The Big Picture: Batfleck

[Dunesen]

TLR

I've watched Man of Steel, and all I want to say is that I didn't hate it as much as some critics do, but I differently don't love it as much as a lot of other people do. Hopefully I'm not coming across as someone trying to stay on every bodies side. The reason why I don't is because I believe that the character's where just not very consistent, nor was the tone and feel. However, I actually enjoyed the first half of the movie. Really though, I just don't like Zack Schneider. He's just too much of a bro and his movies really show it: 300, Sucker Punch, Watchmen, and Man of Steel. Sure they have great visual effects, but I really don't like the way he treats women in his movies (although admittedly I have not scene 300, yet). His story telling is usually pretty awful too and I think the main reason Man of Steel was half as good as it was was because Christopher Nolan having a hand in its production. Zack did make some changes of course, ones that Nolan didn't quite agree with such as Zod's death scene, but I suppose it didn't get quite as fucked as it could've been. I guess, Superman is mostly a bro fantasy and it could've have done worse than a bro director.

I agree it wasn't the amazing piece of filming that people were expecting. It definitely had it's flaws. But I'm basically with you on the Zack Schneider thing. At this point he is a one trick pony. He uses that same filming technique which makes it look all dreamy in every movie he does... and I'm getting tired of it. One of my biggest complaints about that movie is they used this technique and desaturated the entire movie to a ridiculous extent. At points, it was very very annoying such as with all the crazy action scenes. It also gave it an overall depressing feeling. This did detract from the movie.

Yeah, the look of Man of Steel was a HUGE problem with the movie, bringing down the entire tone.

 

[Jenvas1306]

BUY MY BOOK!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZg8E72xXFA

(I didnt mind yahtzees advertising much, but Bobs is really grinding my nerves if I dont shut his videos fast enough to avoid hearing about it again)

BUY MY BOOK!

 

[Ashley Blalock]

If they let Affleck play Batman like his character in Argo then it might be a breath of fresh air after way too much grim and gritty in the superhero films. I'm kind of ready for a hero who has his problems but who goes out and does the right thing because they are a good person at heart.

Sadly I just don't know that Warner Brothers understands the DC heroes once they jump over into live action so even with a talented actor with lots of range I'm sure they will find a way to take out what's good about a character to make it a mess.

 

[RavenTail]

The Internet proved its worth in making casting decisions when it wept and screamed and protested at the call to cast Heath Ledger as The Joker.

Thank you! This is history repeating itself and no one has learned a damn thing.

 

[viranimus]

Wow...

Alright. Well on Afleck. I honestly think it is a good choice. Yes the "outrage" is moronic. Here is the thing though. Most people are. While there are never shortages of people who "think" they are experts on such things yet have no clue that... well they have no clue.

Ill give an example. With all the angst over Afleck, it seems almost as if it was somewhat appeased by the rumor mill churning out that Bryan Cranston is in consideration for Lex Luthor in said franchise. Now WHY? Cranston is a good actor no question, but why do people actually think this is good? They think 1: Walter White. 2: Bald head. 3:...... 4:...PROFIT! Thats it. They do not want Bryan Cranston as Lex Luthor... they essentially want Walter White as Lex Luthor. Now with that said from an actors standpoint that would practically be career death for Cranston. If he succeeds he becomes forever typecast "IF" he is lucky. However what is muuuuuch more likely is that if it were to come to pass and it did not meet up with fans expectations of Y U NO WALTUR!!! they would turn on him and such a negative response could possibly take an actor with a fair degree of skill and make him seem worse than the plague to a movie studio. That in turn would likely keep him on TV and again "IF" the bad rep would not also kill those opportunities too.

Very few people truly understand what makes a good film and makes it functional because very few people really understand what is in their best interest.

Captcha: Live with purpose
V: Your not the boss of me!

 

[bjj hero]

Defensive? You can tell I have no idea what Im talking about? You cant see how he magically is great at everything because hes rich?

Ive never met a rich policeman and mafia goons tend to be italian stereotypes. You didnt expect each enemy to check every box that terrifies conservative groups did you?

I can't tell whether your called me defensive, or maybe I called you defensive at one point and you asking why. I'm sorry about that but quick literature lesson, you need to be consistent in your writing. You're first question could mean anything, but your second and third question are clearly about you, when your first was probably direct at me.

OT:First of all, you've never met a rich policeman who is not on the take. The policeman who are not corrupt don't get paid by rich people to look the other way, and in the Batman verse that is exactly what they are, until Gordon becomes commissioner. Second, Batman isn't goddamn magic you stupid, twister of words. Bruce Wayne is a human being, and "to Er is Human". That's what separates him from the likes of Wonder Woman and Superman. He makes mistakes, and the consequences are huge. If he was always right and always made the right choice then Jayson Todd wouldn't have died and comeback to destroy Batman's foundation. Bat-girl wouldn't have been shot and crippled. Bruce Wayne is broody because he isn't all powerful, not despite. If he had the powers of Superman, he'd be Superman.

Also, it's very interesting you'd call me a conservative, because I've felt that I've been taking a very Liberal approach to Batman. Most people even call me a hippy.

I mean magic by the way hes an expert in everthing. If youd read my first post hed need a life time of study to master maybe a 5th of the things hes meant to be an expert in. Id asked if you were defensive? I can see no other reason for insults. Its fine if we disagree but we should be able to discuss it like adults without petty jibe. Finally, if it appeared that Id made a judgement on your political leanings then I apologise. I actually said conservative groups, I wont pretend to know what your political beliefs are.

But you are right, Ive not read or seen everything with Batman in. I was more discussing the flavour or overview of Batman.

 

[Korskarn]

Wow... hyperbole much, Moviebob?

MoS and DKR were not "debacles", in any sense of the word. 56% on Rottentomatoes is not "poorly reviewed" - more than 50% of reviewers thought it was good, and it's a mere 4% away from being "certified fresh".

And while you can argue that Batman "buys his way to victory" and was born to a wealthy family, he also works hard to ensure that he maintains his wealth to fund his crimefighting ways - it's not like the money and resources are automatically there. You know what movie explored what happens when he doesn't spend the time to maintain his wealth and resources? The "debacle" Dark Knight Rises.

So, yeah, I think Batfleck is going to be a lot better than the whiney internet kneejerk brigade thinks, but I *still* think that MovieBob's hatred of Rises and Steel blind him to some of the subjective better qualities and the objective strategic outcomes of those movies.

 

[lastjustice]

I'm fine with Ben Afleck playing Batman. It just seems like he's like the Michael Bay or Nickelback of actors that people just love to hate, even though clearly someone is supporting their efforts as they make money. They're just cool to hate. In the end we got a tall good looking guy who can act. I don't see how he'd be somehow worse than Bale's throat cancer batman. If anything Bale set the bar pretty damn low.

I do agree it's hard to be excited about anything coming out of the DC movie universe. Man of Steel was alright, but definitely didn't hit the spot(I jokingly call it Nolan's Transformers since there's way too many parallels between them. Zod is basically Megatron lol.). I enjoyed Green Lantern but it's not without it's problems.(I will say it seemed get the spirit of the comics closest of the recent films.) I didn't care for the Nolan verse as a hole, as there was so much contrivance for a world that wanted to be gritty and realistic then always had some magical tech device every film in the next breath...which is it Nolan you can't have it both ways. Rises was pretty much the emperor has no clothes I've been saying all along, just finally we got a film bad enough people had to be honest with themselves about this whole experiment.

One of my friends, she loves all these gritty crappy films DC has made, but I'd argue she's a fangirl and hardly objective about these movies.(She seems to be trapped in the 90s, and thinks having a super hero with a trench coat and no code name is where it's at. Yes the gritty adventures of Bob Johnson!!!) Most people I know are largely indifferent to what DC has made. The Avengers saga though people generally seem to have a much more positive attitude toward and continue to look forward to it's next installments. Even if there's been a few missteps along the way. I think that says just how out of touch the whole DC experience has been. I'd argue that the DC films besides Green lantern have been pretty much afraid of their source material. It's people pandering to make what they think works while the marvel films have been mostly people making what they love and it shows. DC where is the love?

 

[wetfart]

If the criteria for being batman are White and Big Chin, then shouldn't Bruce Campbell have been playing him since '89?

 

[bjj hero]

snip

Theres no point discussing things with someone whos going to fall back on name calling because our views differ. Clearly Ive raised your hackles for whatever reason.

Im only saying this because Ive heard MB say it? Check:

If the punisher is PG-13 it will be terrible.

The punisher needs to be gritty and nasty. I'd love for it to be done right though. The punisher is one of the best heros ever, screw Batman and his personal class war.

and

Come on, be serious; the most boring hero ever created is Superman. Almost invincible, god-like powers, unrelenting moral code...This is what makes the Batman/Superman dynamic so interesting - one is all-powerful but totally on the straight-and-narrow, the other is only human but willing to break the rules to see justice done. The yin and yang of superheroism.

I agree superman is boooooring. I have different problems with batman. Batman, multimillionaire, Bourgeois, elite of society, comes down from his ivory tower to slum it and beat up then imprison the poor, the mentally ill, the disabled and a selection of ethnic minorities. None of whom ever really stand a chance. Does no one else see a problem with this picture? It's like Ayn Rand's wet dream.

The law doesn't apply to Batman (it did however in the interesting 2000AD crossover). In Gotham he is the most intelligent, influential, richest, athletic... All because he was born wealthy I presume? I could go on. I've noticed he doesn't get involved in white collar crime. Corperations abusing their power, wielding undue influence, stripping assets, sinking pension funds, all of these things his friends probably do to make lives miserable. He'd put foot to ass though if I snatched a purse to feed my family... over $25.

Now the punisher, I get. He's a traumatised Nam vet who should have gone for counselling but instead goes on a one man rampage.

From all the way back in 2010. So carry on with your assumptions, Ill stay away from name calling though. You say I sound stupid because I have a different perspective than you. I think its hard to disagree that if Atlas Shrugged had a Super hero, Batman would be first pick.

Last post for me, this has got off topic and I have better things do than get into hurling insults with someone whos bent out of shape over comic book charecter.

 

[Primus1985]

What the hell is Bob's problem with Batman? For me the fact that Batman is just a regular dude that's always prepared and can take down supers has always been my favorite aspect about him. Did he just compare Bruce Wayne to Mitt F-ing Romney? %$#& that's pretty low, really low. Does Bob forget that Bruce has put millions, perhaps billions into charity over the years? Bruce isn't some slimy corporate raider, hes a suave business man that has built up one of the largest companies on DC Earth. If Bruce met Mitt face to face he'd probably find a way to bankrupt the sleazeball.

Speaking of, yeah he inherited a bunch of money, but he's also worked hard to keep his business running, sometimes not sleeping for days between working all day at the office and all night as Batman. While where talking about money, that's not his biggest asset. Money can buy a lot of things, but it doesn't buy a hard chisled body, the ability to learn and use damn near every Martial art form in the DCU, or a keen detective mind that is also apparently PHD level when it comes to Chemistry, Engineering, criminal phycology, and just about anything else he puts his mind into.

So yeah he has money, but he's also worked extremely hard to get to where he is and was gifted with smarts that make him indispensable in the DCU. Actually with a guy like Affleck I hope he can show his intelligence more than just his brute nature.

Show some respect.





P.S. Screw Brave and the Bold, garbage as far as im concerned, BTAS was the only good Batman series, everything else is pretty much crap that doesn't match the tone at all. The Batman had promise but totally f-ed it up

 

[Hedonist]

I'd just like to mention that Argo was the best film of that year by far and totally deserved that Oscar.

 

[LostTimeLady]

I'm waiting to see what Afleck does with the role. It will be interesting none the less.

I don't know if anyone's batted around this idea for a 'verses' movie but here goes:

What if it turns out to be this: Clark Kent is instructed to investigate reports of the Caped Crusader in Gotham City by Perry White. Using his Superman powers and convinced that Batman is the unstable criminal that he has been portrayed to be he is determined to unmask Batman and use it to forward his career, a move at odds with Clark's usually good and honest personality.
While at a media event Clark and Bruce Wayne meet and discuss the disaster that befell Metropolis and the alien Kal-El. Bruce expresses a respect for Superman and for his desire to keep his civilian identity a secret (Wayne enterprises had been helping the government track Superman to no avail). Bruce invites Clark over to Wayne manor.
When Clark visits Bruce is called out from their meal. Clark uses his x-ray vision and discovers that Bruce is Batman. Realising the only way he could unmask Bruce at this point would be to unmask himself Clark keeps quiet. (Naturally all the while there's some main action plot line about the mob or something that Batman is dealing with and Clark is having to juggle being in Gotham while also keeping up the pretence that Superman hasn't left Metropolis).
Things come to a head when the mob attempt to rob Wayne manor and Clark is forced to reveal himself to Bruce to save Bruce's life. Clark admits he knows Bruce is Batman and together they formulate a plan to clear the name of Batman and take down the mob.
They stage a fight in public leading to Batman being 'captured' and Superman declaring that Batman has promised to mend his ways and help bring down the mob in return for not being unmasked. Commissioner Gordon, who always knew Batman was a force for good although had to go with public opinion, convinces the mayor to agree to the terms. Together Batman and Superman take down the mob.
The end.

If this turns out to be the plot, just remember I called it.
(If anyone who works for Warner Bro.s just read that, fancy me writing *that* script for you?)

 

[scotth266]

Gotta say, I'm more than annoyed here.

Not because of Bob's support of the new Batman casting (I take the position that it could be okay) but because of the way he portrays Batman in this video: as he puts it, Mitt Romney with a leather fetish.

The fuck?

I get that Bob is more than a little to the left sometimes, but his opinion that Batman is made by his wealth is just really disappointing: it smacks of someone who's missed the point, especially when he drops that line about inheritance. Oh sure, Bruce Wayne inherits a lot of money. He also has to watch both of his parents be murdered in front of them by a mugger - a poor guy.

So what does he do? He spends the rest of his life trying to make the world a better place for the little guy - throughout multiple cartoons and comics he's shown building hospitals, apartment complexes, homeless shelters, schools, and his business policies have always been shown to be on the up-and-up. He donates massive amounts of money to charity, and his products are always safe and reliable (quake-proofed Wayne buildings, for instance.) He inherits money, sure, but he also puts in a massive amount of work to keep growing it - not only to support his private war against crime, but a public one based on supporting the community as much as he possibly can. The only reason Gotham isn't a crime-free utopia by now is because DC needs to sell more comic books.

If Bruce Wayne had been born poor, odds are he would have reached the same point where he is now - it just would have taken him longer to do it. That's the kind of character Bruce Wayne is - the determination to be Batman, to continue the fight against crime, would drive him to where he is today regardless of where he started off.

Hearing all that stripped down to "Oh, he's a rich guy who inherited, so fuck him" kind of makes my eyes cross.

 

[Proeliator]

Oh noes! Bob brought out his Boston Accent! You know shits gonna go down.

lol

Though seriously, Ben is a good choice. Dare I say, better than Clooney? Yes, yes indeed.

 

[bafrali]

So I wasn't the only one who thought that TV has treated Batman like a sociaopath whenever it is supposed to be grim except in BTAS. Especially Justice League cartoons exploited it beyond belief. I know It has a truckload of characters to develop but second Batman brought a check to Superman's birthday party, I understood that writers weren't exactly trying for the gold.

 

[gorfias]

I don't know... I'll always miss Kevin Conroy as Batman. Hopefully the DCAU isn't dead.

Also: Mitt Romney with a Doomsday Bunker and a Leather fettish? WHAT!?
well at least now I have a new Skype quote...

I cannot believe he went there!!! But he did!!!

I hope he is right about so much.
1) I loved the dark humor snarky Batman of the Kingdom Come series.
2) I can live with a very, very brief confrontation between Supes and Batman, but that is not enough for a whole movie.
3) Ben Affleck can do this. He has a terrific body of work. And I loved Daredevil.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

I take it you haven't seen the 2011 pilot for the Wonder Woman series that NBC choose not to do...or air (smart move on their part).

For all practical purposes Warner turned Wonder Woman into Batman with a side order of 'Bill of Rights? What's that?' topped off with some Judge Dredd in that thing. There is a difference between feminism and feminazism and Wonder Woman (2011) crossed that line and keep going for another 100 miles.

Superthug does not even _being_ to describe what Wonder Woman is in that thing. After that fiasco I can understand why DC doesn't want to try another go at the character.

I have seen the 2011 pilot, and I have to say that I didn't get a big "feminazi" feeling from it. She was an arrogant, selfish, and borderline psychotic, but she didn't even try using her gender to somehow justify it. I didn't see anything about her that was striving to be empowering or standing up for women. It was like she just lived to hurt people. Watchmen's Rorschach had a cleaner moral code than she did.

 

[Tradjus]

Yeah.. I'm going to go with Bob here.
I really don't see what the issue is. Even if he was the worst actor on the Earth, it wouldn't really matter because Batman is always the least important character in Batman movies. His face will be covered by a latex rubber mask.. so.. emotional projection is kind of impossible. He'll be nothing more than a big walking rubber covered brick that smashes against the villains who pull off all the real acting in these movies.

 

[MaddKossack115]

Ok, I'm totally agreeing with Bob for his two major points: that Ben Afleck isn't as bad a choice as the butt-hurt fanboys think he is (the only reason they're thinking about his dumb and goofy shtick from a decade ago is probably because his last name sounds like the equally dumb and goofy "Aflac" commercials more than anything else), and that the problem with the DC movies of late is the lackluster writing.

However, I still don't think Afleck is gonna be a good choice because his work isn't dark, broody and angsty. If anything, this is gonna completely fuck up the movie in one of two ways.
1) The writers and directors shove the "Psycho Thug Batman" down Afleck's throat, and he flubs spectacularly because he has zero experience with dark and edgy roles.
2) They do a full 360, and play up Afleck's goofiness to the levels of the Adam West "Batman TV show" or the George Clooney "Batman and Robin movie", which, while probably a breath of fresh air from the gritty remake syndrome Hollywood has, will have even MORE legions of butt-hurt fanboys who think the "Dark Knight" has to be... well, dark. (That, or the overall story will be as dark as the "Dark Knight"/"Man of Steel" movies, but Afleck pulls a Nicolas Cage by deliberately playing up the hamminess of his performance to off-set the grimdark idiocy of the premise)

Any way you slice it, I don't think this is gonna be good set-up for the Justice League movie (even by the standards of fanboys immediately thinking it won't be as good as The Avengers), 'cause the Superman vs. Batman for the whole damn flick plot won't give them good reason for either of them to team up with other costumed do-gooders, and if the dark and edgy stuff leaks out to the other members of the League (Christ, can you even TRY to imagine a Wonder Woman movie in the same vein as "The Dark Knight Rises" or "Man of Steel", burying the bright and colorful aspects of her under a tidal wave of cynicism?), it'll just cement DC's image as alienated corporate schemers, who assume that all the cool, angsty kids wear sunglasses and black trenchcoats, and sulk in their rooms with the blinds drawn and the lights turned off.

Oh, and to all the posters getting into a hissy-fit because Batman was called "Mitt Romney with a leather fetish", it wasn't really meant as an insinuation he's the 1% elite, ultra-conservative superhero fighting the 99% poor, cripled, minority supervillains (although both he and Tony Stark are kinda tied with embodying it the most out of currently mainstream superheroes): he's just pointing out how the "crazy-prepared" interpretation of Batman is bullshit because his expensive gadgets do all the work for him, and he's never EVER really taken by surprise, going from being a pretty smart guy to having a level of omniscience that's bullshit for any human being. If they want to show the "crazy-prepared" side, Batman should be completely stripped of his gear, and forced to escape in a way that requires actual, on-the-fly wits, or gets himself completely blindsided by one of the bad guys, and is shown desperately throwing everything he has in a way that shows he's hoping at least one of his gadgets at least slows down the other guy long enough to GTFO.

And, yeah, just don't have "Superman vs. Batman for the whole damn movie", or even "Superman vs. Batman for two thirds of the movie before they fight the actual bad guy in the third act, and still see each other as incompatible opposites during the epilogue" movie. Cause if you're gonna make two founding members of the Justice League at each others throats, with the implication all the other members will be just as hostile to each other throughout the entire Justice League movie, you might as well scrap any plans for it right now.