Stormcloaks are too mainstream.

[Elsarild]

Personally I go the way of the Stormcloaks because they're fighting to keep their identity, though oftimes to uncomfortable extremes(I'm still pondering whether to join them just because I don't want to get rid of Jarl Baalgruf, MY Jarl!). One thing many people have been saying is that the Empire would be the "better" choice since a united Empire would have more of a chance of standing against the Aldmer Dominion. In response to this I would like to point out several things, all written out on the Elder Scrolls wiki pages for each province:

-Hammerfell is no longer part of the Empire, have beaten off the Aldmer, and probably have no wish to join the Empire ever again.
-Morrowind is no longer a functioning Dunmer region, having been invaded by Argonians and gone through political and natural disasters. Most Dunmer have fled either to Solstheim or Skyrim.
-Elsweyr and the Black Marsh have both declared independance.
-Orsinium in the Fourth Era no longer exists, due to war with High Rock and Hammerfell, and many Orcs have fled to Skyrim.
-Valenwood and Summerset Isle are part of the Aldmer Domain
-High Rock I couldn't find anything clearly stating whether or not they are still part of the Empire

So this means that the Empire is Cyrodiil, Skyrim and possibly High Rock. Not exactly what I would call a "united Empire" in the first place. Skyrim would be better off making an alliance with High Rock or Hammerfell, despite past grievances(still better relations than those they have with anyone else on the continent at this point).

So, basically, because the empire has lost power and Regions, you fight to make Skyrim independant as well, or at the very best, forge 2 smaller alligences, so the empire will be even weaker and make it an even easier task for the Dominion to push around/destroy utterly.

Hammerfell and High Rock dosen't stand a chance on their own, and adding in a disfunctional land like skyrim, that casts out citizens of both High rock and Hammerfell if Ulfric is to be crowned High King, that isn't good for diplomatic reasons, as well as uniting Skyrim itself.

Sorry, I can't follow that train of tought.

 

[Lug100]

Also, they didn't try to cut my head off for no damn reason, fuck the Empire, seriously.

I think your mistaking one officer for the whole Empire.
The guy with the list seemed unsure and didnt really want to kill you, but that ***** in charge was the one who wanted to simply kill you, probaly because she was too lazy to do anything else with you.
I dont see how this has anything to do with the Empire as a whole..

So yeah, (like you im not that far in) but I think im going to side with the Imperials on this, as at least there towns/cities are liveable, and the inhabitants dont throw insults at me every three seconds, just beacuse they can. Seriously, if your nords are so damn freaking great, go out and deal with your own damn dragon problems, rather than asking me to do it.

 

[BenTheNinja]

This is a very good point, but it relies on the idea that the Stormcloak's stand a chance against the Ald'meri, and if they can't defeat a fraction of this crippled empire, they could not stand up to the might of the Ald'meri Dominion. Siding with the Imperials will probably just hand victory to the Dominion, but there is hope that the Imperials will be able to liberate themselves.[/quote]

The Stormcloaks do stand a chance against the Ald'mer, if you play through the stormcloak side the you basically destroy the empire without much trouble. I think that Skyrim would stand a better chance with the stormcloaks

 

[realist1990]

It seems from the many polls that have been taken on the subject, that most Skyrim players seem to be going with the Stormcloaks, and I can't figure out why. In the following post, I will make four points, after reading, feel free to respond and argue with my points.

4) Last, but not least, the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists, that think the fact that they are the "correct" race means that they should be allowed Skyrim, and that other races should not have authority or power, because they aren't the right race. Homeland or no homeland, these guys are basically the Skyrim equivalent of the BNP.

The Stormcloaks just racist? What? So wanting to rule your own home country instead of having a imperialistic group run it, is wrong? The way I see it, the Imperial Empire is like Britain, and the Stormcloaks are like the Irish, Indian or Chinese. They have a RIGHT to self-sovereignty (both the Stormcloaks and the Irish/Chinese/Indian).

Funnily enough I've always viewed the imperials as more Roman Empire than british.(they had pretty much the same agenda when I think about it though..) so I supported them.However now that it has been compared to a more modern empire I may be regretting my decision. oh well time for another save file methinks..

 

[Outcast107]

Personally I go the way of the Stormcloaks because they're fighting to keep their identity, though oftimes to uncomfortable extremes(I'm still pondering whether to join them just because I don't want to get rid of Jarl Baalgruf, MY Jarl!). One thing many people have been saying is that the Empire would be the "better" choice since a united Empire would have more of a chance of standing against the Aldmer Dominion. In response to this I would like to point out several things, all written out on the Elder Scrolls wiki pages for each province:

-Hammerfell is no longer part of the Empire, have beaten off the Aldmer, and probably have no wish to join the Empire ever again.
-Morrowind is no longer a functioning Dunmer region, having been invaded by Argonians and gone through political and natural disasters. Most Dunmer have fled either to Solstheim or Skyrim.
-Elsweyr and the Black Marsh have both declared independance.
-Orsinium in the Fourth Era no longer exists, due to war with High Rock and Hammerfell, and many Orcs have fled to Skyrim.
-Valenwood and Summerset Isle are part of the Aldmer Domain
-High Rock I couldn't find anything clearly stating whether or not they are still part of the Empire

So this means that the Empire is Cyrodiil, Skyrim and possibly High Rock. Not exactly what I would call a "united Empire" in the first place. Skyrim would be better off making an alliance with High Rock or Hammerfell, despite past grievances(still better relations than those they have with anyone else on the continent at this point).

So, basically, because the empire has lost power and Regions, you fight to make Skyrim independant as well, or at the very best, forge 2 smaller alligences, so the empire will be even weaker and make it an even easier task for the Dominion to push around/destroy utterly.

Hammerfell and High Rock dosen't stand a chance on their own, and adding in a disfunctional land like skyrim, that casts out citizens of both High rock and Hammerfell if Ulfric is to be crowned High King, that isn't good for diplomatic reasons, as well as uniting Skyrim itself.

Sorry, I can't follow that train of tought.

Um to let you know Hammerfell IS fighting on its own and winning dude. So its possible.

 

[pffh]

This is a very good point, but it relies on the idea that the Stormcloak's stand a chance against the Ald'meri, and if they can't defeat a fraction of this crippled empire, they could not stand up to the might of the Ald'meri Dominion. Siding with the Imperials will probably just hand victory to the Dominion, but there is hope that the Imperials will be able to liberate themselves.

The Stormcloaks do stand a chance against the Ald'mer, if you play through the stormcloak side the you basically destroy the empire without much trouble. I think that Skyrim would stand a better chance with the stormcloaks

And if you side with the Empire you pretty much destroy the Stormcloaks without much trouble your point being? Of course when a superbeing on the cusp of godhood joins one side it's going to win.

It seems from the many polls that have been taken on the subject, that most Skyrim players seem to be going with the Stormcloaks, and I can't figure out why. In the following post, I will make four points, after reading, feel free to respond and argue with my points.

4) Last, but not least, the Stormcloaks are racist nationalists, that think the fact that they are the "correct" race means that they should be allowed Skyrim, and that other races should not have authority or power, because they aren't the right race. Homeland or no homeland, these guys are basically the Skyrim equivalent of the BNP.

The Stormcloaks just racist? What? So wanting to rule your own home country instead of having a imperialistic group run it, is wrong? The way I see it, the Imperial Empire is like Britain, and the Stormcloaks are like the Irish, Indian or Chinese. They have a RIGHT to self-sovereignty (both the Stormcloaks and the Irish/Chinese/Indian).

Funnily enough I've always viewed the imperials as more Roman Empire than british.(they had pretty much the same agenda when I think about it though..) so I supported them.However now that it has been compared to a more modern empire I may be regretting my decision. oh well time for another save file methinks..

The Empire is based on the Roman empire in fact it was originally "The Roman empire but in a jungle!" but then oblivion ruined that by changing Cyrodil from a rainforest to southern England.

Um to let you know Hammerfell IS fighting on its own and winning dude. So its possible.

That might be because oh I don't know maybe something about the Redguards being the best bloody soldiers in the world and the best smiths in the world (the Orcs) live close by and many of them live in the Redguard cities.

 

[Elsarild]

Personally I go the way of the Stormcloaks because they're fighting to keep their identity, though oftimes to uncomfortable extremes(I'm still pondering whether to join them just because I don't want to get rid of Jarl Baalgruf, MY Jarl!). One thing many people have been saying is that the Empire would be the "better" choice since a united Empire would have more of a chance of standing against the Aldmer Dominion. In response to this I would like to point out several things, all written out on the Elder Scrolls wiki pages for each province:

-Hammerfell is no longer part of the Empire, have beaten off the Aldmer, and probably have no wish to join the Empire ever again.
-Morrowind is no longer a functioning Dunmer region, having been invaded by Argonians and gone through political and natural disasters. Most Dunmer have fled either to Solstheim or Skyrim.
-Elsweyr and the Black Marsh have both declared independance.
-Orsinium in the Fourth Era no longer exists, due to war with High Rock and Hammerfell, and many Orcs have fled to Skyrim.
-Valenwood and Summerset Isle are part of the Aldmer Domain
-High Rock I couldn't find anything clearly stating whether or not they are still part of the Empire

So this means that the Empire is Cyrodiil, Skyrim and possibly High Rock. Not exactly what I would call a "united Empire" in the first place. Skyrim would be better off making an alliance with High Rock or Hammerfell, despite past grievances(still better relations than those they have with anyone else on the continent at this point).

So, basically, because the empire has lost power and Regions, you fight to make Skyrim independant as well, or at the very best, forge 2 smaller alligences, so the empire will be even weaker and make it an even easier task for the Dominion to push around/destroy utterly.

Hammerfell and High Rock dosen't stand a chance on their own, and adding in a disfunctional land like skyrim, that casts out citizens of both High rock and Hammerfell if Ulfric is to be crowned High King, that isn't good for diplomatic reasons, as well as uniting Skyrim itself.

Sorry, I can't follow that train of tought.

Um to let you know Hammerfell IS fighting on its own and winning dude. So its possible.

Because the Dominion isn't in an all out attack but is spread out in places, like Skyrim.

 

[Matthew Valkanov]

Personally I go the way of the Stormcloaks because they're fighting to keep their identity, though oftimes to uncomfortable extremes(I'm still pondering whether to join them just because I don't want to get rid of Jarl Baalgruf, MY Jarl!). One thing many people have been saying is that the Empire would be the "better" choice since a united Empire would have more of a chance of standing against the Aldmer Dominion. In response to this I would like to point out several things, all written out on the Elder Scrolls wiki pages for each province:

-Hammerfell is no longer part of the Empire, have beaten off the Aldmer, and probably have no wish to join the Empire ever again.
-Morrowind is no longer a functioning Dunmer region, having been invaded by Argonians and gone through political and natural disasters. Most Dunmer have fled either to Solstheim or Skyrim.
-Elsweyr and the Black Marsh have both declared independance.
-Orsinium in the Fourth Era no longer exists, due to war with High Rock and Hammerfell, and many Orcs have fled to Skyrim.
-Valenwood and Summerset Isle are part of the Aldmer Domain
-High Rock I couldn't find anything clearly stating whether or not they are still part of the Empire

So this means that the Empire is Cyrodiil, Skyrim and possibly High Rock. Not exactly what I would call a "united Empire" in the first place. Skyrim would be better off making an alliance with High Rock or Hammerfell, despite past grievances(still better relations than those they have with anyone else on the continent at this point).

So, basically, because the empire has lost power and Regions, you fight to make Skyrim independant as well, or at the very best, forge 2 smaller alligences, so the empire will be even weaker and make it an even easier task for the Dominion to push around/destroy utterly.

Hammerfell and High Rock dosen't stand a chance on their own, and adding in a disfunctional land like skyrim, that casts out citizens of both High rock and Hammerfell if Ulfric is to be crowned High King, that isn't good for diplomatic reasons, as well as uniting Skyrim itself.

Sorry, I can't follow that train of tought.

Don't see what's so hard to understand. The game lore clearly states that Hammerfell pushed the Aldmer away WITHOUT Imperial help. High Rock doesn't seem to be in any particular trouble, and the Empire WITH the near entirety of the continent under it's control was unable to stop the Aldmer from pilllaging the Imperial City, meaning that it's doubtful they wouldd be able to do anything in their current state, even with the aid of Skyrim. So would it not be a wise choice to join up with two countries(guess they count as countries if they're no longer under imperial rule) that have shown that they are more than able to hold their own on their own?
On the matter of making things easier for the Aldmer to take over the Empire, at this point the Empire would only be the province of Cyrodiil...
And concerning Ulfric throwing non-Nords out of Skyrim, well, until I hear of a mission where I have to ethniclly cleanse Windhelm of all Dunmer I'm not going to believe that the racism here will go much further than insults and a few isolated acts of violence. Certainly never near so extreme as the Thalmor. The non-Nordic elements in the province are just too needed, be it for commerce or workforce(Markarth's Breton labourers for example).

 

[PurePareidolia]

Those are fair points and frankly the Stormcloaks forcing me to kill an Ice wraith (a very specific one I might add) before admitting me just because I was a Dunmer basically means I've got no sympathy for them. The only problem is, a) I've already signed up, and b) I hate the Thalmor even more, and the Legion wouldn't be happy with me killing any Thalmor.

 

[Outcast107]

snip

Wasn't disagree or anything. Just saying that Hammerfell DID indeed held off the Thalmor invasion.

Because the Dominion isn't in an all out attack but is spread out in places, like Skyrim.

Acutally they did. In the lore the Empire gave away a huge chuck of Hammerfell to the Dominion, and the Redguard weren't having of that shit. So they push the Dominion out, though the southern region of Hammerfell is in pretty bad shape it shows that the Dominion can be beaten.

 

[Elsarild]

Personally I go the way of the Stormcloaks because they're fighting to keep their identity, though oftimes to uncomfortable extremes(I'm still pondering whether to join them just because I don't want to get rid of Jarl Baalgruf, MY Jarl!). One thing many people have been saying is that the Empire would be the "better" choice since a united Empire would have more of a chance of standing against the Aldmer Dominion. In response to this I would like to point out several things, all written out on the Elder Scrolls wiki pages for each province:

-Hammerfell is no longer part of the Empire, have beaten off the Aldmer, and probably have no wish to join the Empire ever again.
-Morrowind is no longer a functioning Dunmer region, having been invaded by Argonians and gone through political and natural disasters. Most Dunmer have fled either to Solstheim or Skyrim.
-Elsweyr and the Black Marsh have both declared independance.
-Orsinium in the Fourth Era no longer exists, due to war with High Rock and Hammerfell, and many Orcs have fled to Skyrim.
-Valenwood and Summerset Isle are part of the Aldmer Domain
-High Rock I couldn't find anything clearly stating whether or not they are still part of the Empire

So this means that the Empire is Cyrodiil, Skyrim and possibly High Rock. Not exactly what I would call a "united Empire" in the first place. Skyrim would be better off making an alliance with High Rock or Hammerfell, despite past grievances(still better relations than those they have with anyone else on the continent at this point).

So, basically, because the empire has lost power and Regions, you fight to make Skyrim independant as well, or at the very best, forge 2 smaller alligences, so the empire will be even weaker and make it an even easier task for the Dominion to push around/destroy utterly.

Hammerfell and High Rock dosen't stand a chance on their own, and adding in a disfunctional land like skyrim, that casts out citizens of both High rock and Hammerfell if Ulfric is to be crowned High King, that isn't good for diplomatic reasons, as well as uniting Skyrim itself.

Sorry, I can't follow that train of tought.

Don't see what's so hard to understand. The game lore clearly states that Hammerfell pushed the Aldmer away WITHOUT Imperial help. High Rock doesn't seem to be in any particular trouble, and the Empire WITH the near entirety of the continent under it's control was unable to stop the Aldmer from pilllaging the Imperial City, meaning that it's doubtful they wouldd be able to do anything in their current state, even with the aid of Skyrim. So would it not be a wise choice to join up with two countries(guess they count as countries if they're no longer under imperial rule) that have shown that they are more than able to hold their own on their own?
On the matter of making things easier for the Aldmer to take over the Empire, at this point the Empire would only be the province of Cyrodiil...
And concerning Ulfric throwing non-Nords out of Skyrim, well, until I hear of a mission where I have to ethniclly cleanse Windhelm of all Dunmer I'm not going to believe that the racism here will go much further than insults and a few isolated acts of violence. Certainly never near so extreme as the Thalmor. The non-Nordic elements in the province are just too needed, be it for commerce or workforce(Markarth's Breton labourers for example).

As I said before, they can hold their own, but thats because, according to the lore, the Dominion is spread out in various places, they are not attacking in full force, because they devote troops to keep check on among other things, the Worshipping of Talos, and spying on pretty much every kind of buisness that goes on everywhere.

Forcing Skyrim into an alligence (and I fail to see any reason Hammerfell or High rock would want an alligence with Skyrim) with 2 others, just means the biggest enemy yet, the Empire will be even weaker, so now they can focus on places such as HammerFell more in force.

It's stated multiple times that if the dominion wanted to, they could wipe out Skyrim, as well as Cyrodiil.

 

[Outcast107]

snip

Proof? Of course the can take over Cyrodil because they took everything good about it. Mages guide, the blades, and lot of other stuff.

Skyrim and Hammerfell are both quiet difference area with harsh area. Hammerfell due to the desert and probably how hot it will be. Add to the fact that its the Redguard homeland so they know the area the best and can easily ambush the Thalmor.

While Skyrim is Mountainous and very very cold. its like Russia. So sending a huge army up there probably isn't the best choice.

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

My Argonian axmage is not a big fan of the Stormcloaks. While it was one of them that helped him escape Helgen and the Empire was about to chop his poor head off, the Stormcloaks still aren't that great of a group in his eyes. After going to Windhelm he's seen what the leaders of the Stormcloaks are like and what it is at it's heart. Sure they want independence, but they also treat anyone other than Nords like shit. The different mer living the city are all located in a slum and the argonians can't even live inside the walls! And is the Empire really so bad? Sure an over-zealous officer wanted to have my axmage killed; possibly due to a general being right there. But there was also the more sympathetic underling who was hesitant to have him killed and even helped him stay alive during the dragon attack.

With Ulfric looking to attack Whiterun which, while rather Imperial, hadn't exactly thrown in on either side and the Imperials willing to let Jarl Baalgruf make his own decision when it comes to garrisoning Imperial troops; Rekits support of the Empire is cemented..

My Orc on the other hand... well she respects the strength of conviction and honor of Stormcloaks.

Personally I enjoy the empire better for most of the reasons my Argonian does, though I will admit, I've mainly been seeing things from the Imperial side. I doubt they look as good from the other side. Plus they look cool, similar to Caesar's Legion except without being total dicks.

 

[Vegosiux]

Wait, did this turn into another one of those cake vs. pie threads?

Seriously, everyone has their own reasons for picking whichever side we picked, but I don't get why some get actually offended if told that someone doesn't agree with their reasons.

 

[Outcast107]

snip

Also what Dominion are you talking about thats in Skyrim? The only thing "attacking" in Skyrim is the Empire who are fighting the StormCloaks. The Dominion just have a few soldiers watching over the area. Thats it. So they CAN have more forces attacking else were. Like Hammerfell.

 

[John Appleby]

I hated the Storm Cloaks, just Nords fighting a impossible power, I love Nords and Skyrim. But its better to live under a thump than have your race all killed. Besides Empire look BOSS!

 

[walrusaurus]

I went with Hadvar at the beginning. Because he was yelling at the soldiers to try and rally a defense against the dragon, while the stormcloak guys were just trying to escape. Pretty much the same reason i joined the Legion later on in the game. If Ulfric can't set aside his squabble in the face of utter annihilation, then he obviously isn't a very good leader. So when i found the papers about him in the thalmore embassy it made me very happy i was on the other side.

 

[Outcast107]

I went with Hadvar at the beginning. Because he was yelling at the soldiers to try and rally a defense against the dragon, while the stormcloak guys were just trying to escape. Pretty much the same reason i joined the Legion later on in the game. If Ulfric can't set aside his squabble in the face of utter annihilation, then he obviously isn't a very good leader. So when i found the papers about him in the thalmore embassy it made me very happy i was on the other side.

So you think its ok for Prisoner of war to stop and help out their captors? Or you know, Glad that the Empire is willing to execute anyone who just happen to be nearby stormcloaks? Also the Thalmor have those papers as they are wanting to keep the war going as much as they can. Not that he was a actually spy.

They just want the war to continue like I said and HATE if either side win. Empire would still have allies if they won. And if Skyrim went independent then it would mean another reigion to send troops to to recapture. Also Skyrim seem like Russia, a very hard and cold place to try and conquer.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

Thank you for that post, it was one of the best I've seen in this thread. You made good points, and while I stick by my views that Ulfric himself is a total idiot

Spoiler

seriously, that peace treaty meeting was just painful to watch because of Ulfric

but I can see now that a Stormcloak ruled Skyrim wouldn't be a totally hopeless situation. I just wonder whether or not a united Empire would stand more chance than united provinces, provided that united provinces would ever actually happen.

Well the game is designed (rather masterfully, in my opinion) so that whatever decision you chose, you do come out feeling like you've done right by your own perspective - the essence of good RPG's. Who you stand with has both pros and cons, making it all about your own choices and beliefs.

From my perspective Tamriel is in shambles and the only way to resist the Aldmeri is to strengthen its core and forge strong new alliances.

I'm hoping that the inevitable expansion pack deals more in depth with the consequences of your choice - I would like to see a full-on Aldmeri invasion of Skyrim and how it plays out.