Sued PS3 Hacker GeoHot Responds With Rap

[Therumancer]

[
People can't copy and distribute the software. There's nothing stopping them from showing other people how to perform a perfectly legal action.

If what he did to his own console is not a prosecutable offence, then showing others how to do it can't possibly be one either. I'd already covered this logic before.

Sony are wrong and they are certainly bribing people. Just because they're going to win doesn't mean they did it legitimately.

Not really, I'm guessing your unfamiliar with the idea of black boxes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box

The basic factor being that a black box is a device/part/system used to make something function, yet which the person owning it has no conrol or ownership over. If say you have a black box component inside another device you own, it's illegal for you to break open that box to see how it works, or try and repair that component yourself. You need to contact the manufacturer of the box to get a replacement part. The reason being is that devices like this typically represent a trade secret, something that would be relatively easy to duplicate if people knew how to do it, but most people have not figured out, thus by "boxing" the component they can make more money off of it by concealing the knowledge, which is perfectly legal, and can be a big deal if you violate it.

What's going on here is similar to someone breaking opena black box component inside of an electronic device and then yelling "Hey world, this is really simple. Here is how you make this component so you don't have to spend $300 getting a replacement every time an item of this sort breaks".

It's not an exact analogy, but pretty close, and probably falls under a lot of the same laws. Now, I understand that you think your right, but I don't think you are. While I wouldn't put bribery past Sony, this is a fairly high profile case and is probably going to be subject to review. I think this is a situation where like it or not, the law as it stands right now is on their side.

By the logic your using there would be no such thing as trade secrets, since anyone wound be able to analyze and modify anything they purchuse, and that's not the case at all.

 

[Something Amyss]

He just needs to come to terms with he is the bad guy in this instance and the law sees it that way.

Everyone wants to paint themselves as the good guys. That's why so many people toss around words like "truth" and "patriot."

It is funny when you look at it in the light of "How dare you attack me for being in the wrong?" Though.

 

[Therumancer]

[
The major point you're missing is that he has not duplicated any 'trade-secret'. If he was to profit from stealing a design from sony or something along those lines. Then I'd agree with you. All he has done is found out how the system works and re-opened something they closed off. Which was a legally debatable move on sony's part anyway.

Patents exist for a reason.

He's preventing Sony from controlling their own product, and potentially making money off of it. What's more he provided information on how to access the OS to people when that information was never intended for customers to have, it's just like breaking open a black box.

See, even if you argue what he did doesn't do any damage, it's still the principle of the thing, and Sony has to go after him for that reason. If they don't go after him and someone does something similar with the PS-3, they will be able to referance Sony not pursueing the matter here as permission.

Right now Geohot's big comments, even in his song, are that if Sony didn't want people to have this kind of information they should have protected it better. This is similar to saying "well if you didn't want me to know how that component worked, you should have put a better black box around it" after cracking one open.

See, on principle I think Sony have been being a group of rodents recently. As far as I'm concerned removing the "other OS" option was quite shady, and probably criminal as it was an advertised feature. However their action should be confronted on those grounds. Breaking into the system to restore features like that is also wrong, I agree with Geohot in principle, but at the same time he did step over the line, and it's really hard to say that the law shouldn't apply to him here. That would involve making the rules subjective and it would be a big problem.

I'll also be honest in saying that one of the big reasons why Sony apparently removed the other OS option was that it represented a security risk that people could use to hack into other people's PS-3 systems. The big issue was them removing the feature or locking it out, rather than finding some way to address the security hole while retaining the promised functionality. As the security hole has not been addressed, I'm quite wary about this guy passing this information around like this because I think it could also lead to the security of a lot of PS-3 systems being compromised.

Had he just restored his own system it would be one thing, but again the issue is one where he was broadcasting the information. That's also why Sony couldn't ignore him because by not addressing it they are not defending that information as being proprietary.

What's more it means Sony is effectively losing control over their own product, and they have a lot of responsibility for what is done with the PS-3. If some hacker using information from Geohot winds up hacking into people's PS-3s due to that security hole being opened up again, Sony is probably going to be the ones who wind up taking the heat for it. One of the first questions in a case of someone's children being spammed with horse porn or whatever, is going to be what Sony did to ensure the security, and not having responded to this security breach being re-opened is definatly not going to be a point in their favor.

Now yeah, Sony should have just paid whatever it cost to fix the security hole without inhibiting promised functionality, and we wouldn't be here right now, but that isn't what happened.

 

[Kajin]

Oh, god, I would pay to see GeoHot and Kevin Butler get into a rap battle.

 

[nYuknYuknYuk]

You guys are supporting Geohot? Come on guys.... find all the little loopholes you want, say he was doing it for Other OS, you know this guy is in the wrong.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I'm seriously at a loss as to how sony won that legal battle.

I'm gonna go ahead an say it.

Everyone involved got a huge stinking bribe.

He owned the system. Unless the meaning of that has somehow changed, cracking it and then showing other people how to do the same is in no way illegal.

He owned the hardware, but he had no right to show people how to crack the software. He doesn't own the software, Sony does. That's how they won the legal battle. No one is bribing anyone here. Geohot fucked up. The EULA states that you do not own the software of the console, you have the right to use it within legal means. Geohot tampering with it and showing people how to do so allows for piracy on the PS3. The bad outweighs the good here and this rapping hacker broke the law.

Surely his not owning the software only applies to him illegally copying and distributing it.

He is bringing back a function to the system that was originally a selling point but was recently taken away.

This is the exact same battle Apple lost over jailbreaking (infact, this case should be leaning even more to the hackers innocence. Because of the whole Linux issue.) It makes no sense that Sony should now win it unless there have been law changes.

This is in no way, shape or form a fair trial.

He didn't show people how to commit an illegal act. He showed them how to regain a function that was removed. If people use that for illegal purposes then that's not his fault.

Would we blame Smith & Wesson for any person who fires a magnum in a crime? Or more accurately the person who came up with that particular models design. Or should we blame the manufacturer of the bullets?

The blame rests squarely on the people actually committing the crime.

Umm, no. He didn't show people how to get Other OS back, he showed people a security crack. He didn't specifically show people how to get back lost features, that's where your comparison fails. Also you comparing this to Apple shows that you don't know the specifics of that issue either. Apple can no longer sure for jailbreaking, but they can still stop jailbroken iPhones from functioning. Also a jailbroken iPhone leads to free apps, a "jail-broken" PS3 could lead to pirated games. It's completely different territory. This Geohot jackass didn't just jeopardize Sony, but he jeopardized everyone who puts out products for Sony. A free iPhone app isn't stealing, that's why jailbreaking iPhones is legal. No one loses anything there. Companies like Capcom, SCEA, Activision, Epic, these companies have something to worry about when the PS3's security is threatened. It's a fair trial. Geohot didn't show people how to do illegal acts but he gave them the means to do so very easily. It's not legal when you give someone the means to do crime. That's like insider trading. You can't go around sharing insider information on stocks because it hurts other companies. Your excuse can't be, " I didn't know they were going to use the stock info to make an unfair amount of money, I did it because it was market research. Geohot dug himself a hole here and it's no one's fault but his own, and if he wants to spend his time making rap videos instead of a solid defence, he really has no idea how fucked he is. The age of hackers getting hired for doing crime is over since people who can hack wind up applying for jobs exactly to stop people like Geohot, so he really doesn't have a hope for that either.

 

[Ghengis John]

In a few days Kevin Butler and his crew, Snoop Dogg and Lil' Wayne will probably counter with a crushingly gangsta' counter blow.

EDIT:

EDIT: Know what would be doubly awesome? If Sony responded with Kevin Butler doing a light, love ballet rock song. Or another rap if that's how you roll.

Okay that's two of us. You can't tell me nobody at Sony isn't thinking it.

Also, this kid sure wants a lot of attention doesn't he? What's up with that? All of a sudden he *really* seems to want to be noticed.

 

[sansamour14]

im rooting for this guy he bought the PS3 so he can do watever the hell he wants with it. hacking the PS3 to run pirated games isnt a crime until he actually plays a pirated game. IMO hes being sued for having the capability to commit a crime and not actually having done one in the first place.

 

[emion]

this dude deserve SO much credit XD he got my respect at least :3

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I'm seriously at a loss as to how sony won that legal battle.

I'm gonna go ahead an say it.

Everyone involved got a huge stinking bribe.

He owned the system. Unless the meaning of that has somehow changed, cracking it and then showing other people how to do the same is in no way illegal.

He owned the hardware, but he had no right to show people how to crack the software. He doesn't own the software, Sony does. That's how they won the legal battle. No one is bribing anyone here. Geohot fucked up. The EULA states that you do not own the software of the console, you have the right to use it within legal means. Geohot tampering with it and showing people how to do so allows for piracy on the PS3. The bad outweighs the good here and this rapping hacker broke the law.

Surely his not owning the software only applies to him illegally copying and distributing it.

He is bringing back a function to the system that was originally a selling point but was recently taken away.

This is the exact same battle Apple lost over jailbreaking (infact, this case should be leaning even more to the hackers innocence. Because of the whole Linux issue.) It makes no sense that Sony should now win it unless there have been law changes.

This is in no way, shape or form a fair trial.

He didn't show people how to commit an illegal act. He showed them how to regain a function that was removed. If people use that for illegal purposes then that's not his fault.

Would we blame Smith & Wesson for any person who fires a magnum in a crime? Or more accurately the person who came up with that particular models design. Or should we blame the manufacturer of the bullets?

The blame rests squarely on the people actually committing the crime.

Umm, no. He didn't show people how to get Other OS back, he showed people a security crack. He didn't specifically show people how to get back lost features, that's where your comparison fails. Also you comparing this to Apple shows that you don't know the specifics of that issue either. Apple can no longer sure for jailbreaking, but they can still stop jailbroken iPhones from functioning. Also a jailbroken iPhone leads to free apps, a "jail-broken" PS3 could lead to pirated games. It's completely different territory. This Geohot jackass didn't just jeopardize Sony, but he jeopardized everyone who puts out products for Sony. A free iPhone app isn't stealing, that's why jailbreaking iPhones is legal. No one loses anything there. Companies like Capcom, SCEA, Activision, Epic, these companies have something to worry about when the PS3's security is threatened. It's a fair trial. Geohot didn't show people how to do illegal acts but he gave them the means to do so very easily. It's not legal when you give someone the means to do crime. That's like insider trading. You can't go around sharing insider information on stocks because it hurts other companies. Your excuse can't be, " I didn't know they were going to use the stock info to make an unfair amount of money, I did it because it was market research. Geohot dug himself a hole here and it's no one's fault but his own, and if he wants to spend his time making rap videos instead of a solid defence, he really has no idea how fucked he is. The age of hackers getting hired for doing crime is over since people who can hack wind up applying for jobs exactly to stop people like Geohot, so he really doesn't have a hope for that either.

A cracked console has the same functionality a linux run PS3 had, Yes it had the added ability to run pirated software. But I doubt he'd have cracked the system had sony not removed the function in the first place.

And I've got nothing against sony shutting down cracked consoles as they come accross them. Hazard of the job I suppose. Taking legal action is a step too far.

Also cydia tends to stock bootleged and immitations of appstore apps.

The legal action Sony is taking is more to please it's business partners (i.e. thrid party companies) than themselves really. How would you feel if you were Square Enix and all Sony did to stop the situation was disconnect cracked console while doing nothing about the fact that your games are still being pirated? What kind of message would it send if Sony didn't do anything considering this idiot posted his name along with the crack? This case is really to stop people from pirateing games. Killzone 3 was just leaked online, but I think people are thinking twice about pirating it because of this Geohot guy getting slammed. And again you bring up Apple. Cydia carries knock off titles, not pirated titles. HUGE difference. Stop defending this guy, he's using the same excuse that almost every hacker has used before, "I didn't know people would use it to do illegal things." It's a really him telling himself that to try and make himself feel innocent. He fucked up. Simple and plain. And really you have to make a message out of someone in order to get people to stop pirating. Especially if the idiot hands out his name and says he did it.

 

[EHKOS]

Wow, that was really good. Kids on fire.

 

[NeferX]

Heck, I think they should hire him. Make something of the situation rather than suing some kid. It would look good if Sony were the ones that extended the olive branch.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I'm seriously at a loss as to how sony won that legal battle.

I'm gonna go ahead an say it.

Everyone involved got a huge stinking bribe.

He owned the system. Unless the meaning of that has somehow changed, cracking it and then showing other people how to do the same is in no way illegal.

He owned the hardware, but he had no right to show people how to crack the software. He doesn't own the software, Sony does. That's how they won the legal battle. No one is bribing anyone here. Geohot fucked up. The EULA states that you do not own the software of the console, you have the right to use it within legal means. Geohot tampering with it and showing people how to do so allows for piracy on the PS3. The bad outweighs the good here and this rapping hacker broke the law.

Surely his not owning the software only applies to him illegally copying and distributing it.

He is bringing back a function to the system that was originally a selling point but was recently taken away.

This is the exact same battle Apple lost over jailbreaking (infact, this case should be leaning even more to the hackers innocence. Because of the whole Linux issue.) It makes no sense that Sony should now win it unless there have been law changes.

This is in no way, shape or form a fair trial.

He didn't show people how to commit an illegal act. He showed them how to regain a function that was removed. If people use that for illegal purposes then that's not his fault.

Would we blame Smith & Wesson for any person who fires a magnum in a crime? Or more accurately the person who came up with that particular models design. Or should we blame the manufacturer of the bullets?

The blame rests squarely on the people actually committing the crime.

Umm, no. He didn't show people how to get Other OS back, he showed people a security crack. He didn't specifically show people how to get back lost features, that's where your comparison fails. Also you comparing this to Apple shows that you don't know the specifics of that issue either. Apple can no longer sure for jailbreaking, but they can still stop jailbroken iPhones from functioning. Also a jailbroken iPhone leads to free apps, a "jail-broken" PS3 could lead to pirated games. It's completely different territory. This Geohot jackass didn't just jeopardize Sony, but he jeopardized everyone who puts out products for Sony. A free iPhone app isn't stealing, that's why jailbreaking iPhones is legal. No one loses anything there. Companies like Capcom, SCEA, Activision, Epic, these companies have something to worry about when the PS3's security is threatened. It's a fair trial. Geohot didn't show people how to do illegal acts but he gave them the means to do so very easily. It's not legal when you give someone the means to do crime. That's like insider trading. You can't go around sharing insider information on stocks because it hurts other companies. Your excuse can't be, " I didn't know they were going to use the stock info to make an unfair amount of money, I did it because it was market research. Geohot dug himself a hole here and it's no one's fault but his own, and if he wants to spend his time making rap videos instead of a solid defence, he really has no idea how fucked he is. The age of hackers getting hired for doing crime is over since people who can hack wind up applying for jobs exactly to stop people like Geohot, so he really doesn't have a hope for that either.

A cracked console has the same functionality a linux run PS3 had, Yes it had the added ability to run pirated software. But I doubt he'd have cracked the system had sony not removed the function in the first place.

And I've got nothing against sony shutting down cracked consoles as they come accross them. Hazard of the job I suppose. Taking legal action is a step too far.

Also cydia tends to stock bootleged and immitations of appstore apps.

The legal action Sony is taking is more to please it's business partners (i.e. thrid party companies) than themselves really. How would you feel if you were Square Enix and all Sony did to stop the situation was disconnect cracked console while doing nothing about the fact that your games are still being pirated? What kind of message would it send if Sony didn't do anything considering this idiot posted his name along with the crack? This case is really to stop people from pirateing games. Killzone 3 was just leaked online, but I think people are thinking twice about pirating it because of this Geohot guy getting slammed. And again you bring up Apple. Cydia carries knock off titles, not pirated titles. HUGE difference. Stop defending this guy, he's using the same excuse that almost every hacker has used before, "I didn't know people would use it to do illegal things." It's a really him telling himself that to try and make himself feel innocent. He fucked up. Simple and plain. And really you have to make a message out of someone in order to get people to stop pirating. Especially if the idiot hands out his name and says he did it.

The problem is it's not really a legal issue. What he did was not really illegal. The only morally questionable part of what he did was that he showed others how to do it. He hasn't actually ripped and distributed any copyrighted material. Sony's motives are of no concern to me. What they're doing is bullshit. I'm convinced they're bribing people. It's the only way I can see it turning out the way it has.

Also Cydia carries ton's of pirated software and merchandise. Have you ever used it? There are emulators for the NES the Snes the PS1. There's probably a N64 one if you look hard enough. They certainly don't have permission to run the emulators let alone rip and distributes the game ROM's. You can get unofficial version of Quake and Doom to run on it.

That's not even mentioning the amount of songs you can download to use as ringtones. Piracy is rampant on the iPhone.

Lets just outline the logic of this argument. Geohot's hasn't pirated any software. Nor has he shown people how to pirate software. He has hacked a system he owns, allowing for homebrew to be installed.

You cannot blame him for how people use that knowledge.

You don't blame the designer of a gun for the crimes someone may commit with it.

The same logic applies here.

Your lack of knowledge about the law is really what's making your argument flawed here. As I'm sure I explained Geohot does own the hardware but he does not own the software. Otherwise he would be the on making firmware updates, not Sony. Take a read through the EULA agreement. It's as plain ad the fact that the Earth is a planet that Sony owns the software and we as consumers have purchased the right to use it not alter it. No one is getting bribed so get that fool notion out of your head. Especially if you don't know the law of the situation.

Oh, and ROMS are perfectly legal to own as long as you own the original copy of the game, otherwise you have to delete them within 24 hours of acquiring them. That's called making a back up. Also what the hell do you think the Virtual Console, PSOne Classics, and XBL Arcade re-releases are? Licensed ROM images being sold. And another thing, you can legally download and use any ROM image that is not getting any profit. That means if I want to download and play River City Ransom, (a game made in the 80s by the now defunct Technos Japan) I can do so since the original company does not exist anymore and there is no other way of buying it besides eBay.

You should stop with the gun comparison too. You can't blame gun crime on the manufacturers. Blame the shitty gun control system the U.S. has. Guns were made to kill. Most gun crimes are caused with illegally bought guns. It's not the Beretta company's fault that the store owner they send their guns to decides to sell guns underground for profit to criminals. It's not the same logic here at all. Geohot broke the EULA which is punishable by lawsuit. What part of that can't you understand?

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Heck, I think they should hire him. Make something of the situation rather than suing some kid. It would look good if Sony were the ones that extended the olive branch.

Here's the problem with that, besides sending out the notion that people should reward crime...

The guys that make the security for the PS3 are probably guys just like Geohot that decided to use their craft to make them money rather than use it to get free games and hack. The days of hackers getting hired after a crime are over. This is because the guys with that technical know how just get jobs that require that skill. There's no need tot hire Geohot because they can just look at a pile of resumes and find guys who are just as skilled as he is but want to use their skills to make a living.