Teen Arrested for Home-Made "Hot or Not" List on Facebook

[xaszatm]

Wow, a lot of people are not understanding the gravity of this kid's actions. This kid did not just judge people on a "hot or not" list. If you took time to read the second article, you would see that this kid does deserve at least juvenile detention.

A four-page list ranking 50 Oak Park-River Forest High School girls by their physical attributes and alleged promiscuity angered parents and students, who have filed police complaints and called for action from the school's administration.

The list, which was posted on Facebook and then printed and distributed at the high school Friday afternoon, features the names of each girl and graphic references to their alleged sexual behavior and other salacious personal information.

Alright, the list does not contain pictures of said teenagers. However, it does list the names and, as it says, "graphic references to their alleged sexual behavior and other salacious personal information." That right there, is not a "hot or not" list. This is someone who deliberately judged a woman solely for looks and supposed sexual activities. If this was all he did, then expulsion might be just a tad too much for him. However, he didn't stop there.

One OPRF girl interviewed Monday said all of the girls on the list stand out academically and socially.

"A good majority are athletic, beautiful, honors students, talented," she said.

If what the girl said is true, then this douche was targeting women who were either the best in school or were very popular. Still, this isn't too offensive to warrant police attention. This however is clearly starting to pass simple "cyber-bullying" which is already a horrible school offense in its own right

Besides a narrative on each girl, the author's posting features a 10-point ranking on each girl?s facial appearance and 5-point ratings on their various body parts, as well as a notation indicating whether their ?stock? has gone up or down.

The girls were given derogatory nicknames including "New Queen," "The Designated Drunk," and "The Amazing Bisexual." Many references insult the girls by race, ethnicity and sexual orientation.

Alright,this Capital A A-Hole is really pushing it here. Not only is he making derogatory names based off of sexual preferences these girls may or may not have, but is also making racial names a part of this list. Well, kid, why not just go all the way, huh? This kid's expulsion sounds like a very sound thing at this point. But he takes it even further.

After distributing the fliers to other male students Friday afternoon, the author walked to the student center, where he addressed an impromptu gathering, student sources said.

In a loud voice he railed against women, accusing them of "trying to take over the world." He is captured on one cell phone video hollering, "Women are the future, unless we stop them now," as he danced around to a cheering crowd of students.

...yeah folks, this DOES require a police investigation at this point. Making a list ranking women on looks is a douche move but not too serious, making said list based on alleged sexual activities as well as including racial remarks is really pushing it if you do not want to be expelled (whether or not said allegations are true or not is irrelevant), Handing said list to other students and making a speech denouncing women is, quite frankly, sickening. Anyone that does something like this deserves to go to juvenile hall. This is the type of person who desires women's rights to go back a few decades and a screwball waiting for a chance to do real damage (i.e. murder or worse). So no, I do not think that this guy is getting too much attention for a "hot or not" list.

...wow, note to self: do not post messages after taking three essay finals...sorry for the long post, but I just had to say this.

 

[Juventus]

so how come tabloid news writers, fox news anchors, and that racist chruch that hates soldiers and gay people are not in prison?

grow a pair.

 

[zeldagirl]

I'm not in favor of sexual harrassment, but as a man who's spent about 7 years studying law, I don't think this qualifies. In no way is anyone being coerced, bullied into sexual acts, or propsitioned. This is kids being kids, plain and simple.

For the record though, anyone who bashes you for liking Zelda is a moron.

I was under the impression that sexual harassment, in school, is more along the lines of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment_in_education

"Sexual harassment in education is an unwelcome behavior of a sexual nature that interferes with a student?s ability to learn, study, work or participate in school activities. Sexual harassment involves a range of behavior from mild annoyances to sexual assault and rape."

Fuck I knew the definitions of sexual harassment were vague but mild annoyances? Sheesh.

Also I think it's funny that this can be considered harassment even though he didn't interact them at all.

He openly mocked and degraded them for the entire school to see. It's more than a 'mild annoyance,' and it doesn't matter if he physically interacted with them or not, he invoked their identity and degraded it. It falls under the definition of sexual harassment posted above - it's a form of disruptive sexual behavior aimed toward specific targets that will upend their interaction and participation in the school.

 

[Agayek]

...yeah folks, this DOES require a police investigation at this point. Making a list ranking women on looks is a douche move but not too serious, making said list based on alleged sexual activities as well as including racial remarks is really pushing it if you do not want to be expelled (whether or not said allegations are true or not is irrelevant), Handing said list to other students and making a speech denouncing women is, quite frankly, sickening. Anyone that does something like this deserves to go to juvenile hall. This is the type of person who desires women's rights to go back a few decades and a screwball waiting for a chance to do real damage (i.e. murder or worse). So no, I do not think that this guy is getting too much attention for a "hot or not" list.

...wow, note to self: do not post messages after taking three essay finals...sorry for the long post, but I just had to say this.

1) Racial insults are in poor taste, but they are in no way criminal.

2) Making a speech, even if it's in poor taste or about something you disagree with, is also in no way criminal

3) Distributing fliers is, yet again, in no way criminal.

Nothing the kid did was criminal, in any way, shape or form. At absolute worst, he violated some defamation laws (and that would require what he says to not be true), and defamation is a civil offense, you cannot be arrested for it.

He's an immature idiot, and he deserves to be punished, yes. You are 100% correct about that.

The problem is that the judicial system shouldn't be the one punishing him. He violated no laws. The only reason he got arrested is that one or more of the girls has some relation to someone with clout at the police department. This is a gross violation of basic rights and the standards of government.

The school should be free to deal with him however they please, up to and including expulsion, but the police should never have gotten involved.

 

[Thaius]

That kid deserves whatever he gets. Well not anything he could get, obviously some punishments would be extreme, but a while in Juvenile Detention is warranted. That's quite offensive, and I can't imagine it having a good effect on the lives of the girls on the list. That's pretty screwed up.

 

[zeldagirl]

25% of college women are raped? You must have heard wrong because do you have any idea how big a chunk that is?

--In the last count taken in 2007, there were 18,248,128 students in the US that year:
--57% of those were women, making it 10,401,433 female students
--25% of that is 2,600,358
--So that would mean 2,600,358 women were raped just in college alone, and going by what you said, probably more than that
--A smaller percentage of men in college means there would have to be a greater percentage of rapists among them, both single and multiple offenders, to prey upon the greater number of women. That would mean anywhere from 30%-50% of male college students were rapists in 2007.

The FBI reported only 89,000 rape cases NATIONWIDE in 2008...

Have to point out - your statistics are going by cases reported to police. There are groups on college campuses that record statistics of women being raped who don't actually report to the police. Hence, the 1-in-4. Unfortunately, those statistics don't really take into account rapes that go unreported to authorities, but that are still reported to crisis or support centers. That's also not taking into account different definitions of rape. According to the FBI, they only report "forcible" rape. Which means things like date-rape or rape where a woman cannot prove *physical* force are often dismissed. Many college rapes fall into the latter category. Women aren't raped by the man in the dark alleyway, they are raped by men they know, often because either party is under the influence, and the opportunity is there.

I work for a living advising students on a college campus. Every thing I've seen in my experience unfortunately confirms these statistics. :-/

 

[crudus]

I can see some slap on the wrist for "creating a hostile work environment" or whatever is equivalent for a school. Wait, what am I talking about? Schools don't give slaps on the wrist. They blow everything out of proportion and get international attention for idiocy. Seriously, people have better uses of their time than this bullshit. Yes, what he did could be considered harassment if you wanted to do linguistic acrobatics, but it isn't(read: shouldn't be) enough to get a judge interested in anything other than throwing the case out. If the school wanted to take action against the the most I would have allowed them to do was suspend the kid.

Isn't this how Zuckerberg first started Facebook?

Yes, and Bill Gates dropped out of college. These aren't points people want attention brought to when telling inspirational stories.

 

[crimsonshrouds]

so he is a huge douche but when did douche = jail time?

 

[pigmypython]

Every school boy has made a mental list of girls he would love to fuck (or boys for those that swing the other way). He just made the mistake of publicizing it. Way blown out of proportion.

 

[delroland]

Freedom of speech, even repulsive speech. It's outrageous that he was expelled, to say nothing of arrested.

^ This. Defamation is not a crime, and slander is not slander if it is a statement of opinion (ex: yellow journalism). Such matters should be resolved in civil court, not criminal.

The only act he committed that could be grounds for expulsion was the distribution of his list at school, and that is pretty weak grounds for expulsion unless he had been previously disciplined for similar behavior. He's a kid, and kids make mistakes; hence he should be disciplined to the point where he learns from his mistake, not expelled as a knee-jerk reaction to "OMG ANGRY PARENTS!!". Now he's just someone else's problem.

 

[xaszatm]

This is the type of person who desires women's rights to go back a few decades and a screwball waiting for a chance to do real damage (i.e. murder or worse).

That's kind of a stretch don't you think?

That is a fair point. That statement was my frustration from doing finals and the anger of reading this article coming together. I apologize for such a irrational and baseless statement as well as the negligence of my statement.

<spoiler= open for full quote from Agayek>

...yeah folks, this DOES require a police investigation at this point. Making a list ranking women on looks is a douche move but not too serious, making said list based on alleged sexual activities as well as including racial remarks is really pushing it if you do not want to be expelled (whether or not said allegations are true or not is irrelevant), Handing said list to other students and making a speech denouncing women is, quite frankly, sickening. Anyone that does something like this deserves to go to juvenile hall. This is the type of person who desires women's rights to go back a few decades and a screwball waiting for a chance to do real damage (i.e. murder or worse). So no, I do not think that this guy is getting too much attention for a "hot or not" list.

...wow, note to self: do not post messages after taking three essay finals...sorry for the long post, but I just had to say this.

1) Racial insults are in poor taste, but they are in no way criminal.

2) Making a speech, even if it's in poor taste or about something you disagree with, is also in no way criminal

3) Distributing fliers is, yet again, in no way criminal.

Nothing the kid did was criminal, in any way, shape or form. At absolute worst, he violated some defamation laws (and that would require what he says to not be true), and defamation is a civil offense, you cannot be arrested for it.

He's an immature idiot, and he deserves to be punished, yes. You are 100% correct about that.

The problem is that the judicial system shouldn't be the one punishing him. He violated no laws. The only reason he got arrested is that one or more of the girls has some relation to someone with clout at the police department. This is a gross violation of basic rights and the standards of government.

The school should be free to deal with him however they please, up to and including expulsion, but the police should never have gotten involved.

To both Agayek and Father Time, the Illinois Law states that:

"That if any person shall falsely use, utter or publish words, which in their common acceptance, shall amount to charge any person with having been guilty of fornication or adultery, such words so spoken shall be deemed actionable, and he shall be deemed guilty of slander."

(I am not sure how to quote this using the quote tool so I will leave it like this.)

What this kid did here should fall under this category. Even if we take the defense case for people under libel which states:

"In actions for slander or libel, an unproved allegation of the truth of the matter charged shall not be deemed proof of malice, unless the jury, on the whole case, find that such defense was made with malicious intent. And it shall be competent for the defendant to establish the truth of the matter charged by a preponderance of testimony,"

the teenager is still guilty of slander/libel. There are fifty girls on that list. If one teenager lied about one of these teenagers, would that not be slander?

So in the end, Agayek, maybe you are right about him not breaking any criminal law. But he did break this "civil"(?) law and the justice system should do something about it. Like compensation, which is the punishment for slander according to those sources.

I would like to point out now that I am not related to law any which way nor am I a resident of Illinois so my sources are at the bottom of this point. If I made any mistakes in reading the law, then let me know. I am not an expert.

Source: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2051&ChapterID=57 (Illinois Slander and Libel Act)
Source: http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/illinois-defamation-law (Citizen Media Law Project)

Note: I seem to be having trouble with making hyperlinks, any tips?

 

[dietpeachsnapple]

Conflicted as ever. The kid is engaging in a behavior that many adults and "outsiders," agree is inappropriate. I doubt the girls are pleased. I doubt their friends are pleased. I am curious as to the social economics of the situation. There seemed to be a crowd encouraging his behavior (therein a group in support). Naturally there is an opposition group. The group opposed to a non-student gallivanting around the school could have simply been supported by staff, immediately after having the police remove the young man for trespassing (assuming he was there without a pass, and was refusing to vacate the premises).

Alternatively, this appears to have been a problem for months, and the present social pressures seem insufficient to curb the antics. If the acts are considered slander, then add charges of slander on top of the trespassing charges.

Finally, the purpose of stifling the behavior. The young man has an opinion that is disliked by some parties. Normally, social convention would say that opinions are allowed, and if enough people support an opinion, then the opinion may become a folkway. However, the opinion appears to be the objectification of women on a numerical scale, along with sexist undertones: opinions that are considered intolerable by standing convention.

I shall make no conclusions as to how we should be training our youth to be "good people." I shall not say that the opinion should be stifled. I shall not say that the young women are wrong to be offended either. I will say that this young man may reach the professional world and find that his current actions are not so readily accepted as a "right."

 

[Bojiba]

There was a study conducted by Fisher, Cullen, and Turner in 2000 which found that the incidences for rape among women during their college career is one out of four. It is frequently cited in other scholarly literature. Here is a link to a Master's thesis that repeatedly cites the finding of Fisher et al: http://sdsu-dspace.calstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10211.10/547/Nelson_Holly.pdf?sequence=1 In fact, the opening sentence of the first paragraph of this thesis' Abstract states that "t is estimated that one out of four students will experience rape or attempted rape during their years at college." (citing Fisher et al.)

There is also a recent study from the Department of Justice which cites the Fisher et al. study for the same proposition (i.e., one out of four college women will be the victim of completed or attempted rape during their four-year college career): http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/e03021472.pdf

You can also Google "'one out of four' AND college AND rape" and you'll see the same statistic reported by a variety of sources, including college websites warning students of the risk of campus rape.

And your math gets as fuzzy as fuzzy math can get when it assumes that the only class of persons committing campus rape of women is male college students. That's a ridiculous assumption.

It seems to me that the only ones in this entire situation who are assuming that all rapists are men, or that all rape victims are female are the universities themselves.

Honestly, though 1 in 4!? If that statistic were close to true, even over a 4 year span, it would mean that college rape is a crime wave of unprecedented proportions. Assuming that the majority of those assaults were carried out by a relatively small number of people, we must conclude that there are a still significant number of utter monsters prowling America's colleges who manage to remain uncaught year after year. However, if we make the opposite assumption, that the majority of campus sexual assaults are carried out by 1st, 2nd, or 3rd time offenders, it means that roughly 10 to 25 percent of the men are sexual criminals.

It should be mentioned that the kind of attacks that allegedly occur to 25 precent of college women is not the same kind of attack that most of the people on this thread are probably thinking of. I'm not saying at all that that sort of violent sexual assault soesn't happen on campuses, just that it isn't the sort of attack that universities are concerned about. The attacks in question are instances of a girl getting too drunk at a party and being taken advantage of by one or more guys. Guys who are at least as drunk, or near to it, as the girls.

 

[DarthRavanger]

I don't really see any justification for slapping the kid with a disorderly conduct charge. I'm guessing the police just rubber stamped the paperwork because they didn't want to really deal with the parents of the named females. (whose reuptations are probably equivalent to the stuff this guy said about them)

 

[The Long Road]

ATTN World:

Assholes EXIST. There is NOTHING you can do about this. You will NEVER stop them.

Sincerely, Reality


There's a reason most of the western world likes to call itself "free". We can do asshole things like this and not be afraid of police or lawyers or judges when we want to express an opinion, even if it's just a publicity stunt filled with the most distasteful kind of showboating there is. This boy gave girls bad names and spread rumors about them, true or untrue. Who among us here has not been the subject of a nasty rumor or been called very offensive names? I assume most of us have either completed or are in the process of completing high school. Ever wonder why graduating seniors look so happy?

If I were at this school, I certainly wouldn't want to be associated with this boy, but I would equally avoid association with those who are trying to press criminal charges based on what amounts to a rumor mill gone into overdrive. If everyone who spread a nasty rumor were brought in front of a judge, there wouldn't be any teenagers left. Putting anyone, let alone children, into prison for hurting someone's feelings is more absurd and insulting than anything the kid could have written.

Once again, though, I see the knee-jerk feminists lurking in the forums have brought down their mighty Hammer of Feminine Justice and hit themselves right on their Thumb of Reverse Progress. Acting like this is a huge deal and trying to crucify this kid only serves as evidence that women are fragile and need more coddling. As this is not the case, they end up doing far more harm than the writer of this stupid list ever could do. Denounce the material, as it is disgusting and cruel. But trying to put every chauvinist in prison changes feminism from a legitimate equality movement to just another kind of intolerance.