Auron225 said:
Ieyke said:
Technically, I find there to be few better reasons to mock something than obviously following the illogical, so that pretty much automatically qualifies most of everyone with a religious view more specific than "I think there's a god that runs the universe".
Since that would take up an awful lot of time, it's easier to just make fun of anyone who's vocally defending their right to be illogical, or anyone who obviously believes in the most nonsensical elements of a religion, and leave the rest alone.
Atheists don't need to defend their beliefs. The burden of proof is not on them. It's a bit foolish for them to say that they believe with absolute certainty that there are no gods, but most of them are open to any attempts to prove them wrong.
The burden of proof always lies with proving something DOES exist, not that it DOESN'T.
I could claim that Russel's Celestial Teapot is floating around in orbit around Earth right now. It would be on me to prove that's true.
If some guy came along and said "That's dumb. There is no 'Russel's Teapot' orbiting Earth.", it would be MY job to prove prove the Teapot, not his job to disprove it.
You can't just go around making unsupported claims and then demand they be accepted as true if no one can disprove them. That's a system of madness.
So you're going to mock everyone who is a christian, whether they antagonize you or not... because it's easier than to take it on a case-by-case basis? Where each case boils down to the question of "Have they offended me?" or not? Wow - simply outstanding. Surely it must be more effort to debate this with every christian you find than it is to work out if they've antagonized you or not.
When I said "their", I didn't mean the beliefs of athiests - I meant the beliefs of other religions. I have seen countless athiests defend muslims, hindus, etc etc from those trying to prove them wrong with the statement "Let them believe what they want!". These same athiests have turned around and called christians insane or retarded for believing in christianity - its a double standard I cannot fathom or accept. If other religions get a free pass to believe in what they will without becoming victims for it, why should christians?
On another note, not many people become a christian because it seems logical - it's a matter of faith. There have been many occurences since in all of history that science cannot explain. Things that have happened, yet are completely illogical - people coming back from dead, people knowing things they couldn't possibly know - miracles in essence. Christianity isn't about proof but thats as close are you're gonna get if its what you demand.
You may have noticed I stopped debating with the other guy for the mutual understanding that this thread was being derailed quicly, so for the same reason I'm going to stop now. He made the suggestion to make a thread about it but I really don't have the heart to debate this with someone unwilling to meet me halfway. You denounce everything I say as madness and so I cannot make any argument at all. In the end, I'm not telling you to repent or you will burn in hell - I'm asking you to not treat every christian you find like they are doing that.
That's not even REMOTELY what I said
Ieyke said:
I have no criticisms of Christians who essentially just believe in the lessons that Bible parables are designed to teach, and that there might be an all-powerful being that is ultimately responsible for the physical laws that govern the universe.
The same can be said about Hellenists. If they believe in the lessons taught in Greek myths, and maybe that the universe is ultimately run by gods that embody hundreds of personified concepts and phenomena, so be it.
I criticize people for "having faith" in things that have been proven to be nonsense, like people coming back from dead, people knowing things they couldn't possibly know, global floods, etc etc etc.
- Might there have been a guy named Jesus born to some chick who claimed she was a virgin? Sure. (I'm pretty sure that happens weekly in Mexico and Texas.)
- Did he get crucified? Almost certainly - the Romans were awesome at that.
- Did he come back from the dead? No.
- Did people for some reason become convinced he came back from the dead? Yes, obviously. People weren't very bright back then....but apparently people still listen to their nonsense today. Might as well believe in dragons while we're at it.
- Was there a global flood that wiped out the world? No. There are regularly big floods, and they seem like the end of the world to whoever experiences them, but there isn't anywhere near enough water on the planet to begin to flood the planet. Not even kind of.
- Was there a guy who built a huge boat and collected 7 of every clean animal and 2 of every unclean animal? No. I don't care who you are, you're not going to build a floating zoo big enough to hold anything remotely resembling the number of animals stated in the Bible. Even assuming a really shitty understanding of how many different types of animals there are....just no. The town crazy and his wife might've grabbed their pets and floated around the sea for a while when they got washed out into it in a big flood, but that's it.
- Is the world only a few thousand years old? HELL NO.
- Were humans spontaneously created one day and given a magic paradise garden to live in? HELL NO. There was millions and millions of years worth of creatures that came before us (e.g. dinosaurs). And I find that very insulting to the thousands of years of ancestors who came before us and suffered, struggled, battled, and invented their way from being ape-like creatures in an ice age to being the modern marvels we are today. To say some secret super wizard just magically created us in our modern form MASSIVELY undercuts the ACTUAL miracle that is the probability-defiance that our species achieved by surviving and becoming what it is today.
It's this type of crazy nonsense that attempts to defy logic, evidence and common sense, and the people who believe it - THAT is what and who I mock.
I don't care if someone looks at Bible stories that communicate ideas like "don't lie", "don't steal", and "don't kill", and goes "Yea, okay, this is teaching good concepts. I can follow this."
THOSE Christians are sane and logical.
Even the ones who believe an omnipotent being might have originally created the laws of physics, and that there might be an after life...that's fine. Nothing in science or simple logic says that those things can't be true.
The notion that modern people would take seriously the fantastical ramblings of our uneducated, superstitious ancestors is laughable. The fact that they genuinely DO take them seriously and sometimes as literal fact, no less....that's just mind-boggling.