Super straight on tiktok

Thaluikhain

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I would guess being attracted to genitals is more common than being attracted to pronouns.

Insisting that homo-/heterosexuality is all about the gender and not about the sex of a person was always a stupid idea. And it won't catch on.

That does make those super straight prankesters not one bit more likeable but they chose this topic because they perceived a weak argument there.
I'd imagine quite a few straight men and lesbians suddenly found Elliott page less attractive after reading an article online about a year ago.

Now, personally, I can't speak for Page's genitals, but then neither can most/all of those people. They just discovered they were attached to a man and that changes things.

Likewise, I suspect at least some of the same people find Caitlin Jenner more attractive nowdays than a few years back, again in ignorance of her genitals. Physically attractive, I mean, she's an evil person.

Hell, isn't porn featuring transwomen with penises more popular amongst straight men than porn featuring transmen with vaginas?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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The idea is that it's possible to be sexually attracted to somebody before you know their plumbing situation. You can't always clock a trans person, much as idiots claim otherwise (generally to the detriment of butch cis women)
If that opinion changes after you get a view of their tackle, that's a *thing* but it isn't a sexuality any more than losing interest in a gal after finding out she isn't a natural redhead.
I mean you can be sexually attracted to some-one without fully knowing them then you find out about something or learn something about them that just kills that attraction. It doesn't have to be their plumbing it could be I dunno a Graham Linehan tattoo on their inner thigh or something
 

Satinavian

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Do you think that gender is just pronouns?
Basically yes. At least that is pretty much the only component of gender people actually agree about somewhat. But as i always said, i never really got gender and don't strongly or actually feel anything about it. Took me more than half a life to recognize most other people put importance to it.
Do you think sex is just genitals?
Nope. But you already mentioned genitals a couple of times and reducing sex to genitals mirrors reducing gender to pronouns extremely well, taking both times the most blatant and agreeable component.

Unfortunately, heterosexuality makes you vulnerable to this particular form of wrong.
I am agender of male sex and attracted to people of female sex, including ciswomen and transmen. If you actually believe your own definition, i am very much not heterosexual, both for not preferring a gender and for not having one either.
And that is not just me. All those people who are "wrong" according to you and consider themself hetero can't logically be so either. Which would like mean that heterosexuality stops being a common sexuality and we don't have words anymore fitting most of the population.

I'd imagine quite a few straight men and lesbians suddenly found Elliott page less attractive after reading an article online about a year ago.
Possible. But i would guess it didn't change at all for most who consider themself straight men or lesbians and they are as attracted to Elliot as before. Insteadd of "she is cute" it is now "he is cute". Pronouns changed, nothing else. Likewiese for Caitlin Jenner who is probably still not considered attractive by those same people.

But maybe i am projecting and really makes a difference for more people than i know.

Not particular familiar with Porn trends.
 
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McElroy

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As for insecure... because they have genital preferences?
Nah. Lefties want to be clever and turn the meme on the straight people that find it funny.
I'd imagine quite a few straight men and lesbians suddenly found Elliott page less attractive after reading an article online about a year ago.
After googling a recent picture, of course. Elliot is much worse looking than they ever were as Ellen. Especially in Page's career heyday around 2010. This reveal doesn't erase the past (though it can't be brought back either). There even used to be a bi woman called Ellen Page back in the day.
 
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Thaluikhain

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After googling a recent picture, of course. Elliot is much worse looking than they ever were as Ellen. Especially in Page's career heyday around 2010. This reveal doesn't erase the past (though it can't be brought back either). There even used to be a bi woman called Ellen Page back in the day.
Elliot (always have to google if it's Elliot or Elliott) does look rather different now than in 2010, though I think part of that is aging 11 years and part of it is seemingly not aging at all after turning 14 until very recently.
 
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dreng3

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I mean you can be sexually attracted to some-one without fully knowing them then you find out about something or learn something about them that just kills that attraction. It doesn't have to be their plumbing it could be I dunno a Graham Linehan tattoo on their inner thigh or something
In which case it isn't because you have a particular sexual identity, it is because you have a preference. If you can be attracted to a transperson before finding out that they're trans you don't have a sexuality you just have a preference that strays very close to prejudice.
 

Schadrach

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You see, straight culture imbues the penis with the ability to form protective enchantments;
Harry Potter becomes much funnier in a very adolescent way if you just replace all instances of the word "wand" with "wang."

"wow, you don't get off on getting pegged, how uncultured, why I nevah!" is what it sounds like to me lol.
...and for some reason it's either getting pegged or watching other men have sex with your partner that seem to be the ones prescribed most often. Including a hoax paper accepted for publication in Sexuality and Culture about essentially pegging straight men to reduce their homophobia and transphobia:
Every black person doesn't embody 100% of black culture. Isn't this common knowledge or is "black culture" all-encompassing? They don't all wear Nike Air Jordans, do they?
Good to know that one can take many racist screeds and direct them at "black culture" instead of "black people" and they'll suddenly stop being racist.

God, why do I keep following my notifications back into this garbage fire thread
...because watching it burn is so entertaining? Or at least temporarily entrancing?

it could be I dunno a Graham Linehan tattoo on their inner thigh or something
...a sign that someone is super trustworthy and will absolutely keep their word. Because such a thing can only be the result of losing a terrible bet.
 
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Terminal Blue

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As for no difficult etc and showing the slightest affection, doesn't that rather say a lot about the state of society?
You mean how men are systematically bullied and abused for showing any signs of genial or "soft" behaviour, and in response develop a façade of toughness and emotional detachment that isolates them from any genuine intimacy outside the carefully regulated confines of a sexual relationship which is itself fraught with anxieties, expectations and conditionality. You mean how those same men will likely come to see women as fundamentally other to themselves and develop a relationship to them which is characterized by intense ambivalence and contradictory impulses of desire and devaluation. You mean how men ultimately want to be loved and nurtured and unconditionally accepted for who they are, as all humans do, but are simultaneously disgusted by their own desire for these things because it reminds them of the softness they were punished for as children, and because allowing a woman to give them what they actually want would, in their mind, constitute submission and thereby a violation of their deeply socialized sense of a natural order to the world, as well as requiring them to accept a degree of emotional dependence which is threatening to masculinity. You mean how, almost from birth, men are taught to see themselves as weak and unworthy of love, taught that the only way to earn love and acceptance is by pretending to be something less pleasant and less human than they really are and taught to feel contempt for anyone who could love them, because who could love something so wretched?

In short, yes, it says a lot about the state of society. It says a lot about a society which is built around the needs of men but which simultaneously requires men to deny their most basic human impulses to live up to a society that requires them to demonstrate their worthiness to be its centre. When I talk to my AMAB friends (because we've all had the experience of straight men hitting on or falling in love with us based on the most basic gestures of affection) it's clear that a lot of the straight men who did that were not closeted bisexuals or chasers. They weren't secretly craving that D, what they wanted was a kind of free and open intimacy that they could not imagine existing outside of a sexual relationship. They wanted to be loved and accepted for who they were, and they clearly weren't getting that in their lives (despite generally being in committed relationships). I suspect most straight men aren't really getting that in their lives.

But then, bargaining sex you don't want for intimacy you do seems very heterosexual.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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In which case it isn't because you have a particular sexual identity, it is because you have a preference. If you can be attracted to a transperson before finding out that they're trans you don't have a sexuality you just have a preference that strays very close to prejudice.
yeh but Pansexual is being attracted to people based on their personality so why can't there be a sexuality based on peoples plumbing?

Other examples:

Sapiosexual (Yes I googled this stuff) is attraction to intelligence

Skoliosexual - attraction to people based on them being non Cis-gendered.
 

McElroy

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yeh but Pansexual is being attracted to people based on their personality so why can't there be a sexuality based on peoples plumbing?

Other examples:
Sapiosexual (Yes I googled this stuff) is attraction to intelligence
Skoliosexual - attraction to people based on them being non Cis-gendered.
And normal people feel like they're missing out on this so much that super straight simply has to be a thing. Mmmmmaybe not
 
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Dreiko

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So, lets say you have an attractive feminine woman who hasn't undergone any medical procedures and she identifies as a man, if you know that yet still find her hot are you gay now? How does this work?

I don't think having sexualities based on things other than the body parts is really coherent. Things like being into intelligent people and so on are more akin to fetishes than anything more than that. People are just trying to elevate their fetishes to sexuality status so they will be more respected and have the power to claim offense if someone is weirded out by their fetish that they otherwise wouldn't have if it was the same as liking to have sex with mannequins or what have you. Which is the same thing the super straight thing is about; the ability to be able to claim offense for being criticized for not being into dudes who feel like they're women.
 

Terminal Blue

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So, lets say you have an attractive feminine woman who hasn't undergone any medical procedures and she identifies as a man, if you know that yet still find her hot are you gay now?
That's up to everyone involved, isn't it.

I mean, I would characterize a man who is attracted to feminine qualities as heterosexual. I think that's true even when a man is attracted to or even dating someone who has a penis, or if that man is specifically attracted to feminine people with penises. But at the end of the day, it's not my choice. Sexuality is a thing we constantly have to negotiate, it's not something which has rules. At the end of the day, maintaining the purity of your sexuality is pointless. You are who you are and you want what you want, and no legalistic bargaining will change that.

In my experience, straight people fixate on these arbitrary rules because they have spent absolutely no time seriously thinking about who they are or where they fit into society.

I don't think having sexualities based on things other than the body parts is really coherent.
I don't think human sexuality actually is coherent, and I think the sooner you confront that the better off you will be.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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That's up to everyone involved, isn't it.

I mean, I would characterize a man who is attracted to feminine qualities as heterosexual. I think that's true even when a man is attracted to or even dating someone who has a penis, or if that man is specifically attracted to feminine people with penises. But at the end of the day, it's not my choice. Sexuality is a thing we constantly have to negotiate, it's not something which has rules. At the end of the day, maintaining the purity of your sexuality is pointless. You are who you are and you want what you want, and no legalistic bargaining will change that.

In my experience, straight people fixate on these arbitrary rules because they have spent absolutely no time seriously thinking about who they are or where they fit into society.



I don't think human sexuality actually is coherent, and I think the sooner you confront that the better off you will be.
According to healthline attraction to feminine qualities would be

Gynesexual

while male or masculine qualities would be

Androsexual
 

Terminal Blue

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According to healthline attraction to feminine qualities would be

Gynesexual

while male or masculine qualities would be

Androsexual
Do you understand the meaning of those things?

More importantly, do you understand why the vocabulary exists?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Do you understand the meaning of those things?

More importantly, do you understand why the vocabulary exists?
Well I read the meaning.

As for why it exists that would be a wide ranging question which basically boils down to "So why don't we just add more boxes?"

Hetrosexual

Homosexual

Bi-sexual

Onmisexual

That kinda was seen as more or less covering most people though imperfect in specifics as it was.

Attracted to people of the opposite gender

Attracted to people of the same gender

Attracted to people of either gender

Horny and doesn't care

which left edges cases or scenarios not fully covered or people who didn't feel the terms were specific enough and had to define more specifically the features they like such as personality or intellect as part of their sexual identity.

It could be part of the modern world that's just trying to streamline things turning multiple things down into one word but I generally found "These are the things I find attractive [says things]" to be fine rather than having to try to find a single word to sum it all up. But hey that's just me.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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So, lets say you have an attractive feminine woman who hasn't undergone any medical procedures and she identifies as a man, if you know that yet still find her hot are you gay now? How does this work?
Honestly, I'd've figured you'd be the last person to have this question. Like, anime is practically infested with femboys to the point of being a meme.

So you're really just asking yourself "are traps gay?"

And you've handily provided an example of why trans people tend not to like that meme by somehow misgendering your own example trans dude.
 

Dreiko

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Honestly, I'd've figured you'd be the last person to have this question. Like, anime is practically infested with femboys to the point of being a meme.

So you're really just asking yourself "are traps gay?"

And you've handily provided an example of why trans people tend not to like that meme by somehow misgendering your own example trans dude.
Well it was more of a rhetorical question actually, but we can go into it.

Traps are a trope in anime sure and here's the thing (and I guess the answer to your question as well) if you just like a char but don't know they're a trap, definitely not gay. If you like a trap exactly because they're a trap, the part of it that does it for you is that they're a dude, that's definitely gay. If you like a char and I guess...kinda ignore their parts or overwrite them with your imagination (I know there's people who just like to pretend that traps are girls) that is prolly the most ambiguous to decide but I'd lean towards gay and in denial about it.

But here's the thing, traps in anime are not trans. Not most of em anyhow. They're closer to drag queens. They just like to dress and be feminine or they aren't even aware that they are doing that but actually identify as men in the vast majority of cases, so it actually has nothing to do with trans people and it's only about gay people.

Also my rhetorical question isn't even about traps or femboys, the closest would be like a reverse trap or a dude's soul being implanted into a girls' body, something like Cagliostro from Granblue.


That's up to everyone involved, isn't it.

I mean, I would characterize a man who is attracted to feminine qualities as heterosexual. I think that's true even when a man is attracted to or even dating someone who has a penis, or if that man is specifically attracted to feminine people with penises. But at the end of the day, it's not my choice. Sexuality is a thing we constantly have to negotiate, it's not something which has rules. At the end of the day, maintaining the purity of your sexuality is pointless. You are who you are and you want what you want, and no legalistic bargaining will change that.

In my experience, straight people fixate on these arbitrary rules because they have spent absolutely no time seriously thinking about who they are or where they fit into society.



I don't think human sexuality actually is coherent, and I think the sooner you confront that the better off you will be.
So that's interesting because that is close enough to a thought experiment I had, I called it the Ranma experiment. So I imagined if someone I already loved got Ranma'd somehow and they looked more or less the same but grew a dick, would I stop loving them all of a sudden? And the answer was a pretty easy no. But at the same time, I wouldn't love them because of the dick, I'd love them despite it, which I think is what you're describing there.

But to get to that stage you first would have had to engage in things that the dick kinda puts a block on instantly, so while in a thought experiment I could see that case, I don't think it's actually plausible in reality.



And see, I'm fine with agreeing it's not coherent but if we do that you can't have any rules any more. If no sexuality is coherent then we can't have sexuality-specific things that we need to follow since it's all an incoherent subjective mess. No more cliques and no more protected groups can exist.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Well it was more of a rhetorical question actually, but we can go into it.

Traps are a trope in anime sure and here's the thing (and I guess the answer to your question as well) if you just like a char but don't know they're a trap, definitely not gay. If you like a trap exactly because they're a trap, the part of it that does it for you is that they're a dude, that's definitely gay. If you like a char and I guess...kinda ignore their parts or overwrite them with your imagination (I know there's people who just like to pretend that traps are girls) that is prolly the most ambiguous to decide but I'd lean towards gay and in denial about it.
So, to recap: if you're attracted to femme presenting people that you assume identify as female, it isn't gay just because they end up having a dick. If you're attracted to femme presenting people that you know identify as male, that's gay.

Seems pretty cut and dry, dunno why you thought to add the other two paragraphs of nonsense (and insult good ol' Cags in the process)