The Big Picture: Batfleck

[bjj hero]

snip

Theres no point discussing things with someone whos going to fall back on name calling because our views differ. Clearly Ive raised your hackles for whatever reason.

Im only saying this because Ive heard MB say it? Check:

If the punisher is PG-13 it will be terrible.

The punisher needs to be gritty and nasty. I'd love for it to be done right though. The punisher is one of the best heros ever, screw Batman and his personal class war.

and

Come on, be serious; the most boring hero ever created is Superman. Almost invincible, god-like powers, unrelenting moral code...This is what makes the Batman/Superman dynamic so interesting - one is all-powerful but totally on the straight-and-narrow, the other is only human but willing to break the rules to see justice done. The yin and yang of superheroism.

I agree superman is boooooring. I have different problems with batman. Batman, multimillionaire, Bourgeois, elite of society, comes down from his ivory tower to slum it and beat up then imprison the poor, the mentally ill, the disabled and a selection of ethnic minorities. None of whom ever really stand a chance. Does no one else see a problem with this picture? It's like Ayn Rand's wet dream.

The law doesn't apply to Batman (it did however in the interesting 2000AD crossover). In Gotham he is the most intelligent, influential, richest, athletic... All because he was born wealthy I presume? I could go on. I've noticed he doesn't get involved in white collar crime. Corperations abusing their power, wielding undue influence, stripping assets, sinking pension funds, all of these things his friends probably do to make lives miserable. He'd put foot to ass though if I snatched a purse to feed my family... over $25.

Now the punisher, I get. He's a traumatised Nam vet who should have gone for counselling but instead goes on a one man rampage.

From all the way back in 2010. So carry on with your assumptions, Ill stay away from name calling though. You say I sound stupid because I have a different perspective than you. I think its hard to disagree that if Atlas Shrugged had a Super hero, Batman would be first pick.

Last post for me, this has got off topic and I have better things do than get into hurling insults with someone whos bent out of shape over comic book charecter.

 

[Primus1985]

What the hell is Bob's problem with Batman? For me the fact that Batman is just a regular dude that's always prepared and can take down supers has always been my favorite aspect about him. Did he just compare Bruce Wayne to Mitt F-ing Romney? %$#& that's pretty low, really low. Does Bob forget that Bruce has put millions, perhaps billions into charity over the years? Bruce isn't some slimy corporate raider, hes a suave business man that has built up one of the largest companies on DC Earth. If Bruce met Mitt face to face he'd probably find a way to bankrupt the sleazeball.

Speaking of, yeah he inherited a bunch of money, but he's also worked hard to keep his business running, sometimes not sleeping for days between working all day at the office and all night as Batman. While where talking about money, that's not his biggest asset. Money can buy a lot of things, but it doesn't buy a hard chisled body, the ability to learn and use damn near every Martial art form in the DCU, or a keen detective mind that is also apparently PHD level when it comes to Chemistry, Engineering, criminal phycology, and just about anything else he puts his mind into.

So yeah he has money, but he's also worked extremely hard to get to where he is and was gifted with smarts that make him indispensable in the DCU. Actually with a guy like Affleck I hope he can show his intelligence more than just his brute nature.

Show some respect.





P.S. Screw Brave and the Bold, garbage as far as im concerned, BTAS was the only good Batman series, everything else is pretty much crap that doesn't match the tone at all. The Batman had promise but totally f-ed it up

 

[Hedonist]

I'd just like to mention that Argo was the best film of that year by far and totally deserved that Oscar.

 

[LostTimeLady]

I'm waiting to see what Afleck does with the role. It will be interesting none the less.

I don't know if anyone's batted around this idea for a 'verses' movie but here goes:

What if it turns out to be this: Clark Kent is instructed to investigate reports of the Caped Crusader in Gotham City by Perry White. Using his Superman powers and convinced that Batman is the unstable criminal that he has been portrayed to be he is determined to unmask Batman and use it to forward his career, a move at odds with Clark's usually good and honest personality.
While at a media event Clark and Bruce Wayne meet and discuss the disaster that befell Metropolis and the alien Kal-El. Bruce expresses a respect for Superman and for his desire to keep his civilian identity a secret (Wayne enterprises had been helping the government track Superman to no avail). Bruce invites Clark over to Wayne manor.
When Clark visits Bruce is called out from their meal. Clark uses his x-ray vision and discovers that Bruce is Batman. Realising the only way he could unmask Bruce at this point would be to unmask himself Clark keeps quiet. (Naturally all the while there's some main action plot line about the mob or something that Batman is dealing with and Clark is having to juggle being in Gotham while also keeping up the pretence that Superman hasn't left Metropolis).
Things come to a head when the mob attempt to rob Wayne manor and Clark is forced to reveal himself to Bruce to save Bruce's life. Clark admits he knows Bruce is Batman and together they formulate a plan to clear the name of Batman and take down the mob.
They stage a fight in public leading to Batman being 'captured' and Superman declaring that Batman has promised to mend his ways and help bring down the mob in return for not being unmasked. Commissioner Gordon, who always knew Batman was a force for good although had to go with public opinion, convinces the mayor to agree to the terms. Together Batman and Superman take down the mob.
The end.

If this turns out to be the plot, just remember I called it.
(If anyone who works for Warner Bro.s just read that, fancy me writing *that* script for you?)

 

[scotth266]

Gotta say, I'm more than annoyed here.

Not because of Bob's support of the new Batman casting (I take the position that it could be okay) but because of the way he portrays Batman in this video: as he puts it, Mitt Romney with a leather fetish.

The fuck?

I get that Bob is more than a little to the left sometimes, but his opinion that Batman is made by his wealth is just really disappointing: it smacks of someone who's missed the point, especially when he drops that line about inheritance. Oh sure, Bruce Wayne inherits a lot of money. He also has to watch both of his parents be murdered in front of them by a mugger - a poor guy.

So what does he do? He spends the rest of his life trying to make the world a better place for the little guy - throughout multiple cartoons and comics he's shown building hospitals, apartment complexes, homeless shelters, schools, and his business policies have always been shown to be on the up-and-up. He donates massive amounts of money to charity, and his products are always safe and reliable (quake-proofed Wayne buildings, for instance.) He inherits money, sure, but he also puts in a massive amount of work to keep growing it - not only to support his private war against crime, but a public one based on supporting the community as much as he possibly can. The only reason Gotham isn't a crime-free utopia by now is because DC needs to sell more comic books.

If Bruce Wayne had been born poor, odds are he would have reached the same point where he is now - it just would have taken him longer to do it. That's the kind of character Bruce Wayne is - the determination to be Batman, to continue the fight against crime, would drive him to where he is today regardless of where he started off.

Hearing all that stripped down to "Oh, he's a rich guy who inherited, so fuck him" kind of makes my eyes cross.

 

[Proeliator]

Oh noes! Bob brought out his Boston Accent! You know shits gonna go down.

lol

Though seriously, Ben is a good choice. Dare I say, better than Clooney? Yes, yes indeed.

 

[bafrali]

So I wasn't the only one who thought that TV has treated Batman like a sociaopath whenever it is supposed to be grim except in BTAS. Especially Justice League cartoons exploited it beyond belief. I know It has a truckload of characters to develop but second Batman brought a check to Superman's birthday party, I understood that writers weren't exactly trying for the gold.

 

[gorfias]

I don't know... I'll always miss Kevin Conroy as Batman. Hopefully the DCAU isn't dead.

Also: Mitt Romney with a Doomsday Bunker and a Leather fettish? WHAT!?
well at least now I have a new Skype quote...

I cannot believe he went there!!! But he did!!!

I hope he is right about so much.
1) I loved the dark humor snarky Batman of the Kingdom Come series.
2) I can live with a very, very brief confrontation between Supes and Batman, but that is not enough for a whole movie.
3) Ben Affleck can do this. He has a terrific body of work. And I loved Daredevil.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

I take it you haven't seen the 2011 pilot for the Wonder Woman series that NBC choose not to do...or air (smart move on their part).

For all practical purposes Warner turned Wonder Woman into Batman with a side order of 'Bill of Rights? What's that?' topped off with some Judge Dredd in that thing. There is a difference between feminism and feminazism and Wonder Woman (2011) crossed that line and keep going for another 100 miles.

Superthug does not even _being_ to describe what Wonder Woman is in that thing. After that fiasco I can understand why DC doesn't want to try another go at the character.

I have seen the 2011 pilot, and I have to say that I didn't get a big "feminazi" feeling from it. She was an arrogant, selfish, and borderline psychotic, but she didn't even try using her gender to somehow justify it. I didn't see anything about her that was striving to be empowering or standing up for women. It was like she just lived to hurt people. Watchmen's Rorschach had a cleaner moral code than she did.

 

[Tradjus]

Yeah.. I'm going to go with Bob here.
I really don't see what the issue is. Even if he was the worst actor on the Earth, it wouldn't really matter because Batman is always the least important character in Batman movies. His face will be covered by a latex rubber mask.. so.. emotional projection is kind of impossible. He'll be nothing more than a big walking rubber covered brick that smashes against the villains who pull off all the real acting in these movies.

 

[MaddKossack115]

Ok, I'm totally agreeing with Bob for his two major points: that Ben Afleck isn't as bad a choice as the butt-hurt fanboys think he is (the only reason they're thinking about his dumb and goofy shtick from a decade ago is probably because his last name sounds like the equally dumb and goofy "Aflac" commercials more than anything else), and that the problem with the DC movies of late is the lackluster writing.

However, I still don't think Afleck is gonna be a good choice because his work isn't dark, broody and angsty. If anything, this is gonna completely fuck up the movie in one of two ways.
1) The writers and directors shove the "Psycho Thug Batman" down Afleck's throat, and he flubs spectacularly because he has zero experience with dark and edgy roles.
2) They do a full 360, and play up Afleck's goofiness to the levels of the Adam West "Batman TV show" or the George Clooney "Batman and Robin movie", which, while probably a breath of fresh air from the gritty remake syndrome Hollywood has, will have even MORE legions of butt-hurt fanboys who think the "Dark Knight" has to be... well, dark. (That, or the overall story will be as dark as the "Dark Knight"/"Man of Steel" movies, but Afleck pulls a Nicolas Cage by deliberately playing up the hamminess of his performance to off-set the grimdark idiocy of the premise)

Any way you slice it, I don't think this is gonna be good set-up for the Justice League movie (even by the standards of fanboys immediately thinking it won't be as good as The Avengers), 'cause the Superman vs. Batman for the whole damn flick plot won't give them good reason for either of them to team up with other costumed do-gooders, and if the dark and edgy stuff leaks out to the other members of the League (Christ, can you even TRY to imagine a Wonder Woman movie in the same vein as "The Dark Knight Rises" or "Man of Steel", burying the bright and colorful aspects of her under a tidal wave of cynicism?), it'll just cement DC's image as alienated corporate schemers, who assume that all the cool, angsty kids wear sunglasses and black trenchcoats, and sulk in their rooms with the blinds drawn and the lights turned off.

Oh, and to all the posters getting into a hissy-fit because Batman was called "Mitt Romney with a leather fetish", it wasn't really meant as an insinuation he's the 1% elite, ultra-conservative superhero fighting the 99% poor, cripled, minority supervillains (although both he and Tony Stark are kinda tied with embodying it the most out of currently mainstream superheroes): he's just pointing out how the "crazy-prepared" interpretation of Batman is bullshit because his expensive gadgets do all the work for him, and he's never EVER really taken by surprise, going from being a pretty smart guy to having a level of omniscience that's bullshit for any human being. If they want to show the "crazy-prepared" side, Batman should be completely stripped of his gear, and forced to escape in a way that requires actual, on-the-fly wits, or gets himself completely blindsided by one of the bad guys, and is shown desperately throwing everything he has in a way that shows he's hoping at least one of his gadgets at least slows down the other guy long enough to GTFO.

And, yeah, just don't have "Superman vs. Batman for the whole damn movie", or even "Superman vs. Batman for two thirds of the movie before they fight the actual bad guy in the third act, and still see each other as incompatible opposites during the epilogue" movie. Cause if you're gonna make two founding members of the Justice League at each others throats, with the implication all the other members will be just as hostile to each other throughout the entire Justice League movie, you might as well scrap any plans for it right now.

 

[endtherapture]

Of course, the main problem , as Bob has already pointed out, is that DC/WB need to quit being so damn embarrassed to do comic book movies and just let them be comic book movies. Working out fine for Marvel/Disney.

The Marvel movies aren't afraid to have goddamn PERSONALITY to them. They seem like REAL people that you know and can relate to know/actual be despite their powers (because it's NOT ALL ABOUT THE POWERS. Half the commenters here fail to grasp that concept).

They're FAR more realistic and act more like human beings than any of these self-serious pretentious wankers we've been getting from DC as of late, that have all been in this annoying gloom-and-doom aesthetic that sucks the life out of anything interesting to the tune of angsty-wangsty First Year Philosophy students. If you're easily impressed by that kind of Halo/Gears Of War-esque level of shallow pedantry, then the Dark Knight movies are for you. But for people like me, it's really getting fucking annoying.

The Marvel movies are glorified comedies.

DC movies are going for a more gritty take on things.

I don't know why we can't have both?

 

[MB202]

I honestly don't get the reaction to Ben Affleck as Batman. I thought it was a good thing? What has Ben done to deserve this kind of "outrage"... Actually, remember when Michael Keaton was cast as Batman? I recall a similar outrage from that... and yet he turned out to be the best live-action Batman of them all.

 

[Pyramid Head]

I want to disagree with Bob. I want to say he's overrating Affleck. But...
...son of a fucking *****, he's right. Affleck was great in Argo, he does have a good head on him, and he could be a good idea after Frank Miller destroyed Batman with his Sin City bullshit. I like to think of Argo as Ben learning from Michael Bay's mistakes, and maybe the perspective he gained in the bad Daredevil movie could help him fix Miller and Mark Steven Johnson's mistakes.

 

[Cpt. Slow]

Can Matt Damon be Robin?

Sorry, Matt Damon is still f**king Sarah Silverman. Yes, after all this time.

And Ben Affleck as a director I give two thumbs up. But he won't be able to pull of the Batman.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Dear Bob,
Ben Affleck isn't a very good actor.
It doesn't matter if he's turned out to be a good director/writer/producer.
And he's not a very good actor.