cant remember the last time i paid for windows mate. its pretty standard that you get windows with anything you buy nowadays.KingsGambit said:
Steam and Linux Are Now an Item
- Thread starter The Wooster
- Start date
You pay for windows in the cost of the prodcut, the actual computer you're buying would be a hundred or so euros/dollars etc cheaper without it.draythefingerless said:
Yet a custom rig without the Windows license is by far cheaper than the pre-assembled Windows-infected "things" ... Not to mention the fact that Windows 8 is the lovechild of Windows Phone and Windows 7, which simply doesn't suit me, as I'd prefer not having a gazillion layers of cluttered icons.draythefingerless said:
Combine that with great resource management, full control over the OS and near-immunity to most viruses due to said ability to tamper with the OS itself ...
Yes, I toootally don't see how Linux ever could be better than Windows, like ... at all.
As a linux user, this makes me very happy. Currently, I'm running steam through wine, and it's... unreliable. I'll be happy when I can run it without issues like that.
As for reasons to like linux (ubuntu in particular)
1) FREE - it's free, open-source software. Oh, and most of your regular windows programs have a free equivalent. Money? No, I don't spend that.
2) lightweight - ubuntu can do most of what windows can, but more efficiently.
3) stability - there's a reason linux/unix has the server market. It's much less prone to catastrophic failures (or even minor bugs, assuming a knowledgeable user). It's also more resistant to viruses. This doesn't mean it can't get them, but it's a lot more resistant.
4) community - the ubuntu community is great. If I ever had a problem, posting it on the forums will get a constructive reply in almost no time.
5) drivers - I've had more "Plug and play" things work more like plug&play in linux than windows (never had to worry about driver install or anything like that. Results on this one may vary).
I understand that some people don't like linux, and I can understand some of the reasons.
1) there is still more software for windows than linux.
2) linux is harder to learn.
3) if you DO need a driver for something in linux, it's probably hard to find, or not there.
As for reasons to like linux (ubuntu in particular)
1) FREE - it's free, open-source software. Oh, and most of your regular windows programs have a free equivalent. Money? No, I don't spend that.
2) lightweight - ubuntu can do most of what windows can, but more efficiently.
3) stability - there's a reason linux/unix has the server market. It's much less prone to catastrophic failures (or even minor bugs, assuming a knowledgeable user). It's also more resistant to viruses. This doesn't mean it can't get them, but it's a lot more resistant.
4) community - the ubuntu community is great. If I ever had a problem, posting it on the forums will get a constructive reply in almost no time.
5) drivers - I've had more "Plug and play" things work more like plug&play in linux than windows (never had to worry about driver install or anything like that. Results on this one may vary).
I understand that some people don't like linux, and I can understand some of the reasons.
1) there is still more software for windows than linux.
2) linux is harder to learn.
3) if you DO need a driver for something in linux, it's probably hard to find, or not there.
Games require graphics and the graphics support on linux is terrible for all except a select few cards (NVidia using the proprietary drivers are considered good).
Valve are basically going to have to write half the drivers themselves to make this work, and add a ton more tech support infrastructure.
Could work in the long run (microsoft seem to want to alienate the desktop PC market with windows 8), but at the moment it's early days.
Valve are basically going to have to write half the drivers themselves to make this work, and add a ton more tech support infrastructure.
Could work in the long run (microsoft seem to want to alienate the desktop PC market with windows 8), but at the moment it's early days.
Uhh, wrong. "Graphics" is a wide field. I assume you're referring to DirectX generated graphics - mostly 3D (given that GL runs pretty darn well under Linux). And the reason for that is quite simple: Microsoft is responsible for DirectX - hence why you don't see it running natively on Linux.wizzy555 said:
The proprietary drivers are usually perfectly fine under Linux, as they actually work with the harware provided, rather than putting a layer in-between to "upgrade" the capabilities - most of which is useless screen clutter anyways.
It is very well possible to get "proper" graphics for games running in Linux, without "having to write drivers from scratch".
And, another point... Please, for the love of god, stop the bullshit about eye candy. Millions of people play bloody Minecraft, which only consumes due to the massive amount of objects in view.
It's nice that they're getting some support. They've been pretty vocal about it for long enough. For me it isn't worth the hassle of using Linux though. Maybe getting it to work properly is half the attraction but I just don't have the patience.
I didn't mention directX I was talking about the hardware drivers. It's not about eye candy, it's about getting basic sprites or polygons drawn without crashing compiz or metacity. I tried to install bastion from the humble bundle on ubuntu and couldn't get to the menu without a freeze and I was running with proprietary ATI drivers, (may not have been the graphics hardware but it neatly illustrates the uphill battle).FEichinger said:
1)If it ran "pretty crappy" YOU were the one responsible for it . There is a ton of documentation on linux configuration . If something doesn't work properly - disable it .Elate said:
2)To actually use Linux in its full capability , one must understand how it works ... and that is a pretty easy thing to do . Windows , however , ----- let's just say that knowledge of how Windows is built is limited to a few people , if not lacking completely .
3)Linux is , as was already said , FREE .
4)On the subject of OS installation : You have to be very very lacking in competence with computers (if you don't know how to make a new folder , you belong to this group of people) to get ANYTHING really wrong when installing almost any Linux distribution . Windows on the other side doesn't let you choose to do a lot of things - like installing your OS to ,say , 6 different partitions and having it run alongside another OS .
I get Windows 7 installed on my system (with all the applications I need and stuff) in 2 hours . I can have Kubuntu up and running within 45 Minutes , including the installation of applications I need and everything else .
5)Graphics : The proprietary ATi/AMD/nVidia drivers aren't really the best thing there could be (as is Linux' support for new Hardware...) , but one must understand that their teams are a lot smaller than the teams for the "regular" Windows drivers . Let's just be grateful that these drivers even exist . For everyone having problems with them - use the "standard" drivers that come with your Linux distro , they work OK on most systems .
I understand that it is now no longer even possible to buy a Dell PC without Windows on it, whether for personal or business use.draythefingerless said:
But even if it is included or bundled in, you are paying for it, just not separately. The cost of the Windows license is included in the cost your hardware. The manufacturer pay MS for the license and pass this cost onto you transparently in the sale price.
And here at work, for each client we have, there are additional costs too. Each machine needs an Exchange license, an AD license, MS SQL costs a small fortune and so on.
We're upgrading about 250 of our 700 PCs next month, and all our server infrastructure. We're going with Dell, but they absolutely will not sell the machines without a Win7 license each. So, we have to pay for 250 of those, then buy a site license for the same OS (it is significantly cheaper for us as a school than for a business at least), and the server OSs and CALs alone are a buttload of money. MS SQL they now charge us per CORE and we're getting 2x quad cores for our DB server, so have to buy 8 bloody licenses for it. Office 2010 for each machine as well....it's a very expensive business.
And then the annoying part, with Windows 8 due out in about 3-5 months, give or take, we either stay a generation behind or pay for a further upgrade cost site wide/per machine.
Yeah see, that's the thing, I buy an OS, because I don't want to piss around with its configs, sure you can flaunt being able to do that, but that doesn't make it in anyway superior, just a hell of a lot less user friendly. That's kinda like giving someone a half baked game, and saying "Well it runs amazingly once you configure it yourself." Well, I'm sure it does Mr Game Developer, but I'm not a programmer.Matthi205 said:
I do not understand peoples qualms with Windows, it runs exactly how I want it to, looks how I want it to, and generally just works like a charm. I've been using it for as long as I can remember, and if there's ever been an issue that I didn't like, I've been able to change it.
Free isn't an excuse, I would rather pay for Windows and not have to spent weeks setting the damn thing up so it works perfectly, and for someone with no experience using Linux, it does take weeks, it took 2 days to get my wireless adapter working on the damn thing.. (part in due to the fact that I didn't have a constant connection, so no instructions at all, or beloved documentation) So sure, saying you can set it up in 45 minutes is fine, once you've learned how, which can be said with pretty much anything in life. "Open heart surgery? Can do it with my eyes closed" After 7+ years at med school.
In overall useability, user friendliness, and general every day usage, I'm sorry but Linux falls flat on it's face. It's an elitists OS, nothing more, for people to claim other people have inferior knowledge of computers because they don't want to dick around behind the hood of their OS, and would rather it just work, and are willing to pay for that convenience.
See above regarding free.KingsGambit said:
KingsGambit said:
yeah but the license you pay for the dells is not nearly as much as a normal windows license(i dunno how things in america work, maybe MS fucks you guys in the ass there). also if youre a school, why dont you have MSDN and similar contracts? students and teachers get access to free Windows. the license here for a windows that comes with the pc is like....50 to 100 euros, wich in terms of software prices, is actually...cheap.
and another thing, forget about Windows 8. you have absolutely no necessity to upgrade from Win7 to 8. Win8 is Windows phone, wiht Windows 7 installed in it. i mean, its not changed. at all.
Now now, dont go insulting linux. it is a magnificent piece of engineering, its just been labeled wrong.Elate said:
Linux was never meant to be used by the wide general public, and i really hate the people who advertise it as a alternative to windows. its not. its not MEANT to be. Linux is an experiment people. always was, always will be. it is there so that people who like programming, and experimenting in OS and with total access to everything, can do it without restrictions. It is not meant to be better than Windows, because it isnt the same type of product, besides the idea of experimentation and research. Linux is a laboratory. Windows is a home or a business. Mac is....an art gallery.
You're saying Linux won't survive? Do you know how long Linux has been around for?DVS BSTrD said:
Now I can finally play PC games again, and not have to rely on an engineered-obsolescensce Xbox. Now I just have to hope they port Age of Wonders.
A straw man is designed as a form of attack. It's exact definition is an argument or idea based on fallacy. You cannot have a straw man without arguing, as it cannot exist outside of false and negative creation. To falsely represent an opposing perspective *is* an attack.Lukeje said: