The Big Picture: Continanity

[magnuslion]

Bob,

thanks for explaining that, was not a huge fan of any DC comic characters as a kid except Green Lantern. I never really understood all the fragmented stories. you made sense of that in five minutes flat. good onya.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

One could argue that it's the very fact that the continuity is so convoluted that makes DC characters so outstanding. It's not so important to keep track of all the minutia of a character as the minutia are consistent to what the character represents. It's the adaptive nature of the DC universe that brings it to the 'old school' comic readers' table - they embrace the discrepancies in continuity by allowing for the expansion and contraction of an infinite number of universes.

I've come to expect a new Crisis every so often, because it provides the freedom to explore topics that would otherwise be impossible (like having Superman raised in Soviet Russia), without just saying "it never really happened." In these cases, DC seems to be saying "no matter what happens, Batman is still the goddamn Batman" - and in doing so provides depth to the classic versions of their characters as well as the updated ones.

Marvel had two universes last I checked (stopped reading shortly after the split), and instead of expanding the depth of the characters, it seems to have cut each one in half. This isn't to say I don't like the Ultimate universe, just that Marvel seemed to sacrifice the 'soul' of some characters to appeal to a new audience.

 

[2ndblackjedi]

I liked the cowboy Batman more... >.>

 

[Kenjitsuka]

Wow, Bob, I had no idea!
Pirate Batman XD

 

[The Random One]

I'm glad there's at least one comic book fan who can see what we non-fans see when we look at these clusterfucks. I hate continuity with a passion. People give all sorts of weird reasons for liking mangas over American comics, but mine is much simpler: to know the entirety of the story of the Fullmetal Alchemist series, I need only read the Fullmetal Alchemist series. To learn the entire history of (say) Spiderman I'd need to read tens of different series, some spanning back to the character creation, and some being actually about some other character entirely. (And even though most of my comic reading is manga if you ask what my favourite series are I'll name Sandman and Transmetropolitan. Which are also a single series. Surprise surprise.)

Frankly I think the coherent universe thing of the two major publishers does more harm than good.

And incidentally I realized games might suffer the same fate. They don't suffer from this kind of... story incest, but suffer from the same thing in gameplay. A new Medal of Honor game expects you to use the grenade throwing you learned in Call of Duty and the cover combat you learned in Halo and the sniping you learned in, um, Sniper Ghost Warrior I guess. That's just as bad as the discovery that the big bad of this intriguing plot in this comic book is, dum dum dum, THIS CHARACTER YOU'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE BUT THIS FOOTNOTE INDICATES HE WAS BANISHED INTO EARTH-42 OR SOMETHING IN THE ISSUE 78 (JANUARY 1986) OF THE ORIGINAL SERIES!

 

[Felix Arturo Macias Ibarra]

Awesome episode,but wheres my japan's new law on anime manga and video games?

 

[Deacon Cole]

Actually, wasn't there resistance to Crisis of Infinite Earths since it was first published as the creative teams on various books didn't want to have to deal with a company-wide reboot, so it never happened properly?

I dunno. I had been told that's what happened so these later crises are still dealing with the mess over twenty years later.

Personally, I find I like comics from a very narrow date from the late seventies to the early 80's. I'm sure most of that is nostalgia. But there was something to the art styles at the time that I prefer to the crap out today.

It's time for my medicine.

 

[Unesh52]

FUCKING PIRATE BATMAN

Oh, sorry... anyway, I keep thinking I want to get into comics, but then Bob comes out and starts talking about all this convoluted bullshit and I just... can't be asked.

 

[Pumpkinmancer]

Nice episode. These sort of geek culture things are what I like to see from Bob. I am less and less inclined to read the comics. I'll stick with cartoons and movies, thanks.

 

[TheTinyMan]

I understand comics so much less than I ever did...
...although if I was at least visual AND patient enough for print comics, I would probably have been ALL OVER these things my whole life. Oh, well. As it is, I've grown up being unable to tell what's going on in a still image (or an animation half the time)

 

[Hyperguyver]

Yeah, well at least they didn't have zombies running around....oh wait. Damn!

Seriously though, this is exactly why I compare Marvel and DC comics to Soap Operas. Every few years its new writers doing new (and sometimes old) things with old characters. So they have to re-write continuity again just so they can tell their story with the same characters, and have it so new fans can get in on the action and be caught up with in a few issues.

Pick a beginning, then pick the ending, then figure out how to link the two. Otherwise you turn into Lost and look like you have no idea what you are doing.

 

[MB202]

Pirate Batman made my day!

I'm pretty damn sure I'm a geek now, because while I don't obsess over comic book continuity, I do obsess over (some) game continuity. I remember having a huge hissy fit when Nintendo didn't properly follow up Super Mario Galaxy in Super Mario Galaxy 2, acting as though none of it ever happened. Which, if you've seen the ending of Super Mario Galaxy, you could probably make a guess about why or how that happened, but it's not like Nintendo's actually acknowledging it.

But I digress, neat video!

You're complaining about non-continuity in a Mario game?

I know, depressing, isn't it? I got over it pretty quickly, but originally I was pretty upset.

 

[Therumancer]

Bat....pirate? W. T. F....

The idea being that the idea of a vengeance seeking guy putting on a mask to avenge wrongs outside of the law is fairly universal. The "Batman" concept can be applied to a lot of differant things. We've also seen things where you had a world of magic where it's the origin for all the heroes powers, except there is Batman who is the only guy who won't use magic, and uses science instead (sort of like how he won't use guns in the regular DC universe). We've also had "Gotham By Gaslight" set in the 1890s, and a 4 issue alternate universe called "Haunted Gotham" where Gotham is where all the demons, monsters, ghosts, and other nasty things live and are allowed to prey on people due to a deal with the rest of the goverment. The city itself being sealed off from the rest of the country. Batman's parents being part of a monster-fighting resistance cell, that groom him to be the ultimate monster killer before predicably croaking, various "big" creatures in the city are monsters themed after popular Batman villains....

Batman was invented in like the 1930s, and truthfully it's not surprising that he's been through more than just about any other character ever created.

Personally I always kind of thought that Batman was probably inspired by "The Count Of Monte Cristo", which is about a guy who is framed, escapes from prison, recovers a treasure hidden by another prisoner, and then trains himself into a killing machine and sets about getting revenge on the people that set him up. It's just that Batman, being designed for continuous story telling has a more nebulous enemy (crime in general) as opposed to an objective that can be wrapped up within a single story.

 

[PunkRex]

This is why I read manga... I mean at least they tried right and its all fun I suppose.

Still what few inderpendent DC and Marvel I have seen I have enjoyed. Justice Leauge on TV (the sexual banter between Batman and Wounder Women is really cute) and X-Men Evolution (Gambit you swarve mutha fudger) were both AWESOME!!!

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

Woah, comics are weird!

 

[NaramSuen]

Excellent video. I have had friends attempt to explain all this to me, but your video was the clearest explanation I have ever heard. This is also pretty much why I stick to trade paperbacks that collect an entire complete story or comics published under the Vertigo imprint.

Keep it up Bob!