Super Mario Galaxy 2
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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So any direct sequel is a level pack, and a stagnation of the franchise? Hmm. Do you just not want Mario Galaxy 2, as opposed to some other Mario adventure? Is the engine boring? Also, did you complain about Mega Man when this happened over and over again? One could argue very easily that each new series of Mega Man games was just "cashing in," without adding "enough" changes to make the game "innovative" again. I'd like to see a completely new game every time as well, but it doesn't mean I'll automatically be disappointed in a similar sequel.
As for a game to introduce players to 3D platforming, I agree with Shamus Young's recommendation of Prince of Persia for PS3 and 360.
As for a game to introduce players to 3D platforming, I agree with Shamus Young's recommendation of Prince of Persia for PS3 and 360.
my suggestion for first time gamers would be GTAIV since it doesnt start with a lot of difficulty and they can get used to third person controls while picking up their cousin to go bowling, since that is what they do in the real world and i think it would let them adapt suitably.
A Point'n'Clicker would be good for a first-timer. I heard The Shivah was good, though you, being an integral (and by "integral" I mean "presumed dead") member of the AGS community, would know better than I. Iji might be good, too. Not only is it an incredibly fun platform shooter, but it also teaches a valuable lesson about murdering aliens.
"A casual game is something anyone can pick up, that a secretary might play to pass the time in between filing the minutes and fending off sexual harassment."
Ha! Pretty funny.
Ha! Pretty funny.
I found myself agreeing heartily with the "3D movement is disorienting for new gamers" point on the simple grounds that I've seen it in action. My step-father and kid sister both took up gaming with the Wii, starting with casual games in the Wii Sports line. Then my little sister picked up Super Smash Brothers: Brawl and gave it a try, stuck with it (because she likes a few of the characters) and became pretty good at it. She and my step-father both played that game and New Super Mario Bros for the Wii (and got that is a hamfisted title) together and had a great time. But the instant they tried out Super Mario Galaxy, they were completely vexed. My step-father in particular was met with a mild case of vertigo and toppled right off of the sofa (much to my sister's amusement).
I've been gaming my whole life, and I don't think there are any sorts of games I can't pick up and be reasonably competent at fairly quickly, but it seems like alot of us gamers don't recall that most people, and particularly the ones coming in with the Wii, don't have our years and decades of gaming experience to fall back on. In spite of it's outwardly lighthearted appearance, a game like Super Mario Galaxy is far from casual-friendly.
I've been gaming my whole life, and I don't think there are any sorts of games I can't pick up and be reasonably competent at fairly quickly, but it seems like alot of us gamers don't recall that most people, and particularly the ones coming in with the Wii, don't have our years and decades of gaming experience to fall back on. In spite of it's outwardly lighthearted appearance, a game like Super Mario Galaxy is far from casual-friendly.
Wow, a great recommendation, Yahtzee. LittleBigPlanet is perfect for a new gamer; visuals welcoming enough to draw in a casual player with depth that can cause them to sink hours into it. And, on that point, I somewhat agree with your argument of Mario not really fitting the casual description. I've seen kids losing their mind trying to beat a single level of, not only the Galaxy games, but also New Super Mario Bros. Wii. You have no idea how angry these kids can get when they bounce off each others' heads and fall into three separate pits.
Hell, I've even had some troubles trying to get some of the hardest stars in the Galaxy games. LittleBigPlanet by comparison just lets you go through the levels and appreciate the fine work that was put into it. Plus, the co-op aspect is great in the way that you've mentioned it.
On a similar note, I think that Rock Band 2 serves as a good starting point. Not that it teaches you valuable game tactics. It's because my experiences have taught me that a four-piece plastic band armed with a few hundred songs (counting those that you download) can give a positive view of gaming culture to those who weren't particularly partial to begin with. Just for the fact that it serves as a fun way to use games in a more friendly manner, this is a good starting point for anyone curious of the culture. (In addition, easy mode plus no fail means that anyone can jump in on the game.)
Hell, I've even had some troubles trying to get some of the hardest stars in the Galaxy games. LittleBigPlanet by comparison just lets you go through the levels and appreciate the fine work that was put into it. Plus, the co-op aspect is great in the way that you've mentioned it.
On a similar note, I think that Rock Band 2 serves as a good starting point. Not that it teaches you valuable game tactics. It's because my experiences have taught me that a four-piece plastic band armed with a few hundred songs (counting those that you download) can give a positive view of gaming culture to those who weren't particularly partial to begin with. Just for the fact that it serves as a fun way to use games in a more friendly manner, this is a good starting point for anyone curious of the culture. (In addition, easy mode plus no fail means that anyone can jump in on the game.)
I agree with Little Big Planet, but I'd also throw in the lego games. My workmate never played games in her life when she bought a Wii, a DS, and a PSP for her and her kids to play with. When asking what game she could play I told her to play the lego games and she loved them. Not only that, but it utilizes a lot of game mechanics we take for granted.
The next game she played was Resident Evil 4 and she loved that as well, but said that she wouldn't have been able to play it before she played the Lego games. Interesting.
The next game she played was Resident Evil 4 and she loved that as well, but said that she wouldn't have been able to play it before she played the Lego games. Interesting.
Okay, I guess more recent MMOs have gotten more complex. Back in the day you had your quest, skill, and inventory windows and that was about it. You clicked on the spot you wanted to move to and you clicked on a monster to attack it. Every place you needed to go and every NPC you needed to talk to had a big dot on the map. All the weapons and armor were level-coded for your convenience. You're level 10? Use the level 10 sword and level 10 armor.npath said:
Thing about Little Big Planet is that while it's really good and fun, I think it would do little to convince Ebert that games have any artistic merit. It'd be good to introduce him to the playability factor, but I dunno. I think Bioshock is pretty easy, very forgiving with the vita chambers, and actually has a very good story, so that'd be my choice.
As far as showing newbies that games are toally art nyah nyah nyah, I'd have to reccomend those ol' lucasarts point-N-click adventures. They require no technical ability whatsoever, it's impossible to die, and they're about as close to movies as games have gotten. They're easily understandable in outsider terms, too- you could understand and enjoy them with no knowledge of how game-logic works.
...well, assuming you have a walkthrough open beside you. Adventure game logic never even really made sense to gamers, so- equal footing?
Perhaps one of the newer ones with a hint system at first - Monkey island: Special edition, for example? - then onto stuff like Grim Fandango if they're at all interested.
EDIT:
...well, assuming you have a walkthrough open beside you. Adventure game logic never even really made sense to gamers, so- equal footing?
Perhaps one of the newer ones with a hint system at first - Monkey island: Special edition, for example? - then onto stuff like Grim Fandango if they're at all interested.
EDIT:
-Uh, dude, it's yahtzee. Wild guess: Yes he did.Nateman742 said:
I vote time travell, as a hopefully non-gimmicky puzzle technique not as a setting.Khaiseri said:
Just my 2 cents:
My dad, a 60 years old doctor in physics, was curious about all the time me and my brothers were wasting in front of the computer, so he decided to try it himself. He asked us what we recommend, and we chose the most stupid game we had installed at the time.
Diablo 2.
He wasn't good at it mind you, he picked up every single piece of trash he could find and always tried to use his potions 10 seconds after he died. But that's not the point. The point is that he seemed to enjoy himself.
These days, he plays solo World of Warcraft.
My dad, a 60 years old doctor in physics, was curious about all the time me and my brothers were wasting in front of the computer, so he decided to try it himself. He asked us what we recommend, and we chose the most stupid game we had installed at the time.
Diablo 2.
He wasn't good at it mind you, he picked up every single piece of trash he could find and always tried to use his potions 10 seconds after he died. But that's not the point. The point is that he seemed to enjoy himself.
These days, he plays solo World of Warcraft.
This reminds of when some family friends were over and i had to entertain their son who was like 8. i decided to give him a go at SMG (That's Super Mario Galaxy, not a sub-machine gun)'cause i thought it would be a nice easy game for a non-gaming 8 year old. it went kinda like this.MortalForNow said:
Luma: Mario, you must rebuild this launch star by...
Kid: Shut up (skips text). What do i do?
me: you have to get those little triangle things
Kid: what triangles?
Me: the little gold triangles, (kid picks one up) there what you just picked up.
kid: what did i pick up? (runs past Luma again who says something) shut up stupid face!
Me: you'd probabely know what to do better if you listened to them.
kid: But they aren't saying anything
Yeah that was a frustrating couple of hours. but while trying to explain the different jumps and the lives system to him i realised it's much more complicated without knowledge we take for granted.(when you die you lose a life for example)
Super Mario 3 and Super Mario World, despite both being platformers, are extremely different games. I remember first playing World and thinking to myself "my god, they've thrown out all the things Mario 3 did and have gone back to the drawing board...". It honestly made me mad till I realized what a great game Mario World was.Rack said:
So yeah, a good analogy is comparing Mario 64 (Mario World) to Mario Galaxy (Mario 3). Mario World (and Mario 64) gave us a sandbox to fuck around in with just a couple of (really useful) tools. Levels are wide open, with secrets out the ass. Mario 3 (as with Mario galax..ies?) gave us a very tight, very lean and VERY challenging game play experience. It focused the experience to a laser point.
I see you completely omitted Mario World 2 (which wouldn't have helped you anyway).
Same goes with Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine. Both do have generally similar structures in terms of level design, but the waterpack completely changes the gameplay! It's nothing to shake a stick at, as these are platformers when you change the very nature of the 'platforming' in question you're making a huge difference. The water pack alone (like it or not) made Sunshine a completely different game.
So yeah, I'd say it's safe to disagree with the idea that Nintendo has been doing this for years with the core Mario franchise. About the only point you correctly made was that the J-super Mario 2 was essentially an add on for Super Mario bros, and that's something he already pointed out in the article.
I got my mom into the whole idea of gaming by giving her my DS with a copy of professor layton and the curious village. It's got a good, charming story with interesting characters and the puzzles are challenging in-and-of themselves without demanding mastery of the input device. She also really liked Exit DS and Picross.
Also, I showed Crayon Physics to my younger cousins and they made their dad buy a tablet for their laptops.
Also, I showed Crayon Physics to my younger cousins and they made their dad buy a tablet for their laptops.
So am I the only one who noticed that Yahtzee cussed out some random guy for no(good) reason. Is there some type of history between them because otherwise that was completely uncalled for.
I understand thats how he makes a living but singling out someone like he did is just plain dickish the guy didn't say anything to warrant that. Fuck you Yahtzee.
Edit: Oh and of course after reading the rest of the article thinking he might behave like a decent person and retract that I find that he instead opts to do it a second time. Lovely.
I understand thats how he makes a living but singling out someone like he did is just plain dickish the guy didn't say anything to warrant that. Fuck you Yahtzee.
Edit: Oh and of course after reading the rest of the article thinking he might behave like a decent person and retract that I find that he instead opts to do it a second time. Lovely.