PhiMed said:
I love how irrational women state that "slut = a woman who enjoys sex", and "men who fuck whatever moves are invariably praised".
Neither of these statements are true.
High school society is not life. If you convince yourself that it is, you'll be a very sad individual later on. If you're called a slut once you're out of high school, who gives a shit? You can choose to never see that person again if that's what you want.
Being called a slut in high school is still not oppression, though. It's just another name people use to cut people down. There are loads of names people use that are related to things a person cannot help. I'm not going to spend too much time getting upset about a name that is actually related to a person's behavior. If a woman is labelled a slut in high school, it doesn't mean she "enjoys sex". It means she either had sex with more men than was deemed appropriate by the group, or she had sex with someone with a big mouth. That sucks that these actions resulted in ridicule, but perhaps that girl should be a little more selective about who she lets in her pants. Plenty of women "enjoy sex" with a limited number of discrete partners. Suggesting that the only way a woman can enjoy sex is by having sex with numerous loud-mouthed partners strikes me as a little icky, not to mention stupid.
Trust me, guys who attempt to nail anything that moves are only (if ever) praised in their teens. After that, it's perceived as gross, a sign of a lack of self-control, similar to getting blackout drunk at every single party one attends. Additionally, guys have other things which reduce their societal standing. Guys are constantly berated about things that women don't have to worry about, such as backing down from a fight, being physically weak, and getting yelled at by a woman in public. These things aren't signs of shame for women. In fact, they often illicit sympathy from their friends. For men, though, these are sources of fodder for ridicule. That's a double standard, too, but you don't see people carrying a flag for that.
I love the use of 'irrational women' in the first sentence - excellently done, bolstering your argument by trying to belittle an identity, or the idea that women could be upset and being treated in such a manner. Truly, well done.
High school is part of real life - it's a precursor to the real world. As someone who is a graduate student who works as a student advisor for a living, I see behaviors in college students that reflect those in high school. Not only reflect, but magnify the problem - you can try to say this stuff doesn't exist out of high school - I can tell you outright, that's blatantly wrong. It's not only manifested in a college setting too, but in the professional work sphere as well. High school is essentially a microcosm, a small representation of the larger world. Maybe I won't see those high schoolers who called me a slut any more, but you had better believe that if they grow up through high school thinking that behavior is okay, they won't have any responsibility to stop when they advance to college and beyond. Never mind the fact that as a professional, I see these behaviors, including the use of the word slut, in a professional setting far too often - it's not just a 'high school problem'.
There are so many things that rub me the wrong way about this post, I don't even know where to begin. Because I'm short on time, I'm going to pick out this statement:
"It means she either had sex with more men than was deemed appropriate by the group, or she had sex with someone with a big mouth. That sucks that these actions resulted in ridicule, but perhaps that girl should be a little more selective about who she lets in her pants."
Do you not see the inherent unfairness in this statement? It's is the woman's fault. SHE should be more selective, SHE should know better. Men do not get comments like this. You say boys are only glorified for this behavior "only in their teens" but believe me, I have seen experiences to the contrary. It's glorified in media and in our society. It's rampant at the college level (both undergrad and grad, so you're talking an age range of 18-26).
Let's run with your high school example. A girl has sex, once, with a guy. That guy tells a whole group of people. The likelihood that she will be insulted, and he will not, is what I mean by 'oppression.' The institutional mores of our society put her down for engaging in what is at its core an *equal* behavior with him. That is wrong, and, despite others ideas to the contrary, oppressive. She is being made less for engaging in the same behavior as her male counterpart. She is the only one being insulted and having her identity be made less for it.
And I don't like double standards, period. They shouldn't exist. And no where in my post did I imply they should. I think the machoism and bro mentality that exists is wrong, and I think it's unfair that men are expected to be hypermasculine.
BUT let's look at that problem. The hypermasculine problem, the problem where men are expected to not back down, being physically weak, and my favorite example, being yelled at by a woman. What's at the core of all this? Why do men have a problem with these things? Because they are being made less masculine. And what is less masculine? The feminine. You even used it in your example - men being ridiculed for being yelled at by a woman. Essentially, what's being implied is that men should not be yelled at by a woman - that they should be *greater* than a woman.
This is just another perpetuation of an oppressive attitude towards women. It causes men shame to be less-than a woman. Therefore, to be yelled at a woman is to be weak. And weakness is not supposed to be associated with men, it's supposed to be associated with women. Do you not see how that philosophy is oppressive - how it's inherent in our society as well?
I'm sorry, I realize this post is a little long winded, and I'm afraid I've not been as clear as I can be (I'm on a combination of pain-killers plus downright mad at what I'm reading in this topic). I'll clarify further for you if you wish, though perhaps it might be best to PM me for that. I guess my main point for this part of my response is, yes double standards exist, but unfortunately they exist because of sexism and a fear of femininity.
