Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade; states can ban abortion

Silvanus

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A major plank of the single justice's opinion was not that other things like gay marriage need to be reexamined.
A major plank of the argument was that rights must have a "historical" basis.

It's a show in America too...
Ok, whatever? So you understand why they have lawyers give opinions even though it doesn't affect the outcome.

So there is no ban on trans military? So they have that right it looks like.
Because the Dems repealed the ban. So you can see how easily taken away these rights are.

Athletics is based on sex, not gender.
Uh-huh, and in some areas, kids aren't allowed to take part.

Stores have always been allowed to discriminate based on anything, it's private property, they can tell you to leave because you have on jorts if they want.
No, this is categorically false. Stores are not allowed to just refuse service to someone based on the colour of their skin. That's absolutely illegal. There are certain protected characteristics.

Again, what rights, just sounds like they might not be able to use the bathroom they want... and like where is that actually gonna be enforced...?
So your counter-argument is just.... a personal assumption that it won't be enforced, because... what? Because you personally haven't heard about it?

Just give empathy a try. Just try it once, you might like it.

And dems vote on things that majorly help gay people? Because they actually don't vote on such things.
Gay marriage was passed in so many states before Obergell solely because of Dem votes (with Republicans stridently voting against). It was Dem justices in SCOTUS that got Obergefell passed, against Republican opposition. Workplace protections against discrimination have been passed by Dem votes, against Republican opposition. That trans military ban was repealed... by the Dems. Against Republican opposition.
 

Phoenixmgs

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First of all, no. Secondly, most people here aren't really fans of democrates either since they're just as much in the pockets of corporations as republicans are.

And it's cute you keep saying this, seeing as half of US citizens rights have been taken away by the Right just two months ago. No, scratch that, it's not cute, it's fucking sad.
Then, why have black people been migrating back south if they have less opportunity there? You don't have to vote for democrats, why would you vote for someone you're not a fan of? The right was just not something the federal government could give.

He says, after saying that the 13th amendment is fine as it is, allowing for slavery as long as it's prisoners
Yes, I am for the covid vaccine, fucking hell. I'm also for the polio vaccine, the MMR vaccine, the chicken pox vaccine, the tetanus vaccine, the HPV vaccine, all of the hepatitis vaccines, the flu vaccines, and any other vaccines not mentioned by name
Hell of a backpedal
Oh, we absolutely should. Just miss me with the "healthcare has always been fine, look we can change it" justification. "The best we could at the time" was "slavery is great, women and poor people shouldn't vote, and the natives are camping out on our land"
Which doesn't matter when 5/9ths of the court are ideologues who don't give a shit.
Except when we already *have* Thing B, and you're willing to sacrifice it for...?
Well, there's this bit where in some states a 10 year old rape victim would need to stay pregnant until it almost kills them, even if it would cause permanent injury.
EDIT: Lmao, totally the same
So the 9th means nothing and you shouldn't've brought it up.
Lmao
...did you miss that whole legal fight?
And you've just invented the "No Blacks Allowed" sign, amazing.
Having prisoners work is not something people consider as "slavery" because it's completely different from owning people. How hard is that a concept to understand?

My bad I forgot to put the word mandate in there, are you for or against the covid vaccine mandates?

It's politics, most things are done for political purposes. I do think a significant amount on the right do feel abortion is morally wrong so, on that, they fought for their morals vs just doing it for political gain (if anything, it will hurt them politically). If the left was as morally genuine for abortion, they would've actually codified it.

It was very different times, that was the best they could do. Probably 200 years from now, people will look back at this time similarly.

Justices just don't vote based on ideologies, they care about the law.

I didn't say sacrifice anything, I said prioritize. They want you bickering over things that don't matter much, that's why it keeps coming up in the national discussion. If Thing_B is being talked about is deflecting discussion away from Thing_A, the thing they really don't want the people up in arms about.

Do you not understand what the face and heel are?

The 9th was never used as an argument against slavery so we don't know.

Yes, you can't get kicked out for race but the store owner can say it's for something else. The point is to get to a place where society deems that as bad and then people won't go to that store if they don't let black people in, and that has happened.
 

Phoenixmgs

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A major plank of the argument was that rights must have a "historical" basis.



Ok, whatever? So you understand why they have lawyers give opinions even though it doesn't affect the outcome.



Because the Dems repealed the ban. So you can see how easily taken away these rights are.



Uh-huh, and in some areas, kids aren't allowed to take part.



No, this is categorically false. Stores are not allowed to just refuse service to someone based on the colour of their skin. That's absolutely illegal. There are certain protected characteristics.



So your counter-argument is just.... a personal assumption that it won't be enforced, because... what? Because you personally haven't heard about it?

Just give empathy a try. Just try it once, you might like it.



Gay marriage was passed in so many states before Obergell solely because of Dem votes (with Republicans stridently voting against). It was Dem justices in SCOTUS that got Obergefell passed, against Republican opposition. Workplace protections against discrimination have been passed by Dem votes, against Republican opposition. That trans military ban was repealed... by the Dems. Against Republican opposition.
And, how many damn times do I have to say this, abortion does not equal gay marriage.

I meant voting in America is just a show. Justices do care about law and you sway them via a strong legal argument.

Military things and general rights are 2 different things.

Kids can take part is sports in any area.

Yes, they cannot but they can use a different excuse if they want to.

It's not about empathy, it's keeping pressure on to get the much bigger picture things done that help far far far more people (that include groups like minorities and trans). Stop falling for the distractions.

Then why do those groups have more opportunity in red states?
 

Silvanus

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And, how many damn times do I have to say this, abortion does not equal gay marriage.
You can say it as many times as you like. Doesn't make a single little difference to the argument. They used an argument which could be equally applied to both; they explicitly wrote into the opinion that it applies to both.

I meant voting in America is just a show. Justices do care about law and you sway them via a strong legal argument.
Sure they do. That's why the Justices on the SCOTUS vote in line with their party platforms almost all of the time. So, pray tell, if you consider gay marriage completely legally solid, and also believe the SCOTUS Justices are just led by good legal understanding.... how come the Republican justices voted against it? How come the vote against was solely Republican? Sure looks like personal politics swaying the argument to me.

Yes, they cannot but they can use a different excuse if they want to.
...And if it was found to be down to race, then they would be breaking the law. A law exists explicitly to prevent discrimination on those grounds.

But the Republicans want to open that up, so that discrimination itself is perfectly legal and fine against gay people if you slap a religious exemption on it.

Then why do those groups have more opportunity in red states?
Simple: they don't.
 
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Avnger

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Opportunity for what exactly?
On average, the opportunities to be poorer, lack education opportunities, and die earlier compared to a hypothetical equivalent person in "blue" states.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Having prisoners work is not something people consider as "slavery" because it's completely different from owning people. How hard is that a concept to understand?
Except the 13 explicitly allows for slavery. Pretending it's not that because the prisoners get $0.25/hr that they have to spend of phone calls and $4 ramen is pathetic.
My bad I forgot to put the word mandate in there, are you for or against the covid vaccine mandates?
Same as I am for MMR vaccine mandates
It's politics, most things are done for political purposes. I do think a significant amount on the right do feel abortion is morally wrong so, on that, they fought for their morals vs just doing it for political gain (if anything, it will hurt them politically). If the left was as morally genuine for abortion, they would've actually codified it.
So?
It was very different times, that was the best they could do. Probably 200 years from now, people will look back at this time similarly.
************ most of the founding fathers loved it that way.
Justices just don't vote based on ideologies, they care about the law.
Gay marriage, an open and shut 14th amendment case, was decided 5-4
I didn't say sacrifice anything, I said prioritize. They want you bickering over things that don't matter much, that's why it keeps coming up in the national discussion. If Thing_B is being talked about is deflecting discussion away from Thing_A, the thing they really don't want the people up in arms about.
Consider, perhaps, that it's not a distraction but is, in fact, multiple attacks.
Do you not understand what the face and heel are?
Wrestling terms dictating good guys and bad guys that you keep misusing in order to pretend that the people who want child rape victims to give birth at great risk to themselves are exactly the same as people who don't want that
The 9th was never used as an argument against slavery so we don't know.
Lmao
Yes, you can't get kicked out for race but the store owner can say it's for something else. The point is to get to a place where society deems that as bad and then people won't go to that store if they don't let black people in, and that has happened.
A major part of the reason we are in that place is because we made it literally illegal. The Supreme Court forced interracial marriage to be legal. Interracial marriage was codified by the Supreme Court 25 years before it went 50/50 for approval with the population. It said that freedom to marry was a fundamental right in the constitution.

Again, the vote for gay marriage went 5-4. And the 4 is now 6. And you want to pretend Justices don't vote via ideology? Fuck off with that
 
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Casual Shinji

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Then, why have black people been migrating back south if they have less opportunity there?
I don't know. I highly doubt it has anything to do with the Right being more accepting of the black community.

You don't have to vote for democrats, why would you vote for someone you're not a fan of?
Where did I say you have to vote for democrates?

The right was just not something the federal government could give.
They already gave it, then the Right took it away. This right was there and everyone was happy, except zealots and anti-abortionists who couldn't stand the fact that everyone (yes everyone, even them) had a choice, so they took it away. And now we have underaged rape victims forced to carry their rapist child and women being forced to carry rotting fetusses in their wombs. But no, that's totally not the fault of the people that have been pushing for this to be overturned, and then was overturned by the people who lied to get their job.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Except the 13 explicitly allows for slavery. Pretending it's not that because the prisoners get $0.25/hr that they have to spend of phone calls and $4 ramen is pathetic.
Same as I am for MMR vaccine mandates
So?
************ most of the founding fathers loved it that way.
Gay marriage, an open and shut 14th amendment case, was decided 5-4
Consider, perhaps, that it's not a distraction but is, in fact, multiple attacks.
Wrestling terms dictating good guys and bad guys that you keep misusing in order to pretend that the people who want child rape victims to give birth at great risk to themselves are exactly the same as people who don't want that
Lmao
A major part of the reason we are in that place is because we made it literally illegal. The Supreme Court forced interracial marriage to be legal. Interracial marriage was codified by the Supreme Court 25 years before it went 50/50 for approval with the population. It said that freedom to marry was a fundamental right in the constitution.

Again, the vote for gay marriage went 5-4. And the 4 is now 6. And you want to pretend Justices don't vote via ideology? Fuck off with that
That average person doesn't consider prisoners working as "slavery" because it's a different thing that is still technically slavery but it's not really slavery either.

So you are for covid vaccine mandates? Then how can you be for forcing people to get vaccinated (no choice) yet for abortions and women having a choice?

I was merely stating that democrats weren't morally in on abortions and they didn't actually care enough to have codified it. Then you claim I was backtracking because I said most of the things politicians do are for political reasons...

But how was gay marriage argued? Little of the arguing was actually based on how gay people were disadvantaged and based on how they should be equal. If marriage provided no benefits, then they would be equal even if they couldn't marry.

But was that their actual ideals? We all love things that aren't right, I'd love to not have to work.

It's distractions... gay marriage is not being overturned.

They are playing the same game together. One side has to look bad/different to get you voting for the other side. This following is the smartest bit from Don't Look Up (one of the few actual smart bits from that movie):
There's three types of American people. There are you, the working class. Us, the cool rich, and then them. I'm sorry, but we need them. We need them because you build us up to fight them.

When was the 9th used in court to argue against slavery?

Something legal doesn't matter with regards to whatever the population thinks. I bet the majority of the population didn't like Cosby getting off but that was the only legal thing to do with his case. Did Cosby just get off because the judge's ideology was pro-rape or pro-Cosby or pro-pudding? This is getting ridiculous.

I don't know. I highly doubt it has anything to do with the Right being more accepting of the black community.

Where did I say you have to vote for democrates?

They already gave it, then the Right took it away. This right was there and everyone was happy, except zealots and anti-abortionists who couldn't stand the fact that everyone (yes everyone, even them) had a choice, so they took it away. And now we have underaged rape victims forced to carry their rapist child and women being forced to carry rotting fetusses in their wombs. But no, that's totally not the fault of the people that have been pushing for this to be overturned, and then was overturned by the people who lied to get their job.
The left isn't also that accepting of the black community, why do you think blue cites are more segregated? Also, it's not like there ain't tons of former sundown towns up north. There's tons in northern Illinois for example that still don't look all that kindly upon black people. So thinking the north isn't racist and the south is racist isn't very accurate.

Many people think they have to vote for democrats because they don't like republicans. Generally people vote against someone vs actually voting for someone.

It wasn't theirs to give especially based on that complete shit of an argument that makes no sense and isn't applied to other medical procedures.


HAHA, good joke
It wasn't theirs to give especially based on that complete shit of an argument that makes no sense and isn't applied to other medical procedures. So should Cosby be in jail because he was wrongfully imprisoned just because he was imprisoned at one point?
 

Phoenixmgs

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You can say it as many times as you like. Doesn't make a single little difference to the argument. They used an argument which could be equally applied to both; they explicitly wrote into the opinion that it applies to both.



Sure they do. That's why the Justices on the SCOTUS vote in line with their party platforms almost all of the time. So, pray tell, if you consider gay marriage completely legally solid, and also believe the SCOTUS Justices are just led by good legal understanding.... how come the Republican justices voted against it? How come the vote against was solely Republican? Sure looks like personal politics swaying the argument to me.



...And if it was found to be down to race, then they would be breaking the law. A law exists explicitly to prevent discrimination on those grounds.

But the Republicans want to open that up, so that discrimination itself is perfectly legal and fine against gay people if you slap a religious exemption on it.



Simple: they don't.
It can't be applied to gay marriage...

The argument wasn't that concerned with how gay people were disadvantaged and mainly about how it's just unfair that they couldn't marry and didn't really get into proving how it's unfair.

Like I already said, it is basically legal already to discriminate. And if a business is known to discriminate, they will probably lose business because who doesn't have a friend or family member that is gay and would continue to do business at a place that discriminates?

They very much do.

Opportunity for what exactly?
To buy homes, acquire generational wealth, access to better schools, etc.
 

Silvanus

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It can't be applied to gay marriage...
Says you. The Justices disagree. You're not even trying to address this anymore; just responding with, "nuh-uh it's this way".

The argument wasn't that concerned with how gay people were disadvantaged and mainly about how it's just unfair that they couldn't marry and didn't really get into proving how it's unfair.
This doesn't address the question at all. Let me ask it again in the dim hope for an answer.

You consider gay marriage to be legally completely solid. You also consider the SCOTUS Justices to be led by an understanding of law, rather than their personal prejudices. Correct? So, then, why did the Republican Justices vote against Obergefell? How do you square those two facts?

Like I already said, it is basically legal already to discriminate. And if a business is known to discriminate, they will probably lose business because who doesn't have a friend or family member that is gay and would continue to do business at a place that discriminates?
And like I already said, it's literally, undeniably illegal to discriminate against customers on certain grounds.

The fact that you believe that discrimination is purely legal in the US, and that market forces will just naturally sort discrimination out, is peak naivete. I hate to tell you this, but a lot of establishments would discriminate on the basis of race, sexuality, religion, and a dozen other grounds if they could. They are prevented from doing so by law. And the Republican Party pushes to undo that.

They very much do.
Cool argument.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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That average person doesn't consider prisoners working as "slavery" because it's a different thing that is still technically slavery but it's not really slavery either.

So you are for covid vaccine mandates? Then how can you be for forcing people to get vaccinated (no choice) yet for abortions and women having a choice?
The man arguing that slavery doesn't count because the average person doesn't think that slavery is slavery is now saying that mandating the MMR vaccine and forcing somebody to remain medical equipment to a whole other person for nine months at great physical and mental cost to themselves are the same thing. Amazing. Explain to me how you want measles to make a comeback? And before you say "but that's not covid", it's still a vaccine mandate. Same logic applies
I was merely stating that democrats weren't morally in on abortions and they didn't actually care enough to have codified it. Then you claim I was backtracking because I said most of the things politicians do are for political reasons...
Irrelevant.
But how was gay marriage argued? Little of the arguing was actually based on how gay people were disadvantaged and based on how they should be equal. If marriage provided no benefits, then they would be equal even if they couldn't marry.
And it would still be wrong. Hilarious argument by the way "oh but if they got rid of tax breaks, it would be fine to let one set of adults get married but ban a different set of adults from getting married". Like, you know that if they aren't equal, than one set is disadvantaged, yeah? That's baked in? How the fuck you you have two sets of people somehow not be equal, but also not have advantage or disadvantage?
But was that their actual ideals? We all love things that aren't right, I'd love to not have to work.
The ideals for most of them were that women and poor folk were too stupid to vote, that black people weren't really people if you think about it, and that the natives should be forced to move and should be shot if they didn't. Because that's what ended up being written. That's how this works.
When was the 9th used in court to argue against slavery?
Why would it have to be? The 9th was used to try and protect the right to vote and yet we needed the 14th and a whole fucking slew of laws to actually make that happen. The fuck do you think it would do to slavery?
Something legal doesn't matter with regards to whatever the population thinks. I bet the majority of the population didn't like Cosby getting off but that was the only legal thing to do with his case. Did Cosby just get off because the judge's ideology was pro-rape or pro-Cosby or pro-pudding? This is getting ridiculous.
Hey man, you started it. Now you're deflecting to Cosby instead of owning up to the fact that the very cut and dry 14th amendment gay marriage case getting decided 5-4 and the 4 is 6 now.
The left isn't also that accepting of the black community, why do you think blue cites are more segregated? Also, it's not like there ain't tons of former sundown towns up north. There's tons in northern Illinois for example that still don't look all that kindly upon black people. So thinking the north isn't racist and the south is racist isn't very accurate.
Correct, most of the country, on a systemic level, is still very racist and not the bastion of equality you're pretending it always was
Many people think they have to vote for democrats because they don't like republicans. Generally people vote against someone vs actually voting for someone.

It wasn't theirs to give especially based on that complete shit of an argument that makes no sense and isn't applied to other medical procedures.
...if it wasn't theirs to give, then any Democrat effort to codify Roe federally was doomed from the start, because that wasn't the federal government's right to give. You get that, right? And yet you're still here blasting them for it? You're mad at the democrats for not doing something you think they weren't allowed to do anyway.

So now I'm voting for Democrats because if I don't, the GOP is gonna change Montana's constitution and, based on laws in other states, start forcing child rape victims to remain pregnant even if it cripples them long term
 
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Casual Shinji

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The left isn't also that accepting of the black community, why do you think blue cites are more segregated? Also, it's not like there ain't tons of former sundown towns up north. There's tons in northern Illinois for example that still don't look all that kindly upon black people. So thinking the north isn't racist and the south is racist isn't very accurate.
Almost like systemic racism is a thing.

Many people think they have to vote for democrats because they don't like republicans. Generally people vote against someone vs actually voting for someone.
Yes.

It wasn't theirs to give especially based on that complete shit of an argument that makes no sense and isn't applied to other medical procedures.
It was already given. I don't give a flying fuck on what supposed shitty argument it was based, the only argument that matters is that women have the right to their own bodies, and Roe v. Wade gave them that. End of story. The fact that it needed to be given at all was fucking disgusting, and the fact that Republicans took it away is even more revolting.
 

Agema

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The left isn't also that accepting of the black community, why do you think blue cites are more segregated?
As a general rule US cities tend to be blue, period. Given this simple fact alone, I suspect your comment is a lot less meaningful than you think. Then one also needs to consider wealth distribution, and many other factors.
 

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Says you. The Justices disagree. You're not even trying to address this anymore; just responding with, "nuh-uh it's this way".



This doesn't address the question at all. Let me ask it again in the dim hope for an answer.

You consider gay marriage to be legally completely solid. You also consider the SCOTUS Justices to be led by an understanding of law, rather than their personal prejudices. Correct? So, then, why did the Republican Justices vote against Obergefell? How do you square those two facts?



And like I already said, it's literally, undeniably illegal to discriminate against customers on certain grounds.

The fact that you believe that discrimination is purely legal in the US, and that market forces will just naturally sort discrimination out, is peak naivete. I hate to tell you this, but a lot of establishments would discriminate on the basis of race, sexuality, religion, and a dozen other grounds if they could. They are prevented from doing so by law. And the Republican Party pushes to undo that.



Cool argument.
You're just responding with fear mongering bullshit that isn't true. The justices don't disagree, the one said it should be reconsidered, not that gay marriage is not protected by the constitution.

Because the argument was just that gay marriage should be legal because it just should vs making strong arguments on why it's actually unfair. When left with such vague argument, you can use the law to say either conclusion really. I think only one of the dissenters even brought up anything along the lines of the historical argument you keep saying is why they'd be against it.

I'm not saying that doesn't help. I'm saying in a real racist town, the law will not be enforced.

Yeah, cool argument as you don't post anything to the contrary and just say the opposite of me.

The man arguing that slavery doesn't count because the average person doesn't think that slavery is slavery is now saying that mandating the MMR vaccine and forcing somebody to remain medical equipment to a whole other person for nine months at great physical and mental cost to themselves are the same thing. Amazing. Explain to me how you want measles to make a comeback? And before you say "but that's not covid", it's still a vaccine mandate. Same logic applies
Irrelevant.
And it would still be wrong. Hilarious argument by the way "oh but if they got rid of tax breaks, it would be fine to let one set of adults get married but ban a different set of adults from getting married". Like, you know that if they aren't equal, than one set is disadvantaged, yeah? That's baked in? How the fuck you you have two sets of people somehow not be equal, but also not have advantage or disadvantage?
The ideals for most of them were that women and poor folk were too stupid to vote, that black people weren't really people if you think about it, and that the natives should be forced to move and should be shot if they didn't. Because that's what ended up being written. That's how this works.
Why would it have to be? The 9th was used to try and protect the right to vote and yet we needed the 14th and a whole fucking slew of laws to actually make that happen. The fuck do you think it would do to slavery?
Hey man, you started it. Now you're deflecting to Cosby instead of owning up to the fact that the very cut and dry 14th amendment gay marriage case getting decided 5-4 and the 4 is 6 now.
Correct, most of the country, on a systemic level, is still very racist and not the bastion of equality you're pretending it always was
...if it wasn't theirs to give, then any Democrat effort to codify Roe federally was doomed from the start, because that wasn't the federal government's right to give. You get that, right? And yet you're still here blasting them for it? You're mad at the democrats for not doing something you think they weren't allowed to do anyway.

So now I'm voting for Democrats because if I don't, the GOP is gonna change Montana's constitution and, based on laws in other states, start forcing child rape victims to remain pregnant even if it cripples them long term
The difference between the covid mandates and MMR mandates is one stops viruses from circulating and the other doesn't. If something is only helping me, why should I be forced to get it? Are you gonna force people not the drink pop (which causes far more death and medical issues than covid could ever cause)? There's a reason why haven't had pop in over 20 years. Even abortion has more people it's affecting than the covid vaccine. And the difference between having prisoners work and owning people is massive.

That was your argument not mine...

Gay people could just make their own church and have marriage if the government didn't recognize marriage and the normal churches wouldn't marry them so how would they be unequal in that scenario? The could do exactly what straight people could then. You actually have to be disadvantaged in some way to not be equal.

Where is that written in the Declaration or Constitution?

It still has to be argued, I really don't understand how you don't understand this. If you were told you can't say something and didn't use the 1st amendment as your defense, then that's on you.

BECAUSE OF THE ARGUMENTS...

Most people live in very populated areas (I wanna say it's like 80% without re-looking it up) and those people aren't very racist at all. Maybe the majority of the land of the US is racist but not most of the people.

AGAIN, YOU DON'T GET IT, IT'S THE FUCKING ARGUMENTS!!! Roe wasn't argued well at all, they didn't use the 14th amendment for example, they didn't do what RGB said should've been argued. The manner in which Roe was argued, it wasn't the federal government's right to give. If you argue it like RGB wanted, then it might be.


Almost like systemic racism is a thing.

Yes.

It was already given. I don't give a flying fuck on what supposed shitty argument it was based, the only argument that matters is that women have the right to their own bodies, and Roe v. Wade gave them that. End of story. The fact that it needed to be given at all was fucking disgusting, and the fact that Republicans took it away is even more revolting.
Systemic racism that is perpetuated by left polices...

You should vote for people that you want to vote for.

You're just ignoring the fact that there's a whole other body present in the abortion debate. If it was just women having a right to do with their body what they want, it wouldn't be a thing that is argued now here in the US and literally the rest of the world.
 

Phoenixmgs

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As a general rule US cities tend to be blue, period. Given this simple fact alone, I suspect your comment is a lot less meaningful than you think. Then one also needs to consider wealth distribution, and many other factors.
Our recent analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data revealed that blue states like California, New York, and Massachusetts have substantially higher levels of wage and income inequality than red states like Indiana, Missouri and West Virginia.
 

Agema

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Our recent analysis of U.S. Census Bureau data revealed that blue states like California, New York, and Massachusetts have substantially higher levels of wage and income inequality than red states like Indiana, Missouri and West Virginia.
Yes, exactly. Now put 2+2 together.

:rolleyes:
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Jul 18, 2009
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Systemic racism that is perpetuated by left polices...
No actually Capitalism does that, which isn't Left.

You should vote for people that you want to vote for.
And?

You're just ignoring the fact that there's a whole other body present in the abortion debate. If it was just women having a right to do with their body what they want, it wouldn't be a thing that is argued now here in the US and literally the rest of the world.
No, it's just the woman. Unfortunately women are deemed untrustworthy with this decision by the many assholes in the US and the rest of the world.