.

---
As for that last bit, it's pretty straight forward, solve media said 'falling pianos' as the verification code, I was talking about karam in my post. If you need extra explanation I can give it(though only if you stop being so grumpy) but it seems self explainatory.... (you know what karama is right?)

 

[Clearing the Eye]

*words*

sigh...

This is getting embarrassing man, please stop? You acting like a snarky asshole is completely uncalled for(you really need to lighten up, I extended the olive branch and everything, and instead you're having a sulk...), I see I've hurt your feelings quite badly, I am sorry for that. I was being light hearted and joking around, trying to be nice to you, pointing out why what you said sounded silly but also saying that's ok and we all do it sometimes.
I see however that you're not interested in remaining civil and good humoured so i doubt I'll reply to any comments you leave after this.

----

Spoiler: The entire point of this program, as explained in the OP, still seems to have flown over your head.

Maybe read magpie's post(above), he seems to get it. anyway:

Why are you jumping to the wild conclusion that I am a member of this program?

More importantly, where do you get off badmouthing volunteers who are trying to help the less fortunate?
Are volunteers at charity drives idiots too then? I mean, if an entire country like the US can't give enough charity to save all of the homeless and starving people in the world, then all these smaller charities should just not even bother, right?

It isn't about foreigners walking out into places and telling people what to think or abandon their lives, it's about educating/supporting local Islamic youth(who may not support terrorism but don't quite know how to defend their views in light of the claims extremists put forward) so that they in turn can use this knowledge to help disarm the brooding of their fellows who might otherwise fall into the traps laid by jihadist recruiters/supporters.

That is most certainly NOT a stupid idea at all, and even if you don't think it will work you still made yourself sound silly with such an over-reaction.

Stuff like rebutting jihadist claims that their religion justifies the killing of innocents by pointing out to them exactly where the Qur'an says that is most certainly NOT ok, so that they in turn can point it out to to their peers and not fall for the baiting of terrorist supporters is an amiable pursuit, and while some may not listen others might. This is directed at reasoning with people who are still on the fence, cutting out some of the potential support base for this extremism to expand to by opening some islamic peoples eyes to the manipulation they're being subjected to.

You don't learn about these sort of things if no one ever tells you. 'Knowledge is power' and so on.

Don't go condemning a whole group based on the actions/attitudes (not even that, your own assumptions of their attitude/actions) of a select few.

---
As for that last bit, it's pretty straight forward, solve media said 'falling pianos' as the verification code, I was talking about karam in my post. If you need extra explanation I can give it(though only if you stop being so grumpy) but it seems self explainatory.... (you know what karama is right?)

Your limp insults and (attempted) jabs do little to lend wit to your bumbling comments. Word to the wise: if you're going to pretend to be friendly and to sound witty, do so without the gleeful, aloof and painfully obvious attitude. Out and out saying what you mean would suffice. Don't worry, I'm not going to run and cry if you drop the mask and doing so would do wonders for your intellectual appearance. I know I've better things to do than read through any more of it and I'd hope you would, too.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Yes because fighting hate with hate always ends well.

 

[Loonyyy]

Why Islamic extremists specifically and not just extremists in general?

Because Muslim is a dirty word now. While I support treating the beliefs of the religious as nothing short of laughable, the racism and propaganda that's sprung up since the U.S. got bitten by the dog it had been kicking since the 80's is pretty sickening.

While I agree that the treatment of Muslims in the media has been awful for past few decades, I'd argue that the government is going after Islamic terrorism with this specifically for two reasons: The first being that the ideology behind anti-Western Islamic terrorism has the potential to be genuinely dangerous at the moment, and the second being that the world is full of young, tech-savvy Muslims who're keen to help put a stop to it. Helping them to mobilize is cost-effective and relatively straightfoward.

In reality, I see this doing nothing positive at all. Extremist groups, the kind actually serious enough to be dangerous, won't be affected by this. In fact, it's actually kind of hilarious (in a slightly sad way) that this is happening, that someone really thought this would be the way to go. Terrorist groups of any stripe, are terrorists because they cause fear, suffering and death. This isn't something you whip together some fresh faces teens to have a crack at. This isn't a pet project to bring people together and make a difference. We're talking about groups setting out to destroy and murder.

Yes, but the point isn't necessarily to destroy hardcore fundamentalists. It's to dissuade their followers. Radical movements, especially jihadic terrorist groups, NEED recruits. When their missions are generally one way affairs, the best way to fight terrorism is to encourage people not to be terrorists. Hence this. Also, as a volunteer movement, it doesn't actually cost anything.

What this whole thing will do is reinforce and remind the public of the propaganda the media and government spew out on a daily basis. "Look, guys. We're stopping them damn Muslims!" Hell, just the word Muslim means terrorist now. It conjurers up images of savages and tribal men beating women and blowing up buildings. Because that's all we see and that's all they want us to see--it's easier to allow and embrace the killing of faceless monsters than real people. Instead of educating the public and giving them the facts--the correct way to inspire change--we've got another group using Islam and extremist in their mission statement as if the two are one word.

You did read the article, right? Their asking mostly for muslims to participate. It's not about demonising muslims, it's about utilising moderates to dissuade people from doing something crazy. And it's got nothing to do with killing them. And nothing to do with making muslims be associated with terrorism. What nuttery is this?

Their motives are pure enough and I've little doubt there is anything but good intentions driving the campaign. Could well be a bunch of people wanting to make a difference and help put a stop to people getting hurt. But this method won't stop anything and it will continue to feed the hype machine. The cheesy sheen so thick the logo'd give you diabetes if you stared at it too long.

It won't feed any "hype machine" and the point, which you don't seem to grasp, is to encourage those who would consider such courses of action, that it's not the way to go. I think their biggest problem will be the admins of sites.

Shahed Amanullah, a senior technology advisor to the State Department, the Viral Peace nicely-troll-an-extremist program will aim to disrupt the virtual spaces most frequently occupied by would-be terrorists and Islamic extremists. Amanullah wants to train young Muslims from across the Islamic world to use "logic, humor, satire, [and] religious arguments, not just to confront [extremists], but to undermine and demoralize them" on forums, Facebook, and Twitter.

Since when did employing logic, humor, satire [and] religious arguments undermine and demoralize anyone? What an asshole.

Actually, demoralise in the strategic sense is more about shaking the conviction in a cause. So this is demoralising. It's not just "You can't win" or "We're the best", it can simply be "Your cause isn't worthwhile" or "We're not really enemies".

This guy sounds like a guerrilla marketeer used to sending in waves of poorly educated phone whores into forums to diffuse trash like... I dunno... Bioware incompetence. Secondly this particular tactic is as sound as wearing hot pink camo as far as stratagem. Why in the hell would someone advertise the fact that they were about to initiate this program in public circles? It's only a ruse as long as no one talks about it.

As long as the people involved don't say they are on forums, your argument holds no water.

Don't have to be a specialist to know that the best way to keep a secret is to keep it a secret.

It's a volunteer movement. They have to advertise to get volunteers. Duh.

Just another waste of time and resources on the war on error'. Nice job.

It's a volunteer movement, and the organisation of such is much less a waste of time and resources than mass murdering Afghanis.

To those saying it's about hate or sinking to their level-reread the article and not the headline. They're proposing using reason and logic, some satire, and quotes from the Qur-ran, and are trying to recruit Muslim volunteers. It's not hate, and to think so shows deliberate ignorance.

 

[chadachada123]

Why Islamic extremists specifically and not just extremists in general?

Christian extremists are mostly in Africa, so using the internet wouldn't be of much help there. Aren't many other types of militant extremists out there right now.