Superman gets too much shit (And underrated heroes in general)

[Garrett]

-snip-

...You've never read a Superman comic in your life have you?

Last sole Superman comic I read was when he still couldn't fly and had to fight this thing from other dimension that he had to made spell its name backwards. For my present look on Superman, please blame people who defend him during Goku vs Superman arguments. According to them he ALWAYS uses only like 5% of his powers so he won't destroy the whole planet and other OP stuff.
Also -> http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Prime

 

[iamjonah]

Here's my problem with Superman:

He started off fine, his powers being limited to superstrength, superspeed, supersenses, and invulnerability. Basically, he could do everything normal people could do - just at the best level imaginable. You can jump; Superman can jump over buildings. You can run; Superman can outrun bullets. Essentially, he was a power fantasy.

Then time marched on. He needed to stay interesting. The easy way to do that was to add more abilities. They added x-ray vision, super hearing, and "the ability for Superman to reshape his face muscles to change his appearance" (thank you, Wikipedia).

Time continued to move on. They added the ability to fly, super genius-level intelligence, super-ventriloquism, and super-hypnosis. They also added to the other abilities. Superman's invulnerability went from "nothing less than a bursting shell could penetrate his skin" to "able to withstand the blast of an atomic bomb".

So now we have the Superman of today, who for all intents and purposes is a "God-mode Sue" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue). Yes, he technically has some weaknesses (kryptonite makes him just tired enough to sweat as he's lifting that mountain). But for the most part, he is a 80-year progression of additive wish-fulfillment fantasies from countless authors.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I like Superman because you can seemingly always count on him to do the right thing. Like the OP said he could run around going Kratos on everyone but he doesn't.

Everyone says it's ridiculous that glasses manage to hide his character but it's not just the glasses it's how he puts himself across. He pretends to be a klutz, a coward and a nerd and people just can't possibly think he is Superman. As a plain, shy woman I'm pretty certain no one notices I exist most of the time. I could get amazing powers and become a superhero tomorrow, put a tiny mask on and no one would know it was me because they couldn't possibly imagine it was me.

Harley Quinn is still my fave character (I'd say comic book but she came from the animated show). I loved her in Suicide Squad.

I think Wonder Woman is very underrated she's a greek demi goddess and awesome.

 

[Kordie]

How is being able to build the Iron Man armor not a super power?

Pretty much the same way me building a computer is not a superpower. The only suspension of belief you need to have an Ironman suit is the power source. Weather he's using an Arc reactor, solar power, or something else. If we had access to a lightweight powerful energy source we could make a similar suit fairly easily.

Even if we had something like an Arc reactor, there is no way with the technology we have today we could build a fully functional Iron Man suit.

You can read the article I edited into my last post, but here are some of the highlights.
( http://io9.com/5533077/how-much-would-it-cost-to-build-a-real-iron-man-suit )
Let's not forget that Stark industries is/was a big weapons manufacturer. They seem very similar to what DARPA is in the US. Now, let's consider what the Ironman suit actually is. Let's start with a robotic exo-skeleton. Heres a promotional video from Raytheon in 2008; Now that would need a powerful energy source. For that we have the generator from the mars rover (here) [http://www.ne.doe.gov/pdfFiles/MMRTG_Jan2008.pdf] You are then left with adding jetpacks and weapons, not exactly difficult to do at that point. I am not saying the average person could make one today, but someone with limitless resources and an engineering background like Tony Stark wouldn't have a hard time doing it.

 

[aba1]

The reason why I dont like Superman that much is because his limitations arent very well defined, there is this scene in one of the animation movies that I will use as example.

Batman and Superman are fighting against some random villains at the same time and their main target is to get Superman, Batman isnt important to them so Batman tells Superman to go away and he does... he starts flying away incredibly slowly ending up getting caught by a villain with wings in middair. What the hell, Superman? Arent you fast as shit? Didnt you raced Flash once? Even if someone grabs you just turn the turbo on, they will eventually let you go.

His powers are always toned down to make the scene more dramatic and interesting, but in the end it just seems retarded since Batman is taking a shitload of punches in the face just because Superman wanted to enjoy the view

Ya not going to lie this is why I rarely read any superman and flash. The whole time I am reading there books I am just thinking well if they had just ran in and out they could have solved the entire issue in less than a second. I don't mind the animated superman as much because at least he is consistently toned down rather than switching back and forth but the flash is almost always useless as all hell.

 

[hermes]

Superman is overpowered (compared to other super heroes), but he doesn't have to be boring. As proved by the animated series (and the justice league), interesting stories can be written about him being challenged without even recurring to kriptonite.

Besides, its not like other super heroes are not overpowered either. Case in point, Batman. Batman is the most overpowered superhero ever, because he is supposed to be human. However, for just a regular human being with a high income, he sure is a super competent detective, fighter, spy, suave, knows every language, has access to contingency plans for anything, has returned from death several times, faces planet-destroyer level villains regularly with nothing but his wits, etc... Yet we are supposed to buy that "he is just a regular man".

I am not even talking about "Silver Age Batman". By the time current Batman dodges Darkseid's Omega Beam (something that not even Superman or Flash could do, with all their powers), something is pretty messed up in their idea of "a regular man".

 

[Kordie]

That's why I said both being able to fly and do whatever superman does and being able to build the damn armor are superpowers. As in, as you said, both don't exist in real life.

Would you clasify Alfred as a superpowered for making all of batman's gear? There is a difference between having a super power and using technology. It is the same way that batman has no powers but he uses technology. In the comic universe, Tony already has access to all the pre-requisite technology. If you want to make the argument that his intelect is a super power, that is a different story (mind you one I would still debate). But inventing a power suit is not a super power.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Underappreciated? No, Superman isn't underappreciated. People might give him tons of crap but the things is, everyone knows superman. I mean freakin everyone knows who superman is. He's a pop culture icon and has been for decades. There are untold thousands if not millions of hero and villains in comics that nobody has ever heard of, but everyone knows superman. People may say good or bad things but just the fact he's so well known means that he's not underappreciated, people still recognize him and still bother to care and make arguments about him. What's more is that Superman is not a superhero, he's the superhero. He's been around since the beginning with Action Comic #1 and to a large extent what people imagine when they think 'superhero' is pretty much defined by superman. Generic superpowers, flying, super strength, resistance to damage, etc. are largely the powers of superman. He's part of what defines superheros and thus his influence which affects all superheros means that he really can't be underappreciated so long as people recognize the impact of Superman.

Anyways, I'm not familiar enough with comics to really know any underappreciated heroes (Although one underappeciated villain is certainly Baby Doll) but I do know that Aquaman gets too much crap. His characterization in the Superfriends, (which by the way mischaracterized lots of characters, including Batman) was so detrimental that any media with him that I've seen since then has gone out of its way to make him a badass because everyone thinks, 'lol aquaman'. He does more then just talk to fish you know, he's still the king of the sea. (Although giving him a hook for a hand was stupid).

 

[Saltarius]

These two guys.

Spoiler: RED/GREEN REPRESENT!

 

[IDS3Remix]

That's why I said both being able to fly and do whatever superman does and being able to build the damn armor are superpowers. As in, as you said, both don't exist in real life.

Would you clasify Alfred as a superpowered for making all of batman's gear? There is a difference between having a super power and using technology. It is the same way that batman has no powers but he uses technology. In the comic universe, Tony already has access to all the pre-requisite technology. If you want to make the argument that his intelect is a super power, that is a different story (mind you one I would still debate). But inventing a power suit is not a super power.

Ok, wait a sec. Let me see if I get this straight, flying guy who shoots lasers is a superpower but guy who builds something out of whatever the writer of the week decides is possible to build is not?

My two cents, I would not consider Iron Man to have any super powers, nor would I say Batman has any. They're just people making the use of technology the best way that they can, though I hold Batman in higher regards, as I feel like Iron Man is more or less in the most compact Gundam ever created.

 

[Kordie]

That's why I said both being able to fly and do whatever superman does and being able to build the damn armor are superpowers. As in, as you said, both don't exist in real life.

Would you clasify Alfred as a superpowered for making all of batman's gear? There is a difference between having a super power and using technology. It is the same way that batman has no powers but he uses technology. In the comic universe, Tony already has access to all the pre-requisite technology. If you want to make the argument that his intelect is a super power, that is a different story (mind you one I would still debate). But inventing a power suit is not a super power.

Ok, wait a sec. Let me see if I get this straight, flying guy who shoots lasers has superpowers but guy who builds something out of whatever the writer of the week decides is possible to build has not?

Correct. The simple fact that other people can (and do) make similar suits in the Ironman universe is evidence that the suit itself is no special accomplishment. Further, that anyone can use the suit is also evidence that there is nothing special about it's relationship with Tony Stark. Saying it is a super power to put it together is like saying the first person to develop a smart phone was super powered for putting all those capabilities in one device.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

The film Super man tends to be what I call perfect super man and frankly he tends to be so perfect that its hard to make a really great story, you can make a decent film and I did like Returns it just was well kinda bland but you get that with perfect superman.

I'd rather them do a Super man based off the 90's cartoon Superman he can get knocked around by explosives, pushed back by heavy guns, can't breath in space/water or hold his breath nearly indefinably. Flaws make for more interesting situations.

 

[Vausch]

And that in the end, even the mightiest of us are still human.

Except he isn't. Don't get me wrong, if given the option to become any superhero, Superman is the only right answer. That doesn't make him the "best" from a story telling point of view. Because Superman can literally do anything he becomes a very boring character. Characters need flaws to be interesting, they need weaknesses to overcome, an arc that ends with them as a better person. Superman doesn't do any of that. His arcs are usually the opposite, he has to lose his powers then get back to where he was at the start.

A way more interesting character is the Plutonian. If you are unfamiliar, he is pretty much superman with one distinct difference. He snapped. He just lost it, and started to ruin shit. Even as a bad guy, he is way more relatable than superman will ever be.

*edit* Plutonian Bio [http://www.comicvine.com/plutonian/29-60993/]
IMO Seeing a character like Superman break down and show his flaws makes for a really interesting story. I can also relate to it a lot more knowing that you can never do everything right.

See I don't agree with that, at all. Superman doesn't have to lose his powers in order to make for an interesting story. There are other races and characters in the DCU that are just as powerful as he is and can give him a fight on an even keel. A lot of good stories from Superman tend to arise when he has to question when the right time to use his powers is, and often he worries that if he uses them for too many situations (saving the Earth not withstanding), he'll be viewed as a god and people will stop solving their own problems and become reliant on him. There's other stories like Superman: Red Son where he did abuse his powers too much and wound up becoming a dictator, really the better stories of Superman revolve around his sense of balance between his upbringing with humanity and his Kryptonian abilities.

As for my underrated heroes, Blue Beetle (Jaime Rayes) and Captain Marvel (SHAZAM). Granted I absolutely hate what the reboot did to them since they took away from a lot of the things that made Blue Beetle good (light hearted nature, fun and interesting but still compelling villains, Jaime being smart and just telling his family about his powers so they have more protection from harm by knowing) and Billy Batson went from being the kind-hearted boy scout that would do anything for anybody into a snarky little shit that I can't see the wizard actually giving the powers of SHAZAM, but I always have older comics or I can just wait until DC just says "This is Earth 16 it wasn't really a reboot please love us again!".

 

[mattttherman3]

Well from what I've seen in the New 52, Superman isn't as strong as he used to be, he wears ARMOR now, so perhaps that will make it more interesting in future story arcs.

 

[Kordie]

That's why I said both being able to fly and do whatever superman does and being able to build the damn armor are superpowers. As in, as you said, both don't exist in real life.

Would you clasify Alfred as a superpowered for making all of batman's gear? There is a difference between having a super power and using technology. It is the same way that batman has no powers but he uses technology. In the comic universe, Tony already has access to all the pre-requisite technology. If you want to make the argument that his intelect is a super power, that is a different story (mind you one I would still debate). But inventing a power suit is not a super power.

Ok, wait a sec. Let me see if I get this straight, flying guy who shoots lasers has superpowers but guy who builds something out of whatever the writer of the week decides is possible to build has not?

Well, yes. Doing the impossible is a superpower, doing the possible is not.

But is only possible inside the comic, you said that both Batman and Ironman show the potential for a person to become great, but those things are as impossible outside the comic as what Superman does. They are only human because the authors said that they are, but in truth you can relate to them as much as you can relate to heroes that are aliens or gods or whatever superheroes are supposed to be.

The point I was making is not that it was practical for any person to become batman or ironman, it's that in their world it is possible for anyone to be them. Anyone can be batman, and the hood has changed heads a few times showing that. The only thing really stopping anyone else from wearing the Ironman suit specificaly is Tony's ego, and yet we still have war machine. War machine is another example of a person with no powers being awesome. These heros are just people being extraordinary, and that is what I look up to and can. Compared to superman who is just simply super. Through no effort of his own, he just has powers because hes a kryptonian on earth.

 

[Yopaz]

Superman might have the same depth as any other character, I don't really know nor do I think any superhero really got that much depth. However Superman is perfect. Only one weakness and besides that he can't be beaten, he's a nice guy, helpful, intelligent. There are no flaws in his personality, his appearance. There's also the fact that his disguise is that he's not wearing glasses. He must be the only person in the world that gets away with a secret identity by showing his face more.

 

[4173]

Too few writers can be sentimental rather than sappy. That's why Superman gets so much ridicule.


Obligatory All-Star Superman mention, yadda yadda.

 

[Sparrow]

And that in the end, even the mightiest of us are still human.

Except he isn't. Don't get me wrong, if given the option to become any superhero, Superman is the only right answer. That doesn't make him the "best" from a story telling point of view. Because Superman can literally do anything he becomes a very boring character. Characters need flaws to be interesting, they need weaknesses to overcome, an arc that ends with them as a better person. Superman doesn't do any of that. His arcs are usually the opposite, he has to lose his powers then get back to where he was at the start.

And this is where all of Superman's undeserved hate comes from. I can guarantee half the people who say this haven't read any of his comics.

Superman, like Batman, is far more interesting when it's not about him overcoming some threat that you know he can totally just punch in the face. The most interesting stories involving Superman are the ones that deal with his ideals and his personality.

Red Son is the perfect example of this. In Red Son Superman's powers are essentially used for evil, for communism. He's taught to use them for things the American Supes never world. He essentially enslaves the world to eradicate crime.

Superman vs The Elite is another good example of this. Superman is cast aside by the public in favour of heroes who kill villians, as the people think their method of dealing with crime is the only proper solution. Superman has to deal with the public supporting something he believes is evil, which essentially makes Superman ask himself whether he exists to serve the people or whether he exists to do good regardless of public opinion.

Speeding Bullets is a story in which Bruce Wayne was never born, and Kal-El lands in Gotham instead of Smallvile. Even though he calls himself Superman, he dresses and acts just like Batman. The point of the story is to ask whether or not Superman would still treat crime the same, even if he was raised in such an evil environment as Gotham.

And then there's All-Star Superman. There are a bunch of great examples of what I'm talking about in All-Star Superman, but my favourite is Superman dealing with the death of Pa Kent. His adoptive father suffers a heart attack, and Superman suddenly faces the one thing he can't beat by punching it in the face: natural death. What's even better about this story is the fact that Superman has to travel back in time to watch this event take place for the second time and can't interfere even though he could have saved his father. He's just got to sit back and watch as he loses a second father for the second time

I can sit here and quote examples all day, but my main point is that Superman's lack of flaws is his flaw. He's held to great standards, and yet time and time again he's knocked down a few pegs and shown that even though he's the strongest person in the universe there are still some things he can never beat. And THAT is why he's a great character.

 

[Hattingston]

I don't care for Superman for basically the reasons you said that you liked him. He's basically a god, who's perfect in every way. Part of the reason I like Batman is because he's flawed, his psyche is so jacked up that he attempts to impersonate his greatest fear to scare others. Tony Stark is interesting because he's not an angel, he drinks, sleeps around, and can be a bit of a douche in general. Superman is just perfect. There's absolutely nothing wrong with him, he's a great guy. And that's why his comics aren't fun to read.

 

[gwilym101]

The problem with superman is that he can only have two enemies who seriously threaten him, either fellow people who are insanely over-powered, or billionaires who can either block out the sun or afford a element that only exists on a now destroyed planet that renders supermans powers obsolete, also, his disguise is terrible, he wears glasses and suddenly who the hell is that guy?

The main explanations for people not realise CK is superman I've heard is A) He acts completely different as Clark Kent, so people don't realise. But the better one I've heard is B) Superman doesn't wear a mask like other superheroes, so people don't think he has a secret identity at all.

Personally the only really good superman stories i've seen are ones where he's becoming superman, like Smallville, or alternate origin stories. So he's more relatable but still has all the powers.

Also most of the films don't challenge supermans idealogy, they never really put him in a situation were the easiest option would be to simply kill someone. Hopefully Man of Steel wil change that as he's fighting Zod and co. the others it's just a "Save the innocents!" job, rather than a "You'll have to kill me, to stop me" and then finding a way around that.