Superheroes Movies Set Bad Example, Says Psychologist

elricik

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I remember reading the very first issue of Batman, and during it Batman actually stops fighting two people to talk to the reader and says something along the lines of "Remember kids, you should never glorify criminals. Criminals are nothing but slime without their firearms. You should become a Robin buddy and fight tyranny your own way. Like gathering up rubber for your soldiers fighting for their home front, or helping the elderly." I laughed so hard, is that what Lamb wants?
 

AlexWinter

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Dr Bob said:
Good thing Batman is not a superhero.

Hell, he's not even a hero.

He's a silent guardian.

A watchful protector.

The Dark Knight.
Nicely done. /Salute
 

samsonguy920

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She seemed to miss a lot of the underlying points in the stories on how the heroes never felt they were heroes, and what they had to do to get things done was never their choice to begin with. It fits with today's mundane people who do go out of their way to help their fellow person, and yet they would just as soon avoid the recognition. Those are people we all should aspire to be. Being able to handle our faults while finding something better in ourselves to help others.
Endocrom said:
Somebody send that woman a link to superdickery.
Seriously. And remember, wherever you go, there you are. Somehow I think that statement fits this nutcase. It's all in your point of view.
Vaccine said:
Yet without flaws, superheros would have nothing to learn and therefore have no moral message to put forward.

Even going off the Iron Man movie Tony Stark was a man who learned a lot, he ultimately moved away from his families business of death and killing and used his talent for a greater good, to help people. Kids don't look much further than that, they can't usually notice a lot references adults pick up on, this is why people like this are hacks and don't deserve to be in their field of work. They do not understand the people they study.
If people look to far past the basic message superheros embody and put forward, they wouldn't be as popular as they are today.
You read my mind...are you a superhero? o_O
Samurai Goomba said:
Heroes aren't supposed to be JesusOzymandias. If a hero is too perfect, he's boring and irritating.
Fixed that for you. Jesus had his faults and weaknesses. It's just many people put him on higher pedestal than even he felt worthy of being on. And that's what most of us see instead of scrutinizing beyond the propoganda. It goes the same as for Buddha and Mohammed. Hmm, makes me have a bit of idea what this lady is seeing for herself here.
On the other hand Ozymandias felt he was super perfection and had no faults. While watching Watchmen, I wanted to punch that smug look on his face down to his butt. I do agree with you on the point that Perfect Superheroes are not those we need to look up to.
 

Therumancer

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I think part of the problem is that we're currently in a left wing dominated society as far as the goverment and media go. As a result those are the kinds of people that are getting attention, and being given platforms to express their theories seriously.

Bear with me here. I am quite aware most people on this site are aggressively left wing, where I am (well known) to be a bit more to the right than left. However in this case consider that modern liberalism is largely based on the idealogy of the 1960s and 1970s as defined by the baby boomers, and people like Mr. Non-violence himself Martin Luther King Jr. The "peace at any price" attitude very much prevails, as well as most generally masculine character traits such as aggression, and the simple idea of solving problems rationally as opposed to emotionally and morally, are in the decline. We're in the age of the "meterosexual" so to speak, where people have not only protested things like our war in The Middle East, but also volunteered to be "human shields" in the region to try and prevent our own troops from firing on the enemy. We also have entire organizations forming to go after any hint of violence, and being taken seriously enough where they try and take action rather than just pretending they are going to.... the group going after Mcdonalds for the super hero happy meals for example.

Consider that hippies, beatniks, and other groups are reknowned for their dislike of violence. That's the baby boomers, and they aren't out of power yet, despite selling out a lot of them still hold to those principles in the back of their minds. While younger folks are involved, I think current events in general (this, the mcdonalds incident, attacks on video games, etc...) are taking place because of unprecedented oppertunities the current goverment affords, combined with it being sort of a "last hurrah" for the aging boomers to make what they see as positive idealogical changes. I think as boomers are getting older a lot of them regret selling out, and tend to embrace the rhetoric that was more common in their youth now that they feel "established", safe, and a sense of mortality is setting in. I've run into a few sociological commentaries here and there.

As far as super heroes go, I will point out that the first pulp super heroes were VERY violent, and extremely lurid. This continued up until after World War II, and into the 50s to a large extent, many people argue that with the war gone the current generation was briefly seeking a way to define itself without something as overt as a war to provide the framework. Tales of violence and adventure were common then, and certain bits like "Nazi Dominatrixs" loosely bourne of stories about people like Ilsa Kochs began to proliferate. Some things I've read about the "comics code" have argued that it was the boomers who arguably started it, deciding to define themselves by being anti-war rather than through warfare. This lead to peacenik sentiments, and attacks on the comics as a violent brainwashing tool that would corrupt our children into monsters due to the visual aspects. Horror comics, crime comics, and war comics were all part of the justification for instituting the code, it was as a result of that code that the "super idealist" hero was born, along with things like the "code against killing" and the like, many existing characters were redefined according to those standards.

Another point for consideration is of course the ways the world itself has changed, today we are more aware of violent crime, and societal rebellion has become more direct. Not to mention long series of rulings that have made it more difficult to deal with what criminals are out there. Back during the 1960s things were a bit looser and it was a little easier to believe that say "Spider Man" could beat up a mugger and leave him tied up for the police and have that result in a happy ending. It wasn't accurate, but you could see it. Today we're more aware of how the system works, and also have to deal with draconian search and seizure laws and an absolute maze of precedents that allow criminals to plea their way out of serious crimes, or just walk away in general...

Movie Bob tried to make a comment on this in his recent review of "The Other Guys" where he talked about societal rebellion, and inadvertantly sort of made the other point. Back in the 1960s the "Rebels" were mostly hipster douchebag pacifists who attended loud rallies and smoked a lot of pot. There were some violent groups out there that people tend to forget about but they weren't all that common which is one of the reasons people tend to forget about that side of things. In comparison today's rebels like to go running around with guns and at least try and act intimidating. Kind of pointed out by Moviebob's point of showing a bunch of hippies showing the old rebels, and then some dude pointing a gun as the new ones, again that was always there to some extent (look at some of the things the Hell's Angels and other big biker gangs got into, there have been specials on it on TV) but today we hear about it in real time in the most sensationalized way possible.

Super Heroes have no longer been censored, and kind of gotten back to the crime busting attitude of guys like "The Shadow" (if not the same style). Due to the greater understanding of the reader base, the way things have changed in the world, better awareness of the extent of crime, and similar things (like a lot of older readers alongside the kids) you do indeed see a lot of violence and a take on things that is a lot more realistic to help with the suspension of disbelief in that "this could work, it could happen" that is needed for the reader to enjoy such fiction while they are reading it.

There is nothing negative about super heroes, their message, or their methods. I can see where the distinction between action heroes and the like is being blurred however, but it was always that way especially when dealing with the "blazing guns" pulp heros of the past. It does however go contrary to the agenda of a lot of very vocal people who think they need to protect us from ourselves.
 

Riobux

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Svenparty said:
I think Dr.Lamb should go back to Rapture....
Beat me to it. I honestly saw "Dr Lamb" and started thinking "where have I heard this before" and then laughed when I realised where.

Still though, this tired argument of "the media corrupting kids" is another shot at the scapegoat idea. Yes, media does influence kids (you only need to Google Bandura to see proof of this), but the idea that media leads to violence is idiotic. If morals aren't built into a child, then yes it's going to act out. If you decide to make a child's role model The Punisher or 50 Cent because you can't be bothered to take proper care of it, then of course it's going to be violent, cynical and just generally a bad person.
 

DamienHell

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Wow this guy knows NOTHING of superheroes.
1. His whole complaint applies to Iron Man alone.
2. Iron Man is one of the super heroes of the past (Tales of Suspense #39 (1963))
3. Tony has always been like that, this isn't some new addition to the marvel universe.
 

Blue Musician

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I wonder who in the past 5 years has related with a superhero. I haven't, that's for sure!

But it makes me wonder, when has a superhero made a model? In Mexico at least if you try to be a hero of any sort you'll get torn apart by 5 thousand bullets.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Logan Westbrook said:
Speaking at the annual convention of the American Psychological Association, Lamb said that modern superheroes were too much like action heroes: sarcastic, aggressive, and violent. "When not in superhero costume," she said. "These men, like Iron Man, exploit women, flaunt bling and convey their manhood with high-powered guns."
Yeah, like Spiderman who treats women with respect, is usually flat broke and never uses a gun.

Or Daredevil...

Or Hulk...

Or Thor...

So, you actually mean just Iron Man then.

Apart from Iron Man doesn't have a gun out of costume.

So, your point is what?
 

ark123

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Feb 19, 2009
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Tell me about it. The other day I tried destroying a wall by putting my chin on my chest and attempting to continuously barrel-rolling into said wall, and I just hurt myself. I'm never trusting Sonic again.
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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I agree that modern concepts of superheros are dumb but apparently they have to be more "real" now. By "real" I of course mean they have to be more dark and sometimes more emo. Still, The classic Superheros is a good example of a good guy fighting for truth, justice, and American way.
 

Xanadu84

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People are giving this woman too tough a time.

Superheroes matured. They reached a point where they became legitimate, adult content. And the thing about adult content is that it's not okay for kids to see stuff aimed at adults. Kids also shouldn't read Macbeth, but that's not a slight against Macbeth. We should be celebrating the fact that superheroes evolved, not getting pissy when someone says that its not kids stuff anymore.

The only fault I see here is ignoring things like Teen Titans, or other superhero works that remain kid friendly.
 

squid5580

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ultimateownage said:
Wait, who ever thought a superhero was a good role model? That's a stupid idea, what kind of role model is that? Iron Man is a good role model because he teaches kids that murder is okay, has long has the person he is murdering is immoral? Wolverine teaches kids that it's okay to kill people if they are threatening you, even if they are doing it out of fear of you?
And what about Batman? A billionaire who puts on a cape and cowl and stops crime while contributing to tons of charities and bettering mankind with Wayne Tech industries. Who by the way has a moral code that prevents him from killing.

Or Spiderman. A hapless teen who uses nights he should be using to study or get to second base with MJ is instead sacrificing himself to help others. Meanwhile he has the powers to make him the most popular kid in class but doesn't use it for that.

And the best part of both Bruce and Pete is that they don't get any credit for what they do. They go out every movie or comic and save the day and neither one gets a simple thank you. How is that not a good message for kids?
 

Nailz

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She basically took the problems of modernity and projected it onto an isolated case rather than looking at it as it really is which is the inverse of that. These portrayals are not the reason for these problems, they are the reflection of them. Can't believe this woman gets payed, and gets to be called a "psychologist". She essentially manages to take a subject as interesting as psychology and then puts forward work based on the most petty and irrelevant attention grabbing tactics imaginable. She should be ashamed of the insignificance of her work.
 

angry_flashlight

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So you mean this THIS [http://celluloidpopculturejunkie.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/deadpool.gif] guy* isn't a good role model?
I never would have guessed, oh wait, his name is a dead giveaway! (haha! ... oh that was so bad...)

So if the main character isn't a completely white slate, that would make them bad? Well if the negative aspects of the character is all the child is looking at, then maybe, but knowing kids, they just want to see the hero punch the villain into the next country, which kind of makes the point of Dr. Lamb(chop) pointless.

*Yes I know he's an anti-hero
 

SamElliot'sMustache

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Lamb said that the superheroes of the past were much better role-models for young people, referencing Superman and the original Green Lantern as particularly good examples, because they had been invented to fight for social justice during the rise of fascism.
I couldn't help but laugh at some of the ignorance this Doctor spouted, but this one took the cake, as even back in the past, superheroes were doing things of dubious morals (I suppose Dr. Lamb is completely unaware of Frederic Wertham's anti-comics crusade?), as Superman killed people, often violently, and encouraged racism (numerous comics used phrases such as "Slap a Jap!"). Batman also did the same thing, and considering that now his non-lethal stance towards criminals is such a trope that it becomes a major plot point in The Dark Knight, I'd say superheroes actually set better examples nowadays, and she's merely looking at the world through rose-tinted glasses, even with the character flaws (that's just good writing, in my book) and the violence.

Or, perhaps Dr. Lamb prefers the more fascistic approach to vigilantism, where the 'heroes' are judge, jury, and executioner. Perhaps our heroes should be more racist, murderous, and misogynist (yes, the comics industry already is a bit, but it's way better than what was seeing print in the '30's and '40's).

P.S.: Oh, and this laughably pathetic argument also hinges on a whole solid two examples (Iron Man and Wolverine. I'll give her the Human Torch, too, just to throw her a bone), as compared to Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Daredevil (pro-bono lawyer fighting for the little guy!), and every one of the X-Men that wasn't Wolverine (and he learned to be a better person because of them), and the Hulk (who the movies have actually made more goody-goody than what Stan Lee-Jack Kirby depicted him as wayyyyy back in 1963). Oh, and three of the Fantastic Four (whose movie versions were so vanilla that even their selfish behavior was inoffensive).

P.P.S.: Oh, and is it just me, or does anybody else think that this whole "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?" nonsense that seems to pop up (oddly across the whole political spectrum) really is just a bunch of sociopaths using children to manipulate other people into getting what they want?
 

inarvan

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The psychologist's analysis is in itself improperly weighted and badly researched.

Some of these arguments are based on apparently 5 minutes reading movie reviews and a wikipedia entry regarding the characters and motivations of the heroes she discusses. Add on to that a personal moral rubrick applied to fictional characters without sufficient contextual analysis and well...I sincerely hope those who attended her speech did so only for the free coffee and doughnuts on the refreshment table.
 

inarvan

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Xanadu84 said:
People are giving this woman too tough a time.

Superheroes matured. They reached a point where they became legitimate, adult content. And the thing about adult content is that it's not okay for kids to see stuff aimed at adults. Kids also shouldn't read Macbeth, but that's not a slight against Macbeth. We should be celebrating the fact that superheroes evolved, not getting pissy when someone says that its not kids stuff anymore.

The only fault I see here is ignoring things like Teen Titans, or other superhero works that remain kid friendly.
This too.