Sued PS3 Hacker GeoHot Responds With Rap

jakefongloo

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Mazty said:
TheAmazingHobo said:
Mazty said:
Or how about you don't convolute something which is as simple as a person designing a method to bypass a systems copyright restrictions?
Yes, that is the immediate criminal case at hand.
And I don´t even give a fuck about that specific dude.

But I do care about the broader questions, such as whether or not such acts of hacking actually should constitute a crime. Whether it should be okay to mess with something you own in a way you desire. Not to mention to problematic nature of the restraining order itself, which demands the retraction of information that has been posted on the internet.
Just because you do not wish to think about the general implications of a case, does not mean there are none.
Well not wanting to sound a dick, but keep the philosophical ramblings for after meal port & cigar sessions. Hacking is clearly a crime as it clearly is theft/breaking & entering.
Messing with something you own would be fine as long as you kept it to yourself. One guy isn't going to be able to pirate games. However making it available to everyone is simply aiding and abetting criminal activity.
This really isn't complex at all.
I agree with this guy. There are ways, successful ways to fight corporations that don't involve breaking the law. We just as gamers have to sacrifice to get it. I would love to start a world wide boycot of Activision, continuing until Mr. Kotick was fired, but the sad truth is I'm going to buy the next CoD game.

The West Baptist church (I think, the ones who protested that 9 year old's funeral) figured out how to be a bunch of bitches who get alot of attention and theres only like 12 of them in any one state. Imagine if for a week gamer's got that kind of attention.

Regardless, this guy is in the wrong. It sucks but the law he is violating has protected way more people then it has let dirtbags get away. We're not going to let him slide because he's the rag tag rebel.
 

addeB

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bahumat42 said:
addeB said:
I'm rooting for that guy, Sony shouldn't sue people for breaking through their security. It was bound to happen eventually.
thats like saying shops shouldn't prosecute theives "it was bound to happen eventually".
Or murderers shouldn't be chased by the legal system "it was bound to happen eventually" seriously weak line of argument there. Just because it can and does happen doesn't mean people should lay back and take it, if some1 was threatening your personal income you'd be pissed off too.
I still think that Sony should learn from their mistakes, when someone hacks your system you should find out how they did it and prevent it from happening in the future instead of suing people. Sure it would be great if no one felt that they needed to hack their play station but then they wouldn't need their security systems in the first place, and as long as they need they should use hackers discoveries to find holes in the system and patch them.
So instead of suing people maybe they should try to find a way to repair damages like this?
 

Asehujiko

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Mazty said:
Asehujiko said:
Mazty said:
Asehujiko said:
Mazty said:
He just needs to come to terms with he is the bad guy in this instance and the law sees it that way.
Except that sony is in a big "shoot the messenger" mood and is is violating every single "fair trial" law in existence here.
"You helped promote and further the hacking of the PS3 anti-copyright system"
No, it seems pretty fair to label him the criminal here.
Aside from the ridiculousness that voicing disagreement with a corporate policy could be interpreted as a crime there's also the problem that Sony bribed a judge that admitted the entire case was out of his jurisdiction to let them steal all of his electronic devices, including the ones that hold his entire email correspondence with his attorney.
So aiding and abetting criminal activities is now ridiculous?
All the guy did was write a slightly more eloquent version of "rolfmao, PWNED" aimed at Sony after they failed to take care of their own master password. GeoHotz is not related to fail0verflow, which did the actual hacking/sorting through Sony's trash. Aside from that, the DCMA was recently amended to allow jailbreaking in order to access advertised product features that got blocked by overzealous security(other OS in this case). It is neither GeoHotz nor fail0verflow's fault that people are going to use fail0verflow's perfectly legal code for something illegal.

That out of the way, my main point was that it's incredibly hypocritical and assholish of Sony to sue somebody for (correctly) telling them that their security sucks while they flagrantly ignore ever single court procedure/fair trial law that gets in their way.
 

BRex21

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Mazty said:
So aiding and abetting criminal activities is now ridiculous?
This wouldn't be aiding and abetting, one requirement would be willful association which would be virtually impossible to prove, particularly since GeoHot is outspoken against piracy. The issue is that he violated the EULA and showed other people how to do that, however Sony technically violated the principles of the document when they advertised Linux support and then removed it.
Also, this isn't a criminal hearing ANYWAY, its a civil suit, and personally i think that Sony could very easily be staring down the barrel of a class action for removing advertised features.
 

addeB

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bahumat42 said:
addeB said:
bahumat42 said:
addeB said:
I'm rooting for that guy, Sony shouldn't sue people for breaking through their security. It was bound to happen eventually.
thats like saying shops shouldn't prosecute theives "it was bound to happen eventually".
Or murderers shouldn't be chased by the legal system "it was bound to happen eventually" seriously weak line of argument there. Just because it can and does happen doesn't mean people should lay back and take it, if some1 was threatening your personal income you'd be pissed off too.
I still think that Sony should learn from their mistakes, when someone hacks your system you should find out how they did it and prevent it from happening in the future instead of suing people. Sure it would be great if no one felt that they needed to hack their play station but then they wouldn't need their security systems in the first place, and as long as they need they should use hackers discoveries to find holes in the system and patch them.
So instead of suing people maybe they should try to find a way to repair damages like this?
The damage is already done.
Anything they do now is only stopgap. They HAD a good defence till the guy got all high and mighty and decided that everyone should be allowed to pirate. People need to learn that pissing off corporations probably isn't in their best interest. NVM the fact that allowing people to hurt the industry you support is silly enough.

Why can't all these hackers do something useful and get our money back from the banks who lost it all :)
What I mean is that they should have planned on someone eventually breaking their system and they should be ready to fix it when it happens.
 

VanityGirl

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Mazty said:
mjc0961 said:
First off, there's way too much going on with the case to just shorten up events into one sentence. And secondly, did you miss the part about the fair trial in that quote? Maybe you didn't notice, but Sony is trying really hard to make sure GeoHot doesn't get one by suing him in California courts.

The way I see it, either both Sony and GeoHot are the bad guys, or Sony is the bad guy and GeoHot is the good guy (it really depends on your views of the Install Other OS fiasco). But I see no way in which Sony is the good guy. They removed an advertised feature and forced people to choose between that feature or online features of the console. They're trying to get a list of names of everyone who simply watched fail overflow's hacking video (just for watching a video!). And again, they're trying to sue GeoHot all the way in California to keep some kind of "home court advantage" despite the fact that GeoHot did all the things they're suing him for somewhere else. Suing people doesn't even help secure the PS3 platform, GeoHot himself had his computers and PS3s taken away because of the restraining order, and yet firmware 3.56 for the PS3 was hacked in mere HOURS without him having access to it. So the lawsuit itself is not "Sony protecting its customers" or anything noble like that.

No matter how I look at this, at the very least Sony is always wearing a pair of horns and holding a red pitchfork.
That is all convoluting it all.
Geohot aided massively in helping to crack the copyright protection of the PS3, therefore aiding and abetting criminal activity.
If you really care about linux, just keep a separate harddrive with it on? Or god forbid peruse the matter it legally instead of cracking software.
I will jump in your argument to say that the matter of the other OS option was pursued legally and Sony essentially told their customers to "deal with it".
That doesn't make hacking morally right, but you must take into consideration that Sony did shoot itself in the foot when it got rid of the other OS option and when the public had a legal outcry, it was largely ignored by Sony or brushed off as a "they'll get over it" moment.

However, in a legal matter, GeoHot may get off with a few fines. He was not the cause of the major Sony hacker after their update and this will be reviewed in court. How could a man with all his technology gone have hacked a PS3 he didn't have?


And about the court matters, I believe they should try GeoHot where his crimes were committed. That is usually the rule. Where you commit the crime is where you should be tried. That is what the other guy was saying.

Not saying a support this guy, but I do think that Sony should be working on either:
-Banning PS3's that have been hacked (similar to what Microsoft did)
-Making a better bit of security for the PS3s
 

FinalFreak16

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If I see a counter rap video from sony featuring Kevin Butler and Jack Tretton I will officially love Sony and forgive them for all of their late wrongdoings.

Plus it would probably be the most amazing video ever.
 

SaintWaldo

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Jun 10, 2008
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Tom Goldman said:
Any chance of Kevin Butler coming up with a reply?
Does anyone else in the room want to slow down with me for just a second and remember who owns roughly 33% of human recorded media that is under copyright right now, and a bulk of it is the GOOD shit? Who owns one third of the remaining means of production of not only games, but movies and what is left of commercial music?

Because the "who" in that question rhymes with "Baloney" and even though their name rhymes with a lunch-meat that's code for "bullshit", that's not what they are. They know how to find and produce exactly one thousand replies to this little mathematician with no self-applied ethics and shove this little monkey hoot right up his ass.

I'm just watching.
 

HyenaThePirate

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To me cases like this are pointless and a waste of valuable time and money for the taxpayer.

I wish Judges would take such things like this into account from the start.

1. You can't put the Genie back in the bottle. GeoHotz released the key, it's already out there, dozens of hack groups have it, the pirates DEFINITELY have it... the blow was mortal.

2. Wouldn't their money best be used trying to find a way to close the security hole instead of suing someone who will NEVER be able to pay any money for anything? Nor will he be restricted from actions because we live in AMERICA. Since the case is not criminal, you can't just restrict his American rights to continue to do whatever he wants in his own home.

3. If the purpose is to inspire fear, then you failed miserably Sony. Also, you are not untouchable... after all, it wouldn't be very difficult for people to stop buying your console and go back to the xbox 360, which for all intents and purposes is a comparable system minus blu-ray.
Killzone 3 and Uncharted aren't THAT great.
 

Jumplion

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Mar 10, 2008
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What a jackass.

Seriously, there's making light of a situation, and then there's being the whitest thing since .this text right here!.

Though I may be a bit of a serious sam here. And I have absolutely no taste in rap, so I have no idea how that holds up to "standard" rap songs.

Also, I can't have been the only one to think of this;


"It can't be a crime just to kick a dope rhyme!"

He should have totally done that, that would have been awesome ;D

EDIT: Know what would be doubly awesome? If Sony responded with Kevin Butler doing a light, love ballet rock song. Or another rap if that's how you roll.

[sup]It can't be a crime just to stand en pointe!"[/sup]
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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dathwampeer said:
I'm seriously at a loss as to how sony won that legal battle.

I'm gonna go ahead an say it.

Everyone involved got a huge stinking bribe.

He owned the system. Unless the meaning of that has somehow changed, cracking it and then showing other people how to do the same is in no way illegal.

He never actually played any copied games (at-least not to public knowledge).

I don't understand how Apple lost this exact same battle whilst Sony is winning it.
Because laws change over time, as well as each state having differant laws when it comes to things like this. The venue it's being tried in might be making a substantial differance here as much a anything.

One of the reasons why we have protection against the law being retroactively applied is because when someone wins a case that they probably shouldn't have due to a legal technicality, as you might guess people act right quick to change things to prevent that avenue of attack/defense from being used again. However people in the US can't be tried twice for the same thing, so if someone wins a case, and then whatever they did becomes illegal and indefensible using the technique they did, they can't simply be re-tried under the changed laws for the same incident, but if they do whatever it was again after the law was changed they can be tried for that.

My basic attitude here is that I sympathize with what he was doing, especially since I'm none too happy with what Sony has been up to recently. That doesn't mean what he was doing was right, and that's exactly why hackers conceal their identities.

For society to hold together, the law can't be enforced subjectively, you can't decide that because you like a specific guy, or agree with wht he did something, that the law shouldn't be used in that case, but should be used in a case where you don't like the person or agree with them. Down that road lies all kinds of abuse and a LOT of problems.

There are a lot of situations where hackers do a lot of damage to innocent people, and fall under the same kinds of laws this guy is being prosecuted under. Hate to say it, but he should probably land some jail time.

I do however respect his attitude to some extent, don't stick it out if your afraid it might get cut off (so to speak), he rolled the dice, he lost, and he doesn't seem to be breaking down like a baby because of it. I can respect that.

It's not over yet, we'll see what happens in the end.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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dathwampeer said:
[
I disagree in that he didn't actually hack into anything other than his own console.

People can argue that he technically didn't own the software and so had no right to hack it. But he owned a console that had functionality removed from it. He was re-opening that functionality.

I know sony have taken him to the Cali courts becaus... Well they're a bunch of dicks on stuff like this. But that in of itself should ring some alarm bells in peoples heads. Sony aren't playing a fair game here.

They're stomping around to show their power. What geohot did is not illegal. This shouldn't even have reached the courts. Especially after what happened with the jailbreaking stuff.
He did more than that actually, a big part of this is that he went out and told other people how to do the same thing.

What's more, there are other issues involved in this kind of thing like the protection of trade secrets.

It goes beyond just the software. Basically Sony owns the PS-3 and everything that it is. Someone can't buy one, take it apart to find out how it works, and then decide to produce their own versions of it. The same applies to the software under which it operates. This gets into the issue of things like "robber economnies" with countries like China analyzing products and then knocking them off despite it being illegal.

What this guy is doing is not only hacking his system, but sharing proprietary information with other people. Had he just hacked it, and then not told anyone else, I doubt Sony would have actually cared about it, other than voiding his warrenty, if they even found out about it.

The problem here is that if Sony *doesn't* go after someone for these kinds of violations, especially when they are this public, then they hurt themselves because in the countries that DO take the trade secrets seriously (ie nations that aren't robber economies) someone can point to the fact that Sony wasn't defending their trade secrets, and thus lost the right to their protection.

To the law context doesn't matter, what this guy is doing to "restore functionality" is no differant than some guy who is say ripping the entire operating system to use as the basis for his new SP-3 system which he will be selling for half the price. You can say that one thing doesn't follow the other, but the bottom line is the law doesn't discriminate a differane in attempt. To the law the central issue of modding the system and playing with that information is universal and intent doesn't enter into the equasion. It's either protected and nobody does it except the owner, or everyone can do it.

It's also noteworthy that previous rulings like the jailbreaking of phones and the like don't nessicarly mean much. Sure, they established a precedent, but then again other precedents might have been set in other less well known case, or as a result of that ruling the laws in play might have been amended. You can't go after the people for jailbreaking again, but with changes to the laws it does mean that doing something similar is still
going to be legal. The fact that Geohot seems to be losing definatly implies that the laws are differant in the venue he's in, or the laws have changed since the last time we saw a similar case fought. I haven't followed it closely enough to say.

The bottom line is that while I wouldn't put it past Sony to have bribed people, a decent number of eyes seem to be on this one, so I'm not sure they would have taken the risks. Without knowing all the laws or the specific arguements being made, it's also impossible for me to say with any kind of authority as to whether this case is reasonable.

As I said, I think Sony have been a giant group of jerks recently, but at the same time I'm able to see both sides of this arguement. If I was in their position I'd be fighting to prevent people from mucking around with my software/OS too.

We're ultimatly going to have to agree to disagree, but I can see why things are probably going this way. I might be wrong on the reasons , but as the reports are saying right now, things are not going Geohot's way, so I'm probably pretty close to the logic being used, right or wrong.
 

Ulixes Dimon

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bahumat42 said:
addeB said:
I'm rooting for that guy, Sony shouldn't sue people for breaking through their security. It was bound to happen eventually.
thats like saying shops shouldn't prosecute theives "it was bound to happen eventually".
Or murderers shouldn't be chased by the legal system "it was bound to happen eventually" seriously weak line of argument there. Just because it can and does happen doesn't mean people should lay back and take it, if some1 was threatening your personal income you'd be pissed off too.
Except geohot isn't stealing anything, he just cracks the OS so he can add stuff. Thats like buying a cake... and getting sued for figuring out how to make it better
 

WorldCritic

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Huh, well since I don't know the full story I can't really root for either side. Though if Kevin Butler were to make a reply I would root for him.