The Big Picture: Continanity
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I've wanted to get into comics for a while now. I love Iron Man. I loved his since I was a little kid and he had a cartoon on my television that was shown every day. I loved what happened in the movies. I went into a comic book store and found that at current, he is staring in what appears to be about three-four different ongoing comics.thejboy88 said:
That put me off until they start coming out "in trade" which is a term I had to have explained to me.
Bob, this is a really great video about DC Comics continuity, but from your title, I expected you to actually wrestle with what makes continuity over multiple mediums so challenging and suggest ways around these issues.
Could you please make your titles more representative of your videos?
Could you please make your titles more representative of your videos?
I think the point is that it's okay to have each story have their own separate space without having to be a part of everything else. It's not that there are so many different alternate tellings, it's that they try to cram them all in the same setting and inject continuity where it doesn't have or need to be. It's not all that hard to follow, it's that meshing and twisting everything around like that every time they want to do a change waters down each individual story. And takes what could be somewhat relatable to real life (super powered man plays hero in an otherwise average city) and blows it on a scope that's entirely unrelatable (alternate reality super powered man affects the multiverse by punching time). That inability to relate is what makes it hard to get into, as Bob said, 'it's weird.'Falseprophet said:
I find this superhero-comic Continuity similar to EA releasing yet-another-sports-game-putyouryearhere.
Why not start new series?
Constant rebooting is a sign that stories are unrelated to superheroes ? with some exceptions any of these new stories could be stretched over _any_ character. And yet it's always good old Captain Beefheart or Broomman to be rebooted to fit into plot.
You need balls to end something and start something new.
Why not start new series?
Constant rebooting is a sign that stories are unrelated to superheroes ? with some exceptions any of these new stories could be stretched over _any_ character. And yet it's always good old Captain Beefheart or Broomman to be rebooted to fit into plot.
You need balls to end something and start something new.
The big irony is that the multiverse is way of forcing continuity in as an excuse for writers to write stories without any regard for continuity. I think if people want to see Batman as a pirate, then a writer shouldn't have to make excuses and just write it. Different artists putting their own spin on well known characters makes for much more interesting reading.
There's no reason to treat these fictional characters like they have real lives; they're symbols whose stories can be told in any setting appropriate to that story. I'm more than a casual reader, but I don't give a rat's ass about coninuity. It's a philosophy that also makes it a lot easier to live in a world where Hollywood shits all over awesome characters. Merc with a mouth has no mouth? Kiss my ass.... with your stupid non-mouth thing.
There's no reason to treat these fictional characters like they have real lives; they're symbols whose stories can be told in any setting appropriate to that story. I'm more than a casual reader, but I don't give a rat's ass about coninuity. It's a philosophy that also makes it a lot easier to live in a world where Hollywood shits all over awesome characters. Merc with a mouth has no mouth? Kiss my ass.... with your stupid non-mouth thing.
It's all down to that word canon, isn't it. God I hate that word and everything it stands for. (With the exception of the weapon usage obviously.)
Somebody creates an interesting story idea that gets fans who, as Bob rightly pointed out, become future creators, who have outlandish ideas that though have no tangible connection to the original concept and due to their popularity in the industry are allowed to insinuate their dross into the history of the character and sully it forever, because it is now CANON.
Why couldn't we have the Watcher turn up in X-Men after Morrison left and say 'Yeah, Cassandra Nova was bollocks, lets all forget it ever happened.' Then maybe better writers wouldn't have to tip toe around the minefield of shite that self indulgent 'writers' leave behind.
I didn't intend this to be an attack on Morrison (as there are others) but I do see him as the Michael Bay of the comic world.
Somebody creates an interesting story idea that gets fans who, as Bob rightly pointed out, become future creators, who have outlandish ideas that though have no tangible connection to the original concept and due to their popularity in the industry are allowed to insinuate their dross into the history of the character and sully it forever, because it is now CANON.
Why couldn't we have the Watcher turn up in X-Men after Morrison left and say 'Yeah, Cassandra Nova was bollocks, lets all forget it ever happened.' Then maybe better writers wouldn't have to tip toe around the minefield of shite that self indulgent 'writers' leave behind.
I didn't intend this to be an attack on Morrison (as there are others) but I do see him as the Michael Bay of the comic world.
The biggest underlying answer to your question is that the current media setup wasn't designed to end. Ever. They will continue until they can no longer. The concept of starting a story with new characters and world isn't hard, but ending it and not going back? To the comic publishers/nerds, this is simply unthinkable. So even after the story has been bled dry, the publishers got to keep going for the next issue because that's what is demanded from them; no matter how much they shouldn't. And frankly you can't blame them because that's what their audience keeps asking for.Sgt. Sykes said:
I want to read these now...
It's like DC has so many continuity problems, the continutity universe characters are mocking the continuity of the established universe...
It's like DC has so many continuity problems, the continutity universe characters are mocking the continuity of the established universe...
If I had a few several billion spare I'd buy both Marvel and DC and merge the universes together and just wipe the slate clean. Starting again with maybe a few alterations like Robin is Batman's little baby brother or something. Also, I'd throw in some of the Amalgam comic stuff they did like Supersoldier and Spider-boy. I really liked them.
Addition to last post: Marvel has a series of non-continuity comics that are REALLY worth checking out, which includes Spider-Man: Reign, Silver Surfer: Requiem, and Sub-Mariner: The Depths. I'm not sure if the series has it's own title (it falls under Marvel Knights) but you can recognize the covers by white vertical lines about an inch from either side. They wholly reinforce my point made earlier.
This is why I want to but have never gotten into comics. The stories sound so awesome but with all these continuities going on and intertwining with each other, how can I pick up a copy of the latest Superman and expect to unerstand wtf is going on?
How can we have a discussion on Continuity without mentioning Marvel's Ultimate reboot? That was one of the gutsiest moves a publisher has ever done and I think they did a great job overall.
I'm with Bob though - all this infinite multiverse stuff really made the world of comics impenetrable for me. I would dip my toes in by reading my brother's stuff for an arc or two, then immediately head for the hills if the word "clone" was mentioned.
I'm with Bob though - all this infinite multiverse stuff really made the world of comics impenetrable for me. I would dip my toes in by reading my brother's stuff for an arc or two, then immediately head for the hills if the word "clone" was mentioned.
My advice is don't worry about it. Just start reading and eventually your ignorance and knowledge will level out.LightspeedJack said:
Over here in Finland such classics as X-Men, Spiderman and Marvel (everyone else) got exactly one monthly magazine. Well, it wasn't actually monthly in the 1980s, but it became that way later on. Anyway, the stuff that got first harvested from a multitude of Spiderman, X-Men and what-have-you Marvel comics were then chosen to represent a single continuity. And it worked out wonderfully! Although I missed out on about 75 - 80% of publications from Spiderman and X-Men (not to mention Wolverine, Daredevil, Fantastic Four and many others, who only got short runs in the Marvel comic) I never experienced a continuity problem.
Well, up until the mid-90s when X-Men did a whole time travel thing to Cairo, Xavier got killed by Legion, Bishop got ripped into an alternate reality (with brain damage) and the whole thing went ga-ga-crazy. Let's just say that I stopped reading Marvel comics right there and then. I like most of the movies with a fondness of about a decade of carefully edited translations.
Well, up until the mid-90s when X-Men did a whole time travel thing to Cairo, Xavier got killed by Legion, Bishop got ripped into an alternate reality (with brain damage) and the whole thing went ga-ga-crazy. Let's just say that I stopped reading Marvel comics right there and then. I like most of the movies with a fondness of about a decade of carefully edited translations.
As someone who has literally never read a single comic book, this episode blew my mind. Is this 4 real? Seriously wtf....
