On the other hand, The Lost Levels was originally SMB2 in Japan, so it's not exactly unheard of for Nintendo to put out an expansion pack sequel for Mario, they just haven't done it in a while.
Super Mario Galaxy 2
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
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Shigeru Miyamoto is a toymaker.
He makes toys for children.
Yahtzee has written a piece of work outlining why he is disappointed with a children's toy.
Why is Yahtzee playing with children's toys?
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
-1st letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians.
He makes toys for children.
Yahtzee has written a piece of work outlining why he is disappointed with a children's toy.
Why is Yahtzee playing with children's toys?
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
-1st letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians.
I think Katamari Damacy would be a good introduction to gaming as well.
Whenever I start playing a new game, I am a bit.
I think a newbie would be too scared of dying.Tommy T. said:
Whenever I start playing a new game, I am a bit.
The games that drew my mother and sister respectively into gaming were Portal and Trine. Small, cutesy games with a nice graphical veneer and a simple core gameplay mechanic are best (and no fucking cutscenes or cinematic pretention).
This may sound weird, but I think Portal would be a great first game to introduce someone to gaming. Yes, it's complex, but it starts out simple and teaches each new mechanic individually before building it up into the bigger challenge and putting all the little puzzle elements together. It's sophisticated, has great and intelligent humor, and would be a good introduction to the first person perspective, because leaving aside the turrets there's nothing trying to murder you.
Hi there! I'm a fellow Swedish person and I recall us getting the Doki Doki version of SMB2. With Mario, Luigi, Toad and Princess Peach all playable. Later on we also got Lost Levels, but that was Way much later. There were of course these cassettes available with like 31 or 51 games on them and usually the original SMB2 would be on themSunrider84 said:
As an introduction to gaming i would suggest Klonoa: door to Phantomile for the ps1.
Yeah its retro now, but its one of the games in 3d that is easily to get because it uses a 2.5d control scheme. the difficulty curve is constant, but relies more on thinking and logic than pure reflexes, and in the end you have to think a couple of moves ahead both in platforming and boss encounters.
Yeah its retro now, but its one of the games in 3d that is easily to get because it uses a 2.5d control scheme. the difficulty curve is constant, but relies more on thinking and logic than pure reflexes, and in the end you have to think a couple of moves ahead both in platforming and boss encounters.
On the "games to recommend the critical newcomer" topic, I'd list these as the reading/playing assignment for the PC centric, in no real particular order:
1) Half Life 2 - I was debating the first game, but considering just how balmy the original gets, and the excess of jumping puzzles, I think the second installment would be a great primer to the concept of modern gaming.
2) World of Goo - To counter the argument of "all games are about space marines beating up hookers". It's an absolutely beautiful puzzle game that represents some of the best of independent development efforts.
3) Fallout - One of the great classic cRPGs, and a great example of choice and consequence gameplay. While the GTA series are lauded for their sandboxy freedom, Fallout edges it out for the recommendation.
4) The Sims 3 - This may seem like a bit of a sissy recommendation, but it is one of the best "God games" currently available that doesn't require a headache or two to "complete". It really is as close to a toy box game as I can think of for the PC.
5) Grim Fandango/The Neverhood (Tie) - These two adventure games are, I feel, the creme of their gene's crop. Fandango has its distinct art style and grand tale, while The Neverhood has it's own minimalist storytelling style and quirky sense of humor.
6) Wing Commander 3 - The exception to the FMV rule, a basic but well told space opera with fun gameplay and a star-studded cast with excellent performances. While earlier Wing Commander games might be better for showing what the series was about, WC3 is the best of the series for a new player to enter.
7) American McGee's Alice - For a game based on an existing literary work, Alice is one of the best examples of taking the material and carving out a new interpretation. Admittedly a hard game, but well worth the investment of time for the visuals and story.
8) Mirror's Edge/Prince of Persia (2008)/Portal - While Portal is a bit of a no-brainer, the other two are also excellent examples of platformers with a a rich, colorful art style and gameplay not centered around "killin doods".
9) Eve Online - "Whoa," I hear you say, "That's not exactly 'first-time' gaming material!" I personally recommend it on the basis of what happens when you take a simulation to extreme levels, and exposing a new game player to the realities of player-versus-player gameplay. Everything after Eve Online seems like a cakewalk.
10) Team Fortress 2 - A multiplayer game whose style and culture rampantly bleed and infest a good chunk of the gaming demographic, it is a solid FPS multiplayer game that is simple to learn and had to master. I'd star them on a vanilla-content server to start with, and graduate them to the unlocks and hats later.
1) Half Life 2 - I was debating the first game, but considering just how balmy the original gets, and the excess of jumping puzzles, I think the second installment would be a great primer to the concept of modern gaming.
2) World of Goo - To counter the argument of "all games are about space marines beating up hookers". It's an absolutely beautiful puzzle game that represents some of the best of independent development efforts.
3) Fallout - One of the great classic cRPGs, and a great example of choice and consequence gameplay. While the GTA series are lauded for their sandboxy freedom, Fallout edges it out for the recommendation.
4) The Sims 3 - This may seem like a bit of a sissy recommendation, but it is one of the best "God games" currently available that doesn't require a headache or two to "complete". It really is as close to a toy box game as I can think of for the PC.
5) Grim Fandango/The Neverhood (Tie) - These two adventure games are, I feel, the creme of their gene's crop. Fandango has its distinct art style and grand tale, while The Neverhood has it's own minimalist storytelling style and quirky sense of humor.
6) Wing Commander 3 - The exception to the FMV rule, a basic but well told space opera with fun gameplay and a star-studded cast with excellent performances. While earlier Wing Commander games might be better for showing what the series was about, WC3 is the best of the series for a new player to enter.
7) American McGee's Alice - For a game based on an existing literary work, Alice is one of the best examples of taking the material and carving out a new interpretation. Admittedly a hard game, but well worth the investment of time for the visuals and story.
8) Mirror's Edge/Prince of Persia (2008)/Portal - While Portal is a bit of a no-brainer, the other two are also excellent examples of platformers with a a rich, colorful art style and gameplay not centered around "killin doods".
9) Eve Online - "Whoa," I hear you say, "That's not exactly 'first-time' gaming material!" I personally recommend it on the basis of what happens when you take a simulation to extreme levels, and exposing a new game player to the realities of player-versus-player gameplay. Everything after Eve Online seems like a cakewalk.
10) Team Fortress 2 - A multiplayer game whose style and culture rampantly bleed and infest a good chunk of the gaming demographic, it is a solid FPS multiplayer game that is simple to learn and had to master. I'd star them on a vanilla-content server to start with, and graduate them to the unlocks and hats later.
Ok, I'm getting mixed responses. First Croshaw says that Nintendo overuse their intellectual property, but then retracts and says that that the Mario franchise is diverse and by no means are his new games simple iteration. What am I misunderstanding here?
The way I'm reading it, is that Croshaw is saying the Mario franchise in this case is very prevalent in Nintendo products, to the point where you could swing a dead cat and usually hit a first party Nintendo product that has Mario embedded in it. Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Galaxy, Mario Tennis, Paper Mario, Mario Pole Dancing, things like that. The amount of games that Mario stars in is enormous in comparison to his peers.summerof2010 said:
However, looking at the list of games I cited above (minus Mario Pole Dancing), are not simply the same game with a new name. They're widely different products, each one usually both serving the Mario fans while being tailored to a specific genre of gameplay.
So in this case, Nintendo may whore out Mario a lot, but they whore him out for a lot of different things.
I agree that Mario, Sonic or Megaman would make good beginner games because they are simple and straight-foward, but I disagree about RPGs. Consider the attention span of the average newbie gamer, and then consider how patient a player must be watch through dialoges and cutscenes to get to the gameplay, especially with today's RPGs.Nooners said:
Personally I think Arcade games make the best demonstrations, but all the good ones are online now. I sure do miss the golden age of arcades...
Plus, I also think American Football games make good introductions too, if the person is a sportsfan. The controls are usually simple enough for a gamer newbie/football fan to pick the right play and go with, but eventually they can learn advanced controls when they get comfortable.
I think the lego games are also a good entry-level series for new gamers. They have some decent platforming elements, the controls are simple but also respond poorly at times, it encourages the "gotta collect everything" feel that most gamers have almost instinctively and they almost mandate co-op so you can be a crutch for the newb. Perhaps LBP has many similarities though. I haven't played it myself so I can't really tell but I'm sure you're probably right in your assessment.
I actually had this idea last week (which one game would you force someone to play to prove that videogames are a valid medium of expression) and was going to be all smart and make a forum post about it, but I couldn't come up with an answer. I was going to say one of the Gamecube Zeldas, since I think the GC has a really intuitive controller, and Zelda tends to be fun and engaging without being too difficult, but then I flash back to attempting to teach my mom how to play Super Swing Golf and give up on the whole idea.
I hope to god Mario games never feel like they need to be too innovative on the plot. That's not what we play them for. We have Mario RPGs for that.
I hope to god Mario games never feel like they need to be too innovative on the plot. That's not what we play them for. We have Mario RPGs for that.
Super Mario 64 has a nice and easy difficulty curve and you can learn to play as you go by reading the signs. GREAT for a new gamer. And my second or third favorite game, right after BioShock and possibly BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger. (If Continuum Shift and/or BlazBlue 3 screw it up for me, Calamity Trigger may drop a few.)
Feh, evolution be damned. Mario Galaxy 2 is enough of a better game than Galaxy 1 and on the whole *infinitely* better than Sunshine (not from a "the water pump was a stupid idea" standpoint, mind you, but from a "there were just too many @#$%ing terrible aspects" standpoint). You can talk about evolution all you like, but Galaxy 2 did what any sequel worth its salt should do--took what was good about a previous installment and expanded on it. For me, that's more than enough.
It's great when a game does more than "just" improve, mind you. But I just do not see that as a requirement for a good game or even a great game.
EDIT: Variety, on the other hand, is plenty required, but personally I see variety within a game more important than variety between games. Maybe that has something to do with me being more concerned for the eight-plus hours I spend playing the game than for the two-plus years I spend waiting for the next one.
It's great when a game does more than "just" improve, mind you. But I just do not see that as a requirement for a good game or even a great game.
EDIT: Variety, on the other hand, is plenty required, but personally I see variety within a game more important than variety between games. Maybe that has something to do with me being more concerned for the eight-plus hours I spend playing the game than for the two-plus years I spend waiting for the next one.
HA! I totally agree with the little big planet thing! I got a few friends who don't usually play video-games into it! Being a multiplayer game helps a lot with the whole "here's how you jump/here's how you grab/etc" thing, and it's simple, funny and fun!
My friends are mostly girls, so the whole "dressing up" your character stuff adds a lot to their entertainment too! Mario? It's lots of fun, but totally hard for a first timer.
I remember when I was young! I was used to 2D games (I had a megadrive. Nintendo was too expansive and my family was kinda broke at the time) and I had a kind of rich friend who had 3 different video-game platforms and she had a Nintendo64. Gooooooosh...
It was only the beginning of the 3D, but I felt so lost trying to control the characters..... (also, the controller was kind of different from what I was used to)!
Ah, I remember this was the first time I saw Ocarina of Time (I was 8 I guess... something like that)! I was fascinated by it.... but my friend got bored of it! I dreamed of finishing the game and was only able to do so last year... ah, the joy of a dream being fulfilled! *-*
Anyway.... Little big planet is a really good game to get people into gaming...
Every time my friends come visit, I already know what they want to do: play LBP.
My friends are mostly girls, so the whole "dressing up" your character stuff adds a lot to their entertainment too! Mario? It's lots of fun, but totally hard for a first timer.
I remember when I was young! I was used to 2D games (I had a megadrive. Nintendo was too expansive and my family was kinda broke at the time) and I had a kind of rich friend who had 3 different video-game platforms and she had a Nintendo64. Gooooooosh...
It was only the beginning of the 3D, but I felt so lost trying to control the characters..... (also, the controller was kind of different from what I was used to)!
Ah, I remember this was the first time I saw Ocarina of Time (I was 8 I guess... something like that)! I was fascinated by it.... but my friend got bored of it! I dreamed of finishing the game and was only able to do so last year... ah, the joy of a dream being fulfilled! *-*
Anyway.... Little big planet is a really good game to get people into gaming...
Every time my friends come visit, I already know what they want to do: play LBP.
If I was to suggest a game to a new gamer it would either be Okami (on the PS2) or one of the latest Zelda games. Zelda has a better difficulty setting, but Okami is much prettier. The only problem with Okami is that its way to easy.
Hmm. Good point.Yahtzee Croshaw said:
I don't want my kids snubbing the gems of the past, so they'll be raised on the retro games first, I think. Like any education, you've got to start with the basics. And if they don't like it, I'll double their brussel sprouts allocation.