Swatter Arrested, Could Face Five Years in Prison

[2012 Wont Happen]

"Let's take already criminal people and put them in very bad conditions surrounded only by other criminals. That'll straighten them up!"
- USA logic

Can't really be happy about anyone going to American prison who isn't a murderer sentenced to life. The lifers aren't gonna come out, so while it's bad that their conditions are awful, it is not so dangerous for everyone else. A person like this though, who is clearly intelligent, set to do a five year stint, that is terrifying. Just image what crimes this man will know how to commit after five years among career criminals. Now, just imaging how many more crimes he will be willing to commit after five years in hell.

Our prison system makes criminals worse. Until it is fixed, it will do more harm than good to society to incarcerate criminals, other than lifers. Now, I'm not saying I don't think prison systems are generally necessary, simply that ours is so broken that it is worse than useless.

 

[Scorpid]

I know what swatting is and its still harsh. Swatting is a terrible and a stupid fucking thing to do but so is taking someones life away from them.

What are you implying here? That his life was "unjustly" taken away from him?

If he sincerely felt that way, then to him, I'd have only one thing to say:


If this young man didn't want his life taken away from him, as you put it, maybe he shouldn't have lied to police to send a team of heavily armed police to traumatize a completely innocent human being, and send threats of identity theft and destroying the finances of an entire family? Maybe, he shouldn't have done all that?

Look, I understand. I really do. But personally, I find the sympathy towards this man to be misplaced. In the messy criminal justice system, through the chaos and mass complications of human lives, and the unimaginable amount of factors that go into a crime being committed. There still is such thing as personal responsibility. He is personally responsible for his, ultimately needless crimes.

I honestly don't think there's even a discussion to be had about the broader failures of the prison system here. Yes, that is a discussion worth having. But I don't believe it has a place in this regard. The guy was caught red-handed doing some needlessly fucked up shit, one of which seriously threatened the life of another person. The bottom line is that some people actually DO deserve to go to prison, and I believe this guy is one of them.

I'm not defending him or his actions. You know that. But when does the punishment outweigh the crime, or what does the punishment make right about the crime? Criminals don't stop being US Citizens and much less stop being human. So we have to be focused on returning him back to society without that element in him that said it was okay to do what he did. And no I don't have a simple answer for how that is done but what we're doing now and the inhumanity that convicted criminals are treated with certainly doesn't do that. Its not about being "tough on crime" or soft its simply about being smarter. If nothing else. the very least we can demand from our government is to not make the situation worse, which current way the prison system is done certainly does. And if you think that thats impossible then we have nothing more to talk about.

 

[EternallyBored]

"Let's take already criminal people and put them in very bad conditions surrounded only by other criminals. That'll straighten them up!"
- USA logic

Can't really be happy about anyone going to American prison who isn't a murderer sentenced to life. The lifers aren't gonna come out, so while it's bad that their conditions are awful, it is not so dangerous for everyone else. A person like this though, who is clearly intelligent, set to do a five year stint, that is terrifying. Just image what crimes this man will know how to commit after five years among career criminals. Now, just imaging how many more crimes he will be willing to commit after five years in hell.

Our prison system makes criminals worse. Until it is fixed, it will do more harm than good to society to incarcerate criminals, other than lifers. Now, I'm not saying I don't think prison systems are generally necessary, simply that ours is so broken that it is worse than useless.

Where are all you people getting this idea that all the U.S. prisons are the same? Not every prison is a federal supermax where gangbangers, serial killers and big time drug traffickers spend out their life sentences.

Prison's not easy, and there are some prisons in really bad shape in this country, but this guy isn't going to be put in the same complex as lifers and violent offenders. He's likely not going to be sharing a cell or block with big time career criminals, he committed non-violent offenses, computer fraud and identity theft, he's going to be sharing a prison with other non-violent offenders, people in for manslaughter while driving drunk, or people who got caught forging prescriptions for schedule 2 drugs, he's going to be in a minimum security prison with other short term prisoners and minor offenders.

The U.S. prison system has a lot of issues, one of them being imprisoning people for a long time for minor drug charges, but just because some of our prisons are in poor shape and focus on punishment over rehabilitation doesn't mean all of them do, prisons in the U.S. can vary wildly by state.

For example, if he was sent to the prison near where I work in my state (which is the same state he lives in). He would likely not be raped, despite that stereotype most minimum security prisons aren't as rape happy as the max security prisons where the violent offenders end up. There are also usually prison diversion and rehabilitation programs in place, despite the exaggeration and hyperbole, there are still rehabilitation programs in most U.S. prisons.

In minimum security prisons, he will likely be able to take classes online for college credit, many courses are also subsidized by the state, so with a 5 year sentence he could get an AA or bachelor's degree for free before ever being released. With the prison I have experience with, inmates spend the entire afternoon watching t.v., playing board games, and reading in the common areas, someone like him isn't going to be put on perpetual lockdown, he will likely spend his sentence with access to a number of activities, some prisons even grant inmates limited internet access. He will also receive free access to state doctors and psychologists, with group activities designed to help him cope with what brought him there to begin with, as well as classes and seminars specifically designed to aid in finding work and building a career after release.

I know the American prison system has a lot of horror stories surrounding it, but there's no reason to talk like this guy is going into a supermax prison with 23 hour a day lockdown, it's not going to be easy for him, and a felony record will nuke many of his job prospects, but people in this thread seem to have a really warped concept of what prison is like in the U.S.

 

[PunkRex]

I would give him 5 years for that poor attempt at a beard alone.

OH SNAP! Yeah, not helping the whole neck-beard image is he.

OT: A few laps around the yard will be good for the chuckle-fuck. With those skills he could actually make something of himself when he gets out.

 

[Steve the Pocket]

The "neckbeard" phenomenon is a remarkably easy one to explain. It comes from the position that the owner should not be inconvenienced in any way. See, hair on the cheek itches, especially when it's coming in, and once it's long enough not to itch, it's annoying and hot and gets in the way. Thus: shave it. Hair on the neck does not get in the way nearly as much, however, so it can just be trimmed once it reaches the point that it no longer itches. Add to this the fact that it is FAR more difficult to shave (much like that little bush on his upper lip), and the inconvenience-avoidance response kicks in and says "just trim it".

Really? I always assumed it was because they literally can't grow hair on the rest of their face, and they leave what hair they do have out of a misguided belief that it's better than nothing and makes them look older. Like a teenager leaving the pathetic whisps of hair on their upper lip unshaved, only with men who should be old enough to know better.

Frankly, with how damned trigger-happy the regular police force in the 'States tends to be, never mind S.W.A.T. teams that have been known to fuck up and kill completely innocent people after raiding the wrong house, "swatting" should be considered attempted murder, pre-meditated at that.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, but that would require the government to admit that SWAT teams aren't perfect angels who can magically tell if someone's not a dangerous criminal just by glancing at them and would never ever shoot someone who doesn't deserve to die. And good fucking luck getting anyone in any government in America to admit that.

For example, if he was sent to the prison near where I work in my state (which is the same state he lives in). He would likely not be raped, despite that stereotype most minimum security prisons aren't as rape happy as the max security prisons where the violent offenders end up. There are also usually prison diversion and rehabilitation programs in place, despite the exaggeration and hyperbole, there are still rehabilitation programs in most U.S. prisons.

In minimum security prisons, he will likely be able to take classes online for college credit, many courses are also subsidized by the state, so with a 5 year sentence he could get an AA or bachelor's degree for free before ever being released. With the prison I have experience with, inmates spend the entire afternoon watching t.v., playing board games, and reading in the common areas, someone like him isn't going to be put on perpetual lockdown, he will likely spend his sentence with access to a number of activities, some prisons even grant inmates limited internet access. He will also receive free access to state doctors and psychologists, with group activities designed to help him cope with what brought him there to begin with, as well as classes and seminars specifically designed to aid in finding work and building a career after release.

I like the part where you utterly failed to mention what will be done to turn him into a decent human being. Because while being locked in a cell with dangerous psychos 24/7 obviously isn't gonna do the trick, neither will what sounds suspiciously like a five-year paid staycation. Rehabilitation gets a bad rep because people believe that's what it's like, rewarding people for breaking the law by not having to work and still getting to have fun. Please tell me those people aren't right, because I want to believe they're not.

 

[Scarim Coral]

I'm glad they actually doing something about it now. I wonder if that will deter the other swatters from carrying on with it ?(5 years in prison is NOT worth trolling someone in a online game match!)

 

[EternallyBored]

For example, if he was sent to the prison near where I work in my state (which is the same state he lives in). He would likely not be raped, despite that stereotype most minimum security prisons aren't as rape happy as the max security prisons where the violent offenders end up. There are also usually prison diversion and rehabilitation programs in place, despite the exaggeration and hyperbole, there are still rehabilitation programs in most U.S. prisons.

In minimum security prisons, he will likely be able to take classes online for college credit, many courses are also subsidized by the state, so with a 5 year sentence he could get an AA or bachelor's degree for free before ever being released. With the prison I have experience with, inmates spend the entire afternoon watching t.v., playing board games, and reading in the common areas, someone like him isn't going to be put on perpetual lockdown, he will likely spend his sentence with access to a number of activities, some prisons even grant inmates limited internet access. He will also receive free access to state doctors and psychologists, with group activities designed to help him cope with what brought him there to begin with, as well as classes and seminars specifically designed to aid in finding work and building a career after release.

I like the part where you utterly failed to mention what will be done to turn him into a decent human being. Because while being locked in a cell with dangerous psychos 24/7 obviously isn't gonna do the trick, neither will what sounds suspiciously like a five-year paid staycation. Rehabilitation gets a bad rep because people believe that's what it's like, rewarding people for breaking the law by not having to work and still getting to have fun. Please tell me those people aren't right, because I want to believe they're not.

Really? you quoted the relevant line, here let me point it out to you:

He will also receive free access to state doctors and psychologists, with group activities designed to help him cope with what brought him here to begin with, as well as classes and seminars specifically designed to aid in finding work and building a career after release

What exactly do you think rehabilitation is if not therapy targeting the behaviors that caused the original offense, as well as job skills programs to try and build a base to work off of and obtain legal employment after release from prison. That's kind of the whole point of rehabilitation, you give them therapy for mental problems, and classes to teach them how to cope outside of prison.

Rehabilitation is also providing people with things to occupy themselves so that they do not ruminate in isolation. Those activities that make it look like a "staycation" are part of rehabilitation, you help an inmate to develop positive habits and hobbies, rather than just taking them out to a yard and letting them pump iron for 3 hours a day before locking them in a 10 foot cell for the other 21 hours. Give them books to read, games to play with other inmates, even extra rewards for good behavior, these are the first steps to rehabilitation, if you treat an inmate like an animal, then they tend to withdraw and refuse to cooperate with prison staff, rehabilitation can't be forced, you have to convince the inmate that rehabilitation is something they actually want.

When you look at the countries with lower levels of recidivism who focus on rehabilitation, their prisons pretty much do look like college dorms rather than prison cells. For rehabilitation to work you can't rely solely on negative reinforcement, human psychology has a nasty caveat that shows that people who learn something solely through negative reinforcement (punishment and coercion) tend to revert back to old behaviors as soon as the negative reinforcers are removed.

 

[Piorn]

Oh that's nice.
Glad to see the cops are moving with the time, and I hope they can fix him and turn him into a sentient human being.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

"Let's take already criminal people and put them in very bad conditions surrounded only by other criminals. That'll straighten them up!"
- USA logic

Can't really be happy about anyone going to American prison who isn't a murderer sentenced to life. The lifers aren't gonna come out, so while it's bad that their conditions are awful, it is not so dangerous for everyone else. A person like this though, who is clearly intelligent, set to do a five year stint, that is terrifying. Just image what crimes this man will know how to commit after five years among career criminals. Now, just imaging how many more crimes he will be willing to commit after five years in hell.

Our prison system makes criminals worse. Until it is fixed, it will do more harm than good to society to incarcerate criminals, other than lifers. Now, I'm not saying I don't think prison systems are generally necessary, simply that ours is so broken that it is worse than useless.

Where are all you people getting this idea that all the U.S. prisons are the same? Not every prison is a federal supermax where gangbangers, serial killers and big time drug traffickers spend out their life sentences.

Prison's not easy, and there are some prisons in really bad shape in this country, but this guy isn't going to be put in the same complex as lifers and violent offenders. He's likely not going to be sharing a cell or block with big time career criminals, he committed non-violent offenses, computer fraud and identity theft, he's going to be sharing a prison with other non-violent offenders, people in for manslaughter while driving drunk, or people who got caught forging prescriptions for schedule 2 drugs, he's going to be in a minimum security prison with other short term prisoners and minor offenders.

The U.S. prison system has a lot of issues, one of them being imprisoning people for a long time for minor drug charges, but just because some of our prisons are in poor shape and focus on punishment over rehabilitation doesn't mean all of them do, prisons in the U.S. can vary wildly by state.

For example, if he was sent to the prison near where I work in my state (which is the same state he lives in). He would likely not be raped, despite that stereotype most minimum security prisons aren't as rape happy as the max security prisons where the violent offenders end up. There are also usually prison diversion and rehabilitation programs in place, despite the exaggeration and hyperbole, there are still rehabilitation programs in most U.S. prisons.

In minimum security prisons, he will likely be able to take classes online for college credit, many courses are also subsidized by the state, so with a 5 year sentence he could get an AA or bachelor's degree for free before ever being released. With the prison I have experience with, inmates spend the entire afternoon watching t.v., playing board games, and reading in the common areas, someone like him isn't going to be put on perpetual lockdown, he will likely spend his sentence with access to a number of activities, some prisons even grant inmates limited internet access. He will also receive free access to state doctors and psychologists, with group activities designed to help him cope with what brought him there to begin with, as well as classes and seminars specifically designed to aid in finding work and building a career after release.

I know the American prison system has a lot of horror stories surrounding it, but there's no reason to talk like this guy is going into a supermax prison with 23 hour a day lockdown, it's not going to be easy for him, and a felony record will nuke many of his job prospects, but people in this thread seem to have a really warped concept of what prison is like in the U.S.

Or you have an overly optimistic concept of it. You say he will not be in prison with career criminals, yet one of the main problems with the U.S. prison system is that it does put non-violent offenders in with violent offenders. The average potential for criminal earnings for young convicts, such as the one in the OP, increase by $10,000 per year after an extended (multiple year) stay in US prison, whereas the potential for legal earnings plummets. Some US states have adopted more European aspects to their prison systems, but the base emphasis on punishment rather than rehabilitation stays the same in all US prison systems other than perhaps that of the state of New Jersey, which has been moving towards a rehabilitative ethic for at least six years and has made some great strides in that regard (although it's seemingly most successful program had been a rehabilitative reform in parole procuedures rather than quality of prisons).

The prison ethic developed largely in Norway, and applied across most of Europe, that life on the inside should be like that on the outside minus freedom of movement, is the only prison ethic which has been shown by evidence to improve, rather than reduce, the legal prospects of prisoners after release. If a prison system reduces legal prospects after release, all we are doing is maintaining a very expensive program which increases criminal earnings and incentives, with the only benefit being an emotional feeling that "justice was served". Now, I am not calling for an end to prisons. I am not an anarchist. However, we have come to a point in time where our real prison system is in direct contradiction to the prison ethic which statistics suggest work. Perhaps we are moving, slowly, toward an evidence-based prison ethic, but in the meantime we are stuck funding a prison system which is little more than "college for criminals".

 

[Ticklefist]

If this was the 90s the guards would have already wiped that tough guy look off his face.

yeah, because beating people up before they go to court is a great way to conduct law enforcement.

Like I decided the way cops acted back then.

 

[NoX 9]

Woah, what a shit. Would guys like this still find 'swatting' so damn funny if somebody actually got shot because of their stupid pranks?

No sleep will be lost knowing this guy is behind bars.

 

[Therumancer]

Do you think this is some new phenomena for those damn youths today? Because you sound like a grumpy old man. Swatting might be new, but "The youth of today is so much worse than when I was young" has been said for thousands of years.

"Damn those kids, always running around outside, why can't they just stay in the cave and not get eaten by a sabretooth tiger?"

Honestly? Yes I do. My personal opinion is that society has changed over time and become increasingly less strict over a period of time with each generation of parents being more lax with their offspring, especially as religion has played less and less of a role in people's lives in a general sense. Not that I'm some kind of holy roller, I just think it provides a sense of structure especially when it surrounds you via the majority of people. Children, especially teens, were never exactly conformist within society, but all generations feel the need to outdo and be more rebellious than the generations before them. As a result we've seen increasingly permissive parents figuring that they would be more tolerant and understanding to the point where they rebelled, but the new generation of kids feel the need to step over that line. The Baby Boomers with their anti-societal hippy culture, protests, and low-end terrorism stepped waaay over the line compared to other generations and became a tough act to follow, especially as those battles were won and there are few really legitimate causes to justify such behavior. Gen X went pretty far as well, but being the lost generation you don't hear much about us, Gen Y or "Millenials" as a result feel the need to go even crazier. What's more they are raised without any real code, and neither have a lot of the legitimate causes of the boomers, or the justified anger over being "skipped" by society. As a result you see more outright crime (though it was actually there) rebellion through turning to terrorist organizations like ISIS (literally) gang and gangsta activities becoming even worse, and of course shocking acts of casual murder like that Slender Man thing. I'd argue school shootings are a by product of this as geeks have always been whipping boys for the norms who get to vent on them, however what each generation does to the geeks needs to surpass the last, and as a result you have started to see people snap more often since we aren't at the point of the occasional wedgie or putting someone in a locker as the worst of it anymore... simply because previous generations did that so the new ones need to surpass it. As a matter of tradition and because one can't expel most of a school for doing what has been going on for generations the administrations refuse to act, and even paint geeks who rebel too much as the bad guys themselves, with no help from the system and years of torment ahead... out come to the guns.

The point I'm making is that I think each generation REALLY is worse than the last as parents expect the same antics they were up to, which amounts to undeclared position, but the youth wants to go beyond what's permitted, so the higher you raise the tolerance bar, the more the further they will want to jump over it.

Understand that while some argue that crimes are lower (in reality I think it's a matter of less solved and reported cases since as a general rule crimes only get added to the statistics when acknowleged, which means a successful prosecution confirming a crime as opposed to an alleged one took place... combined with increased paranoia) people are also under a "siege" mentality in many cases, which does actually make them harder topics. Fear of the youth and weirdoes means everyone today doesn't just lock their doors, but oftentimes has multiple locks, and even liberals arm themselves because of what a crazy world it is (in part their own fault for acting to let the weirdoes walk the streets). We've gone a long way from "get off my lawn" after all today kids today might not just disrespectfully cross your property as a short cut, or throw eggs at your house, they might beat the crap out of you to see if your carrying cash, kill your pets, or burn your house down for lulz. Not ALL kids, but enough to have an impact and form a trend.

So yeah, each generation complains, but each generation is also right. What's more as time has gone on the Grognards have been proven right, it took generations, but increased permissiveness has lead to some very nightmarish situations.

 

[EternallyBored]

Or you have an overly optimistic concept of it. You say he will not be in prison with career criminals, yet one of the main problems with the U.S. prison system is that it does put non-violent offenders in with violent offenders. The average potential for criminal earnings for young convicts, such as the one in the OP, increase by $10,000 per year after an extended (multiple year) stay in US prison, whereas the potential for legal earnings plummets. Some US states have adopted more European aspects to their prison systems, but the base emphasis on punishment rather than rehabilitation stays the same in all US prison systems other than perhaps that of the state of New Jersey, which has been moving towards a rehabilitative ethic for at least six years and has made some great strides in that regard (although it's seemingly most successful program had been a rehabilitative reform in parole procuedures rather than quality of prisons).

The prison ethic developed largely in Norway, and applied across most of Europe, that life on the inside should be like that on the outside minus freedom of movement, is the only prison ethic which has been shown by evidence to improve, rather than reduce, the legal prospects of prisoners after release. If a prison system reduces legal prospects after release, all we are doing is maintaining a very expensive program which increases criminal earnings and incentives, with the only benefit being an emotional feeling that "justice was served". Now, I am not calling for an end to prisons. I am not an anarchist. However, we have come to a point in time where our real prison system is in direct contradiction to the prison ethic which statistics suggest work. Perhaps we are moving, slowly, toward an evidence-based prison ethic, but in the meantime we are stuck funding a prison system which is little more than "college for criminals".

Or your view is on the pessimistic side, also kind of generalizing all prisons in a system that actually gives a lot of power to individual states to dictate and run policy. The problem with the U.S. prison system is often about over-sentencing and much longer sentences compared to other countries, whilst violent offenders are placed with non-violent ones, this is often less about our societies view on punishing prisoners and more due to prison overcrowding. In this particular case, this guy lives in my state, so unless they extradite him to be tried and imprisoned in the state he was Swatting in, which is unlikely considering he committed crimes in Nevada as well, then he isn't going to be stuck with violent offenders, our minimum security prisons are generally segregated well enough, new Jersey isn't the only state swinging back towards the rehabilitation model as state and federal officials are finally realizing that overcrowding our prisons with minor drug offenders is causing long term costs that can't be supported. The U.S. system has adopted more rehabilitative models in the past, it's why the U.S. prison system is often compared to a pendulum by criminal justice professors, a lot of states tend to swing back and forth from punitive to rehabilitative depending on various political and economic factors.

Also, the Norway system is not applied across most of Europe, it's pretty much only largely applied in the northern Scandinavian countries and partially in Germany. In most European countries, recidivism is actually much closer to the U.S. than it is to Norway. Whilst Norway's recidivism rate is less than half of the U.S., places like England are only usually 5-8% lower than the U.S. and places like Ireland and Scotland regularly rank a couple percentage points higher than the U.S. On the world stage, the U.S. actually has a fairly average recidivism rate, not nearly as good as the Scandinavian countries (and Australia interestingly enough, but the way they track recidivism is weird so its hard to compare their statistics), but well enough to stay within a couple points of a lot of other developed countries.

Our recidivism rate isn't actually considered to be all that abnormal compared to the rest of the world, admittedly this is hard to track as other countries monitor recidivism in different ways, but most studies I've seen usually have the U.S. as about average with the Western world, or only a couple percentage points in difference. What is out of whack, is our massive incarceration rate, and how long we keep people in prison. Also, us and Iran being the only developed countries that still execute juveniles, that's an anomaly too.

There is also the fact that research is being done into how much of Norway's recidivism rate is actually down to its prison system, and how much is helped by its narrow wealth gap, high standard of living, massive social support systems and more homogenous population. I would still agree that adopting more of Norway's system would help the U.S., even if it doesn't drop our rates as low as theirs. More importantly is that we need to stop sentencing so many people to prison for minor drug related crimes so that we don't have to stick non-violent offenders with more serious offenders because we ran out of space.

Good fucking luck convincing Americans to do it though. One of Norway's newer maximum security prisons pays for flat-screen T.V.'s and mini-fridges in every prisoners cell, and we will need to seriously close the wealth gap in the U.S. up before the American public would be willing to get anywhere near Norway's system. Their system is interesting though, the idea essentially revolving around treating them like normal civilians and only really restricting their freedom of movement while trying to foster a sense of family amongst inmates, and subsidizing housing education and employment upon release. The problem here is the the U.S. will need to overhaul its entire social welfare system in order to try the same thing Norway is doing, we can't even do that for innocent impoverished citizens, we aren't going to be doing it for prisoners anytime soon.

 

[keniakittykat]

Going to an Illinois prison? Along with the Chicago gangbangers? Ooh, he's going to get eaten alive in there...

 

[Little Gray]

I am surprised he is only looking at five years. With how trigger happy US police are expecially during swat raids he could have very easily gotten somebody killed.

If this was the 90s the guards would have already wiped that tough guy look off his face.

That still happens fairly regularly in US prisons these days as well. The only difference is that now they turn off the cameras when they do it.

 

[Atmos Duality]

The kid sounded like a right sadist.
I have to wonder if there's any kind of rehabilitation to prescribe that would actually fix that behavior.

Since punishing criminals for committing crimes is apparently passe and barbaric now.
*rolls eyes*

 

[Quellist]

Considering the nature of Swatting i'd add reckless endangerment to the list. Seriously this guy needs to be dealt with harshly (say to the tune of 15 years) to send out a clear message before someone gets killed by a Swatting incident.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

He could end up pleading out for a lesser sentence. Wouldn't be the first time. Then again, this is the first time these charges will be applied. Likely the Judge will hit him with the maximum to set a stern precedent.

 

[Strazdas]

If this was the 90s the guards would have already wiped that tough guy look off his face.

yeah, because beating people up before they go to court is a great way to conduct law enforcement.

Like I decided the way cops acted back then.

from your statement it appeared that you have supported those actions. im sorry if i misinterpreted your post.