The Big Picture: A Disturbance In The Force

[kordan11]

People realise Abrams only kicked off Lost and Fringe and pretty much left both of these series after 1-2 seasons right?

I just have to point it out, because I'm seeing huge posts written by people judging Abrams based on these shows while being totally ignorant of this fact.

 

[cerebus23]

eh thank god its not lucas and not bay.....

abrahms has at lest shown an ability to make an ok movie when he gets a good script. like super 8.

and it still boggles my mind that rlm likes the trek reboot i cant stand it.

still he could be handed a good script as long as he does not start shooting all the action scenes inside breweries it could lest look ok.

 

[Ashley Blalock]

I find that I end up in a lot of geek debates people will say a movie wasn't too bad, the movie was okay, or the movie had the same quality as an old poorly made TV show. We aren't living in an age when good enough is good enough any more. In an age that can give us epic films and studios willing to put huge budgets on films it's a shame to deal with mediocrity.

 

[Aetrion]

I will guess you haven't read the starwars books, played the starwars shooter/RTS/MMO. I think the star wars universe is exactly as expanded and diverse as older mythologies. Do some googling and you will find a timeline and score of characters so immense that it could literally contain ANY movie you would want to make. Sure not everything is exactly cannon but it has spawned an immense amount of content and depth. Or is that not what you meant?

I know about the expanded universe and I have played a lot of the games, but those are all just made to fit what's there. There is no capacity to reimagine the world and put your own spin on it. Even the new Star Trek movie played it really safe, despite a ton of visual upgrades and minor character tweaks.

 

[Kragg]

Holy Boston Accent Batman!

Something must be tweaking a nerve in Bob...can't imagine what...

its been like that for weeks, he should stick to one or the other, it annoys me alot that it slips and slides

 

[Azuaron]

Bob complains that Abrams doesn't have any vision, but I assert that Abrams' vision is obscured by his constraints. If you watch Abrams' TED talk, you'll find that Abrams loves mysteries, and that's why he got into film making, and is also why the first season of Lost was so great.

Abrams loves mysteries but doesn't get it. Look at X-files. Each time you get a mystery and it gets resolved. That is fun because it makes your mind wander. Lost just had mysteries upon mysteries without any resolution. Like listening to the story of a mad man that just tells stuff that pops in his head. Fringe has the same problem. There are no rules in Fringe anything can happen it is all magic. So I don't care about what happens because there is no story. Anything can happen and it means nothing.

Unresolved mysteries aren't necessarily bad, it's just how they're handled. First season Lost (when Abrams was involved)? Great. Fourth season Lost (when Abrams was not involved)? Terrible.

Look at Cloverfield. We didn't get half an hour of expository dialog about where the creature came from, it's mating habits, what it's motivations were, and the biology of the small runner things that dropped off of it. It was just: here is this monstrous thing. Survive. And it worked better without all that extraneous detail than it would have with it, and the fans get to make up interesting stories about what had happened and what it was.

 

[Bazaalmon]

I know I'm jumping in pretty late here, but I saw MI3, Super 8, and Star Trek. Even though I saw them pretty recently, I had to look them up on the internet because I can't for the life of me remember a single thing about them. They were just pretty and explodey, without a whole lot of content to go along with it. I'll probably catch a lot of flak for this, but I feel that Abrams is just a more decent and grown-up version of Michael Bay. Bay specializes in explody terribleness, and Abrams specializes in explodey decentness. His movies aren't bad by any means; There's just no real heart or soul or vision that I could see, just "HEY! Look at this! Cool right?! Give me your money!" I'd rather chance a horrible clusterfuck/amazingly brilliant movie rather than flat-out average. As MovieBob said, He's safe. That's it. Star Wars deserves better.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Disclaimer: I hate JJ Abrams and I'm going to ***** about it and will unconditionally hate the new Star Trek AND Star Wars movies based purely on this notion regardless of their quality.

You can't really talk about the last new Star Trek movie and discuss quality, at least not about good quality.

That last movie showed me that we most likely won't get proper Star Trek movies or television again.

It definitely didn't feel like Abrams was shooting for quality with that last movie. It felt like a name grab cash in. Star Trek fans would come for the name, and they decided to go with young and inexperienced actors to draw in more of the young crowd.

For the vast most part, the new Star Trek was one big action scene with barely any story development. Heck, I was horrified when I left the theater and shocked to the point that I couldn't tell at first what I had watched.

I will hand it to them that they pulled a big somewhat ass-saving maneuver, by making it a reboot in an alternate reality/dimension. There would have been more of a shit-storm if they had made a canon reality story in the style of that movie.

I haven't watched much of any of Abrams shows, but when I heard he had control of that new Star Trek movie, and that everybody was saying how good he was, I thought maybe it would be good. But now after that mockery he made, I really can't trust him with anything sci-fi or anything that is established for that matter. And now I feel sorry for Star Wars, because with Abrams at the helm, it's going to end up sucking harder than Jar-Jar, if that is even possible.

I still think Bob is being too generous in regards to Abram's Star Trek. As a dumb sci-fi/action movie, it's average at best, but as a Star Trek movie it's terrible. Empty is the perfect word to describe it. It felt like a movie masquerading around in a Star Trek skin suit, not unlike the bug in Men in Black.

Totally agree. Of course it felt empty. The new Star Trek movie was just a cash in action flick; the type of movie where the story and the integrity of the subject matter take a back seat to the action scenes and things that the makers think will make their movie hip and cool to the youth.

The sickening thing...the last I heard about the supposed new Star Trek television series, is that they want to make it more like the new movie than the established old series/canon. Gene Roddenberry is rolling in his grave.

 

[Thedutchjelle]

All this complaining about Star Wars all the time >_>
I liked the prequels. Hell, I even saw them before I saw the "sequeks". I doubt it will matter who makes the movie, he or she will always do wrong in the eyes of the fans who've been bashing the same movies for a decade now.

 

[Markunator]

I also notice TV, Movies, Video Games and even books has gotten blah or mediocre lately.

Examples? Because, for instance, when we have TV shows like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, it's hard to argue that TV has gotten mediocre.

 

[Grospoliner]

Bland corporate mediocrity... You realize that pretty much describes comic books to a T now?

 

[Darth_Payn]

Bob... just promise us you're not going to troll this film for the next two years, like you did with Amazing Spider-Man. That kind of behaviour kind of hurts your credibility as a critic.

It is worth remembering that Abrams isn't actually writing Episode VII, he's just on board to direct. Michael Arendt, the guy who wrote Little Miss Sunshine and Toy Story 3, is in charge of the script. Which has got me feeling optimistic about the project (what can I say? i like those movies). Sure, Abrams will have some input, but it's Arendt holding the pen at the end of the day.

Plus, we have absolutely no concrete word on how long Abrams will be involved in either of the franchises; we don't know if he'll be directing Star Trek 3 (or should that be 13 now?), all Paramount have said is that he'll definitely have a producing credit and that's it, like he did with Mission: Impossible 4 (a film which was, through-and-through, Brad Bird's). We don't even know if Abrams has signed on for Episode VIII.

Let's at least wait until Star Trek Into Darkness before we throw this guy under the bus, shall we?

That's the most sensible thing I've read on this whole comment thread. It's just Too Soon To tell.

captcha: Keep More Money
I'll do by not watching many of January's "hits".
Wasn't the purpose of captchas to block adbots? Now the adbots ARE the captchas. This time it was TurboTax.

 

[nondescript]

I want to maintain cautious optimism, but you argue it well, Bob. I tip my hat to you, sir.

 

[Howling Din]

Mr. Moviebobs feelings are clear. Star Wars is walking the tightrope, it can't go back, and its chances of crossing to the other side are slim and slender. He cries out in fear, helpless and powerless. Anybody with attachment with Star wars should feel the same. Then they should just stop tolerating it; the massive rolling snowball of crap that has flattened all peoples, which they're about to bring to bear on Star Wars.
Should we, the retarded mob of sheep just let them do it?

 

[Do4600]

I have trouble seeing how the original Star Wars had any vision.

It was certainly fun, but the biggest achievements I saw were purely aesthetic: the special effects, the dirty sci-fi look. When you look at the actual content of the original Star Wars movies, there is no grand message or unifying idea- there's just a fun way to spend the time in a dark room while eating popcorn.

There's a bit more than that, the story is at least compelling, the character's are strong and well acted, the dialogue is rather well written and there are some powerful moments in it.

That's what vision means, telling a good story.

Pulp Fiction certainly didn't have a grand message or unifying idea, but it's a story told well and that's really what matters.

I feel as Bob does about this. Maybe I shouldn't, but I feel that Star Trek and Star Wars should strive to be as separate in aim as possible. What I think this will do is homogenize both franchises until it's difficult to tell which is which. Director's styles are unique, they are like fingerprints, they can change, but only over long periods of time and most never do.

 

[CaptOfSerenity]

I saw New Hope when I was about 12 or 13. After Revenge of the Sith came out. And you know what? I was so damn bored. Every time I watch it, I ask myself "what the fuck do people like about this movie?" It's an incredibly standard "hero's journey," it's a predictable story, it's got bad acting and bad dialogue, bad editing (one shot is used multiple times), and I never felt like the Empire was a threat. When the stormtroopers can't hit jackshit and the little farm boy is dropping dudes left and right, I feel no suspense. It felt empty to me. As did Abrams' Star Trek, so they're a perfect match!


Empire is excellent, though.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

Is it me or did his actual accent come through there more than usual? must really be upset with this...

 

[MrSundayToSunday]

I share these fears.

 

[Nieroshai]

Ah yes, the part in Top Gun where that one guy I can't remember goes back in time because he accidentally nuked Vietnam... and the last Vietnamese miner swears revenge and blows up New Jersey.

Like it or not, the Star Trek reboot had a lot more subtlety and strength than pretty much anyone gives credit for. I could give a play-by-play of nods to original continuity, the oddly well-played Shatnerness of the lead actor, the way the movie plays with putting the cast of TOS in a TNG (or DS9)-type scenario, the way Kirk gets fleshed out in the alternate timeline where he doesn't have a father to look up to, the shit Spock went through on Vulcan, etc. But Abrams was above all making a TOS Trek movie. An above-average Trek movie at that. 1, 3, and 5 were nowhere near as good as this, and 2 pulled together almost entirely on the charisma of Ricardo Montalban. The rest were okay. It's because as a cinematic piece of entertainment, Star Trek can never be more than okay. It's part of what makes Trek Trek. There's always too much baggage from the series itself, too much focus on garbage technobabble that even infuriates fans. Star Trek is good, it just can't make a good movie. And yet, there were inexplicably 3 good movies! Why? Because the bad movies weren't bad, they just played too much like an episode of the show! And here's where Abrams delivers: he doesn't have or need the show as background, but if you pay attention, the movie is subtly steeped in lore and personality, undiluted Trek with the 60's-ness stripped away.

Also, let's talk about Avengers. And Disney by connection, and Lucas by connection. The Avengers was not given the Whedon treatment, if you will; it didn't become a campy mess that forgot what it was about halfway through. Why? Because Disney and Marvel HAD HIM BY THE BALLS and WOULD NOT LET HIM SCREW UP THEIR FRANCHISE. Disney will do exactly the same here, and Lucas has been included as a consultant, need we forget. He gave away his baby, but he still has visitation rights and isn't going to let its new parents turn it into a monster (prequel rant flame shield up). I repeat: J. J. Abrams isn't the only hand in this! Lucas is still on as a consultant, and Disney has too much stake in this to let anyone screw this up. They hired one of the best to write this thing, Michael Arndt.

You said in the beginning that you hoped you would be proven wrong. I say now it is very likely.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

Well, just because you thought the new film was great doesn't mean that Bob's whole argument has been debunked, and that his fears aren't even well founded.

Secondly, the less Lucas involvement the better as we all know the biggest screw up to happen to Star Wars was George Lucas. And my main hope is the fact that Lawrence Kasdan is on the writing team, he wrote Empire Strikes Back and managed to stave off a lot of Lucas' ideas for it and it became the best Star Wars for it, so hopefully he can make Abrams do things we didn't expect of him, and at least make him hold back on the awful, awful lens flare.