I understand that, but most new franchises don't get as much coverage, hype, or promises lumped in either. Brink wasn't neglected, it was rushed out the door.Ultratwinkie said:
Stolen Pixels #258: Where the Boys Are
- Thread starter Shamus Young
- Start date
This is said about nearly every game that hits the market. The first week of online play is rarely a smooth affair.subtlefuge said:
I'm not saying the game is terrible, but there is a difference between the game we were shown and told about, and the final product.MajorDolphin said:
Is anyone else bothered by the smaller font of words and generally the comic, since the number 244? It just really irks me.
As a person who finds smaller breasts attractive, yes I am. Both from a "quit pandering and objectifying" standpoint and a purely aesthetic standpoint.WanderingFool said:
In what universe do men usually go shoot each other for sport?poiumty said:
Paintball? Someone's not been watching Community lately
I think people are overlooking another issue here. Sure, there is laziness, and people might try and make some kind of "boy's club" arguement, and then voice suspicians of the sexual preferances of the development team, however there is a big one:
Fear of socio-political backlash.
Back when City Of Heroes launched City Of Villains and it's "Mastermind" class, there were questions about why there were no female minions. The reason for this as I remember it was started as being the "potential for abuse".
Look at all the videos people make on the internet, all kinds of crude garbage. You start throwing female models out there and inevitably your going to see all kinds of misogynistic stuff being produced, especially when there is a lot of potential to put guns between a girl's legs, or walk around with your pets in tow and bake them in fire, or make a character who sits around "pimping his hoes" to get attention. I'm sure if you think you can come up with things you've already seen along these lines.
I think the question comes down to a game developer looking at their game, and weighing the pros and cons, what can be done with their engine, and the odds of someone coming after them with accusations of creating a misogyny simulator. Also some developers have more guts than others.
The point I'm making here is that this kind of thing apparently fits into the thinking of some game developers. While people will say it's inexcusable for games to NOT have a female character option, due to all of the ones that do, I think they overlook some of the reasons why people might not want to do it.
Speaking entirely for myself, Brink is an over the top, testosterone laden shooter. It's intentionally catering the the absolutly lowest human denominator to begin with. The exact kind of people who would try and lure a female model onto the top of a pointy building or whatever in exactly the right position for it to be lewd, take pictures of it, blow it to pieces with the most gory weapons possible, and post it on Youtube with their commentary. All games are going to see some of this stuff, but Brink by it's very nature might generate more of this given the game's style, and the player base being targeted. You might not agree, but we might very well be looking at a design team acting out of a combination of responsibility and fear of the repercussions. The fact that other game developers have taken risks with similar games and gotten away with it, does not nessicarly mean that other developers want to roll those dice.
I'd also point out that while I don't play it (so am hardly an expert) "Team Fortress 2" is a similar kind of game, which is also targeting a similar demographic. I don't believe ANY of the characters in that game are female either, despite some theories I've heard about The Pyro (who is too androgynous to tell... they might have answered that in the comics, I don't follow it as I said, but again it probably wound't bait the same kind of "satisfaction" given how the model looks). I honestly haven't heard many criticisms of Valve for what is basically the same practice, though as I said, I'm hardly an expert on TF2. With some of the TF2 videos though, I'd imagine if there was a resident hottie "crude" wouldn't even describe the usage the model would be put through by the core audience of that game given what I've already seen.
I know it's not "polite" to talk about core user bases in a negative way, and my intention is not to flame in this case, but to explain thinking. I am well aware of the fact that arguements can be made against everything I said, but my point isn't to say that this is an entirely right and proper thing to do, just that I think it figures into a lot of game generes being dominated by male characters. Also understand that it's not so much about what the players are going to do, but about the attention it generates. If you have 10,000 videos showing up on Youtube of women being molested and killed in various ways by laughing players giving commentary that's going to warrent complaints, not to mention a lot of people deciding they don't want themselves or their kids associated with this, even if the people doing it represent a small portion of the user base... and yes I say "kids", right or wrong, despite the "M" label, game developers very much DO want the youth demographic playing those games as a general rule. The "Dead Space 2" advertising campaign more or less makes that point. I however believe (as an unrelated point) that it's the job of parents to actually control access to the games by minors, not the goverment's. However the more outrageous people are with your game, the more likely that's going to get mum and daddums to actually not buy the game for Junior and that means lost sales.
Fear of socio-political backlash.
Back when City Of Heroes launched City Of Villains and it's "Mastermind" class, there were questions about why there were no female minions. The reason for this as I remember it was started as being the "potential for abuse".
Look at all the videos people make on the internet, all kinds of crude garbage. You start throwing female models out there and inevitably your going to see all kinds of misogynistic stuff being produced, especially when there is a lot of potential to put guns between a girl's legs, or walk around with your pets in tow and bake them in fire, or make a character who sits around "pimping his hoes" to get attention. I'm sure if you think you can come up with things you've already seen along these lines.
I think the question comes down to a game developer looking at their game, and weighing the pros and cons, what can be done with their engine, and the odds of someone coming after them with accusations of creating a misogyny simulator. Also some developers have more guts than others.
The point I'm making here is that this kind of thing apparently fits into the thinking of some game developers. While people will say it's inexcusable for games to NOT have a female character option, due to all of the ones that do, I think they overlook some of the reasons why people might not want to do it.
Speaking entirely for myself, Brink is an over the top, testosterone laden shooter. It's intentionally catering the the absolutly lowest human denominator to begin with. The exact kind of people who would try and lure a female model onto the top of a pointy building or whatever in exactly the right position for it to be lewd, take pictures of it, blow it to pieces with the most gory weapons possible, and post it on Youtube with their commentary. All games are going to see some of this stuff, but Brink by it's very nature might generate more of this given the game's style, and the player base being targeted. You might not agree, but we might very well be looking at a design team acting out of a combination of responsibility and fear of the repercussions. The fact that other game developers have taken risks with similar games and gotten away with it, does not nessicarly mean that other developers want to roll those dice.
I'd also point out that while I don't play it (so am hardly an expert) "Team Fortress 2" is a similar kind of game, which is also targeting a similar demographic. I don't believe ANY of the characters in that game are female either, despite some theories I've heard about The Pyro (who is too androgynous to tell... they might have answered that in the comics, I don't follow it as I said, but again it probably wound't bait the same kind of "satisfaction" given how the model looks). I honestly haven't heard many criticisms of Valve for what is basically the same practice, though as I said, I'm hardly an expert on TF2. With some of the TF2 videos though, I'd imagine if there was a resident hottie "crude" wouldn't even describe the usage the model would be put through by the core audience of that game given what I've already seen.
I know it's not "polite" to talk about core user bases in a negative way, and my intention is not to flame in this case, but to explain thinking. I am well aware of the fact that arguements can be made against everything I said, but my point isn't to say that this is an entirely right and proper thing to do, just that I think it figures into a lot of game generes being dominated by male characters. Also understand that it's not so much about what the players are going to do, but about the attention it generates. If you have 10,000 videos showing up on Youtube of women being molested and killed in various ways by laughing players giving commentary that's going to warrent complaints, not to mention a lot of people deciding they don't want themselves or their kids associated with this, even if the people doing it represent a small portion of the user base... and yes I say "kids", right or wrong, despite the "M" label, game developers very much DO want the youth demographic playing those games as a general rule. The "Dead Space 2" advertising campaign more or less makes that point. I however believe (as an unrelated point) that it's the job of parents to actually control access to the games by minors, not the goverment's. However the more outrageous people are with your game, the more likely that's going to get mum and daddums to actually not buy the game for Junior and that means lost sales.
Ehhh...
If you've ever played MGO, you'll know that it was originally released with only male character models, and then the first expansion introduced female character models. I actually kind of like this idea, because the amount of people using the vanilla game and the amount of people using the expansions and choosing to create a female character was unbalanced, but this to me seemed about right for a game based in the present (or twenty minutes in to the future, as is probably more appropriate) due to the way we use the military in real life.
I could see them being added in an expansion pack (be it a full one or an expansion exclusively for customisation, as I reckon could easily happen on a game that sells itself with that as one of its main points).
If you've ever played MGO, you'll know that it was originally released with only male character models, and then the first expansion introduced female character models. I actually kind of like this idea, because the amount of people using the vanilla game and the amount of people using the expansions and choosing to create a female character was unbalanced, but this to me seemed about right for a game based in the present (or twenty minutes in to the future, as is probably more appropriate) due to the way we use the military in real life.
I could see them being added in an expansion pack (be it a full one or an expansion exclusively for customisation, as I reckon could easily happen on a game that sells itself with that as one of its main points).
I am actually happy that there were no females in brink. The half of the players in the game would be just bimbos in bikinis and then there would be THAT GUY who tries to hit on them eventhough even an idiot knows that 90% of female characters in game are just horny 12 year olds.
Praise them for leaving females out.
Praise them for leaving females out.
I would have made a sexist joke about how all the females are living on an alternate version of the Ark that isn't completely screwed but...
Oh...
I just did.
Sorry.
But besides that, I have no beef with there not being any females. These are the front lines in terrorist war, that's the last thing I want to think about.
Oh...
I just did.
Sorry.
But besides that, I have no beef with there not being any females. These are the front lines in terrorist war, that's the last thing I want to think about.
What I would pay... Okay, so am I the only male that would find a game that showed an awesome FPS that contained only women of all shapes, sizes, clothing, and ethnicity... hot? I know it's pretty damn sexist, but damn...the possibilities. And "boys" only want to play games that only have sweaty muscle men running around? The irony of all this is classic.lesterley said:
Who cares 90% of female characters are played by male with the desire to trick someone else into thinking their female. Rainbow Six Vegas is the only shooter I know of that gives you this option anyway so why pick on Brink. To which you respond it's highly customizable to which I counter so why not pick one gender and focus on it? I haven't even met any women playing Brink yet anyway. Save yourself the time and don't quote this and explain to me that you're a female that plays Brink because you would be one to the several hundred men.
A) They aren't deliberately alienating people. It would be very expensive to add another 3 sets of character models, much more work than just adding a few outfits.Soylent Dave said:
B) It isn't "half their potential audience." While I do not think women are inferior at playing these games, women are generally far less interested in playing games that revolve around killing people*. Men are not better at playing these games, but we are far more interested in playing them.
*EDIT: Yes, I know Brink is an objective based shooter rather than a deathmatch game.
Well, they probably are going to do what Insomniac did and make the Female Models DLC. It'll make people shut up, and it's a better use of money than Horse Armor.
Seriously, 20 bucks for this shit?
Seriously, 20 bucks for this shit?
And you take that game and you make humans almost going extinct, with only one way to ensure a next generation. Meaning every dead female is not just a her life gone but any child she can bare. Come on Escapist is it really that hard to figure out that Women are more valuable then men?Ian Caronia said:
Also in CoD you are mostly Special FOrces which is only open to men in the U.S.