Steam, banning players for being generous?
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I was going to make a point about price discrimination but then I read through some of the posts in this thread and decided there's just too much ignorance going around to bother.
Let me just say that there are plenty of reasons companies might charge more for a product in different regions that do not involve them simply being dicks.
Let me just say that there are plenty of reasons companies might charge more for a product in different regions that do not involve them simply being dicks.
Price adjustments depending on region are nothing new at all. Now, if he messaged people privately through email then I think Valve is wrong in assuming he was compensated from them for purchasing it for them. If they messaged eachother through Steam messages like "Sure, just pay my paypal here *insert link*" and all that, then I don't blame Steam for banning him. My verdict? It depends how he messaged them, if it was through email and they never contacted eachother through Steam, then I think it was wrong for Valve to assume he was buying it for them at a discounted price, since I would respond to them that "hey, these are my friends from highschool, we all went our separate ways but we game online. I bought them gifts for christmas" since Valve wouldn't have proof that you bought it for them.AndyFromMonday said:
If you're referring to acquiring an uncensored copy of a game in say, Germany (where said game was refused classification by law), then yes, Steam is definitely in the right by protecting their own asses in preventing the sale/gift/distribution of the uncensored copy in said region... It would be absurd to think otherwise.9_6 said:
That's naive thinking if I ever saw any. The sale of any product (whether it be digital or not) is governed by local laws, and Valve is not going to risk causing unnecessary trouble by circumventing any of these local laws.Roxor said:
He was doing it through PayPal, and yes, it's easy for Steam to determine whether or not the user was being compensated for these "gifts".thedeathscythe said:
If you actually read the post, you'll see that I said it's okay for people who are either getting screwed over by an overarching system (i.e. a monopoly on a certain good; or something like a union of all the gaming retailers, who all raise game prices because they know they won't get undercut) or something. If you're getting a different product (like one that hasn't been bullshitified by a nanny state,) then that's fine. I'd say that even if the higher price was because of taxes, and you either disagreed with the idea of taxes or didn't like what your government was doing with the money, that's morally alright (though still quite legally wrong.) In the case that all the above options have been exhausted and you're just being a miser, then you're an asshole.9_6 said:
And, fyi, Valve has the right to pretty much ban anyone for any reason they want, and it's totally legal (I think.) Whether they had any good reason to do so is the real question, which is being debated here. And in this case, it seems that Valve could be taken up on grounds of tax evasion, which isn't really good for the company at all.
So, from what I've read in the comments, this situation is like DRM?
Valve jacked up prices, which caused some guy to do something illegal, but it's Valve's fault in the first place?
Also, to all Valve haters, we aren't fanboys, you're just haters.
Valve jacked up prices, which caused some guy to do something illegal, but it's Valve's fault in the first place?
Also, to all Valve haters, we aren't fanboys, you're just haters.
Bollocks. That analogy is simply flat wrong, as you're legitimately paying for the exact same product. Why should we have to pay different prices in different countries for a digital distribution which eliminates all the traditional logistics costs? Borderlands for a long time was $29.99 on the US store and $79.99 on the Australian one. How is that fair when our dollar is worth around the same?Blue_vision said:
Um, don't the devs and publishers set the prices in Steam?
I'm pretty sure they do. If so, Valve has to support the dev's interests, unless they lose them.
I don't think all the blame lays on Steam here.
I'm pretty sure they do. If so, Valve has to support the dev's interests, unless they lose them.
I don't think all the blame lays on Steam here.
I almost never used Steam, but I remember this much:
If you buy a game and gift it someone overseas, it's good and works perfectly fine (According to some of my friends and people even here, the TOS on Steam says so).
The user in question was getting payed through PayPal by overseas people to buy games at reduced prices. They weren't being gifted with, for a lack of better terms, 'free gifts'. What this user was doing is against the terms of service. Not because it a bad thing he was doing, but because he was working as the middle-man in the entire thing, and that is illegal when money is involved with one side of the part being a vendor and the other the buyer.
For a lack of better expression, let me say it this way: you send you Uncle 20K to buy a Mini in the US, at which point he will bring it back with him to...lets say Romania. In Romania, the Mini costs about 40K, because of demand and lack of such a car in a country which is used to more in brand names, like BMW, and etc, long complicated story but you with me?
Your Uncle will have to pay Taxes first upon arriving in Europe and secondly to enter said country (Romania) if the car is to be 'imported' or he can simply drive with it and make it his own if he gets a temporary plate to avoid all this, at which point, you get the car, but still it was illegal because HE BYPASSED PROTOCOL STANDARDS TO GET YOU A CAR WHICH WASN'T A NORMAL GIFT, since you payed with your money and avoided the governmental regional tax in the first place.
Not the best example, but let me finish it up.
Steams abuse of the exchange rate has been long overdue done and needs to be changed, people in Venezuela need to pay sometimes well near 200$ for a single new copy of a game AT RETAIL STORES, so Steam is kinda a break for them since they don't need to pay so much by greedy shop keepers. Also, Steam is not all to blame here...don't forget about the Dev's, a few indie ones actually made it their crusade to screw people wallets.
However, instead of the smart-arsed people, complaining about how Steam is banning a guy for all the right reasons, why they don't make their voice heard at Steam, and ask them to insert a baseline conversion? I'm pretty sure, delaying the public release of a game by a couple of days, to get exchange rates correct based upon IP from country (at least the ones who are stable) would shut up a great many deal of people...if not, they can all go back and just enjoy what they have, because some people, still pay 200$ for a copy of Dead or Alive on the PS2.
If you buy a game and gift it someone overseas, it's good and works perfectly fine (According to some of my friends and people even here, the TOS on Steam says so).
The user in question was getting payed through PayPal by overseas people to buy games at reduced prices. They weren't being gifted with, for a lack of better terms, 'free gifts'. What this user was doing is against the terms of service. Not because it a bad thing he was doing, but because he was working as the middle-man in the entire thing, and that is illegal when money is involved with one side of the part being a vendor and the other the buyer.
For a lack of better expression, let me say it this way: you send you Uncle 20K to buy a Mini in the US, at which point he will bring it back with him to...lets say Romania. In Romania, the Mini costs about 40K, because of demand and lack of such a car in a country which is used to more in brand names, like BMW, and etc, long complicated story but you with me?
Your Uncle will have to pay Taxes first upon arriving in Europe and secondly to enter said country (Romania) if the car is to be 'imported' or he can simply drive with it and make it his own if he gets a temporary plate to avoid all this, at which point, you get the car, but still it was illegal because HE BYPASSED PROTOCOL STANDARDS TO GET YOU A CAR WHICH WASN'T A NORMAL GIFT, since you payed with your money and avoided the governmental regional tax in the first place.
Not the best example, but let me finish it up.
Steams abuse of the exchange rate has been long overdue done and needs to be changed, people in Venezuela need to pay sometimes well near 200$ for a single new copy of a game AT RETAIL STORES, so Steam is kinda a break for them since they don't need to pay so much by greedy shop keepers. Also, Steam is not all to blame here...don't forget about the Dev's, a few indie ones actually made it their crusade to screw people wallets.
However, instead of the smart-arsed people, complaining about how Steam is banning a guy for all the right reasons, why they don't make their voice heard at Steam, and ask them to insert a baseline conversion? I'm pretty sure, delaying the public release of a game by a couple of days, to get exchange rates correct based upon IP from country (at least the ones who are stable) would shut up a great many deal of people...if not, they can all go back and just enjoy what they have, because some people, still pay 200$ for a copy of Dead or Alive on the PS2.
A blog post that only bases its conclusions on stuff they heard from developers is NOT a factual source, especially when half the comments are people who are those special dickheads who, when they have established their own opinion (Typically by reading other people's and haven't even downloaded Steam) scream bloody murder and distort 'comments' into 'facts'.lacktheknack said:
There are trade laws that mean steam has to charge what it charges.
Secondly, if they can afford to pay you the equivalent of the US price, they can afford to buy the game.
It's not generosity at all. Generosity would be buying them the game without thought of return.
Edit: Also, I pay about $3 import tax on all the games I buy, and that's because of what the Government has established here, not because of what Steam has decided to add on.
Secondly, if they can afford to pay you the equivalent of the US price, they can afford to buy the game.
It's not generosity at all. Generosity would be buying them the game without thought of return.
Edit: Also, I pay about $3 import tax on all the games I buy, and that's because of what the Government has established here, not because of what Steam has decided to add on.
Gather said:
they were angry because they could get into some HUGE legal trouble with players in tax evasion. Its not thier fault all games are more expensive in other countries, its the taxes on the games. The US has hugly abnormally low tax compared to all other first world countries, in all forms of taxation
also this
Zer_ said: