PhiMed said:
You're slightly mis-stating my point. A woman achieves her own status via her sexuality through good judgement and restraint. In other words, predominantly through her own actions. A man achieves status via his sexuality entirely via the choice of others. Namely, women. Thus the power to grant and achieve status through sexuality for both genders lies in the hands of women. Male virgins of a certain age receive just as much ridicule, if not more, than "sluts". Because after all, what sort of man reaches (insert age here) without getting at least one woman to agree to sleep with him?
I apologize for misunderstanding. Now that I do, I have to say - I still disagree. You are given women far too much credit, and placing an agency on them over which they have no control. Your argument that women, in choosing their sexual partner, does not feel empowered in "raising" his social status, so to speak. His social status, based on his sexual partners, is entirely determined by men - MEN deem whether or not his partner is an acceptable one to sleep with. Men rate the women they sleep with as being acceptable or not. Really, that power does not lie with the woman's sexuality. A woman whom a man wants to sleep with has *temporary* power over that individual, but not in a way that gives her real agency - after all, if him sleeping with her will give him social status by making him look cool, he has the most to lose, but he's also the only one to really gain anything. And that's not real empowerment for women - only some women will have that opportunity, but again, that isn't her power.
In a sense, your argument almost works, if the man achieves his status through others - but the 'others' aren't women. They are other men.
(Also, I maintain you misjudge women's power over their own sexual choices - there is not as much control as you would claim there is.)
PhiMed said:
Your notion of men being hoisted upon the shoulders of society for multiple sexual conquests is a bit dated. Similar to the way that drunks used to be perceived as humorous, but are now considered sad, "man whores" are no longer looked upon as venerable, but as humorous charicatures. Please see Barney from "How I Met Your Mother". The portrayal of the "ladies man" as a buffoon is a regular occurrence now, and stands in starks contrast to the relatively aloof sophistication of Samantha from "Sex in the City".
I truthfully would really love to understand why this is dated - all those examples you mentioned are things I see glorified on a day to day basis. I seriously interact with people like this every. Single. Day.
As for Barney, he's a mixture of buffoon and extremely likeable character. But someone like, say, Charlie Sheen and the entire premise of Two-and-a-half men DOES follow the formula of someone who boozes and sleeps around. And it (was) the most popular show on TV, and not because people thought it was a satire...
PhiMed said:
I've never seen a feminist argument against double standards that are inarguably beneficial to women. Child custody rights, rights to alimony, maternity vs paternity leave (there are others, but these come immediately to mind): These are rarely, if ever, brought to the fore by those who claim to be feminists.
I understand that human nature is inherently selfish, but the name gives it away. Feminism. Arguing against the double standards that stand in women's way while remaining silent about the double standards that are to women's benefit is not a fight for equitable treatment. It's just a fight for women. That's okay, but don't try to turn the movement into something that it's not.
You're projecting a lot here. Mainly because it's impossible to make a blanket feminist argument on topics such as child custody rights because those are something that should be evaluated on a case by case basis.
Again, I'm sorry that you perceive feminists as not standing up for double standards that may affect men instead of women, but I know that for many of us, that is not the case. Many acknowledge that sexism against females HURTS MEN TOO. I totally buy into your assertiveness agreement above - men have unfair double standards placed upon them too. But you shouldn't fight WOMEN on those topics - ultimately, that's born out of sexism, and as I've harped already in this topic, I am more than willing to work with male allies to make gender relations better for everyone. I'm sorry, but you seem to hell-bent on representing feminists as out for themselves - while it may be true for the vocal minority, it's not true for the majority of us that work actively for equitable treatment for all.
