The Big Picture: Correctitude

[cerebus23]

little perplexed why you dug a picture of william f buckley who was by all accounts the most reasonable challenging political thinker of this century and was widely reguarded by his friends and enemies as a great guy and greater debater. what was the relevance of showing him with the agrro non pc hate wing?

seems this article was as much a rant about the hyper right, in some cases sure. but most cases stabbing the right via the pc leftists that attack everything they say and take stuff out of context even "jokes" used sarcastically or to make a point and omg the left goes nuts.

Words mean little and they mean less and less in an age where people can speak anyway they want in a public setting and do whatever they want out of the public light. you can find many instances on the right of people talking good moral values and etc and demonstrating anything but good moral values. you can go up on the left and find many instances of people talking about standing up for the underdog or common man or women and doing anything but that in their dealings and personal lives.

try to be a bit more even handed bob half the people you seem to be attacking ate not hate mongers they are sensationalist talk show hosts that are after the same thing you are ratings. and have a certain demographic that responds to certain themes.

and its not like the other side of the isle of isale is equally or more hateful, like that ever so nice incident when tony snow got cancer bloggers on huffington post rejoyced and hoped he would die soon and very painfully. you can dig up the most heinous hateful speech that is said in a serious tone and not taken out of context, then you got a more solid foundation to bash people on.

 

[brunothepig]

Eeeeeh. First time I find myself disagreeing with Bob here. I mean, yes, everything he said in this video is true, sometimes. But I really think political correctness shouldn't exist. It's true that words mean things. But, language is in a constant state of flux, and the meaning of any word is, to a degree, subjective.
As for offensive racial slurs and whatnot. I agree, they're stupid. People who use them, are stupid. People who think it's funny to act racist, whether they are or not, are stupid. But they should still be allowed to say it. It's the whole "I disagree with what you're saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it". I absolutely agree with this sentiment.
The main thing I don't like about the PC movement is how it really is "corrupting" things. Now, I happen to disagree that it's unimportant if movies or books or whatever are compromised for the sake of including everyone. Remember the fuss about the "Hobbit" movie? With a guy getting fired for advertising for casting positions for white hobbits. I think it's totally fair, non-white hobbits goes against the source material, and I for one, don't like that. Besides that, it's the principle of it all. It's stupid that they immediately fired the guy, just to save face (presumably). The stuff about Huckleberry Finn being released with that one "bad word" removed. Crap. Why don't we start re-releasing all rap albums to remove that same word?
And that's just it. Where do we draw the line? You get really stupid (in my opinion) PC claims, like how hard drives should no longer be "master" and "slave". You get people refusing to use words like "chairman", because it doesn't allow for women to be the "chairperson". And this stuff annoys me. I still use the word chairman, despite it being politically incorrect. There's no malice behind it, I'm not sexist, I'm just used to the word...
In fact, and I think this is my last point, context is the most important part. As Tim Minchin said, any word may well be offensive. The word finger seems innocuous enough, until it's used in the sentence "I want to finger your mum". Me and my mate use any insult under the sun we can think of to insult each other, because that's just how we express our love for each other. Or cause it's fun. Whatever. Anyway, neither of us are racist, homophobic, sexist, "anything"-ist. But we still use those words that have been labeled with those connotations.
Basically, I don't like how political correctness permeates society. But then, I don't think people should be offended more by the word retard, than the term mentally disabled. They mean the same thing anyway. I understand that people find some words more offensive than others, I just don't understand why. And I feel the PC movement may have something to do with that.
Sorry if this is a little unstructured, it's late here, I'm going to bed now. Great episode though Bob.

 

[Rabidkitten]

Ok, you are correct only 50 percent Bob. Sorry but PC has done damage, and not in making people use culturally sensitive remarks.

I'm going to go ahead and just use the easiest and most important recent destruction political correctness has wrought on out civilization. And that is the publishing of a version of Huckleberry Fin with the removal of the "N" word, and replacing it with the word "slave".

Simply put, they have annihilated the language in what is one of the greatest pieces of ANTI RACIST literature ever created. I will give the brief of what is wrong with this. Huckleberry Fin refers to his FRIEND who he is trying to help escape from the evil clutches of slavery as "N" word Jim, but its just a word. Huck is ignorant to the cultural implications of the word he uses to describe his friend, and changing said word to something "less offensive" dismantles the important meaning of the story.

This version of the book is being created for schools, because it's too hard to explain the use of such strong language in such a context? Are our children that stupid? Or are we just that weak?

Every time a racial slur is bleeped out on TV, the person who made the remark is essentially hiding behind what he just said without facing the true context of his statement. Is the softened term they use negate the point? or does it simple let people continue to be racist with more subtle language that people might find less offensive, without realizing the cruel message has remained intact?

Words do have meaning, and it is extremely important that each word is contained and understood in it's complete cultural context. And sure bigots will use "PC" as a weapon to protect what they are saying. But at the same time a term needs to exist when people censor, smear, and fraud history, literature, and what is actually being said in the name of their personal agenda.

 

[tkioz]

come-on there is a thing as going too far; just look at that LA ordnance that wanted to change how hard drive jumpers were labelled, it took an issue with "master" and "slave". ( http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/master.asp )

This is an interesting one because there's an implicit racism in the idea that Master and Slave are racially loaded terms - obviously there's no reason why slavery has to be white-on-black. However, in the context of US politics I can see why it could offend some people and I can't see any reason why we shouldn't question word usage and seek alternatives where possible. If there's a less offensive pair of words we could use (shepherd/sheep?), why not?

Okay that's incredibly offensive, slavery and race aren't inherently connected, hell African tribes supplied slaves to Europeans, Europeans were slaves, etc. Slavery is an evil institution going back the majority of human history, not just something that happen to America. Of course going by revisionist "Hollywood" history you'd never know that, it was all something cooked up by "evil white men to make a buck".

As for hard drives, it is a master/slave relationship, shepherd/sheep doesn't even come close to describing it accurately.

The very fact they wasted time and money on this crap offends me, there are better things to spend both on then some obscure (really how many non tech people even know that it is used?) terminology.

 

[rayen020]

Carlos mencia and jeff dunham are not politically incorrect but they are funny.

 

[person11]

God damn, Bob. You aren't automatically right about everything you know. I used to dislike bigotry too, but later I realized that just assuming their wrong is intellectually shameful.
And yes, their ARE being politically incorrect, what you just described is what being politically incorrect means.

 

[Ashoten]

Ok so for some perspective my general stance on most issues is that nether side is ever fully correct or conversely fully wrong. As a guy with a lot of time and an obsessively overactive imagination I tend to read a lot into things. So I am usually able to see both good and bad points in most arguments on both sides. Because from a practical stand point ANY defence people put up for their opinion could be considered a flimsy shield to protect their ego.

In that context I was a little baffled about where you were going with this one Bob. The list of people and arguments at the end definitely made things clear however. I can see your drawing a distinction between a thoughtful defense and a reflexive one with no effort behind it. Ok I can agree with that. 2 thumbs up.

I will admit that the first time I saw Jeff Dunham I ROFLMFAO'd and then felt immediately horrible about it. It's the kind of feeling you get when you see old WW2 propaganda posters of a very stereotypical Japanese guy in a straw hat getting punched with large captions reading "Gab a Jap" or something like that. It's funny for about 2 seconds cause pain inflicted on others is funny out of context of the real world, the three stooges taught us that. Then you realize just how mean and ugly the context of the poster is and feel bad. Then you think about it more and say to your buddies "I can't belive how racist people were back in the day. I'll never do that". Then several years later you find yourself laughing at Jeff Dunham and get a sick knott in yer stomic.

Again I need to give context. For me emotions are the genesis of thought. what do I mean by that? Well to put effort into thinking about something I first need to care. Ulness I'm emotionally invested in a topic I really only give a cursory glance. So with that in mind I hope you don't take offence at the next comment Bob cause it's ment to be a compliment.

I consider you to be the Rush Limba of the interwebs. Why? Cause you say things in a way that gets people emotionally involved in what your talking about. And then you follow it up with a genuinely solid argument and an honest opinion without trying to manipulate our emotions. This is something that makes a difference between a speaker that can hold the peoples attention and one that can't in my opinion. It's nice to hear someone in media who is left of center that can get me thinking about things. Again 2 thumbs up Bob.

p.s. I think I will get flamed for comparing MovieBob to Rush Limba but I don't really feel like defending this point as it's just my opinion and I may be wrong about it. I don't say that too often. I also realize that Rush Limba is sometimes a loudmouthed gas bag who does try to manipulate peoples feelings so the comparison is not entirely accurate. He is however good at getting people to listen to him(Rush Limba).

 

[Dan Shook]

Dear Bob

I find that as a geek we often agree, but as far as social mores, and your high minded rage against people having opinions that you don't share, we couldn't be further separated. I agree with you that words have meaning, but that meaning is half what the speaker meant and half what the listener takes from it. People today have no ability to take criticism because they are raised being told their special. A good deal of our generation has gigantically inflated sense of entitlement. You aren't special, I'm not special, we're just a couple of smart geeks kicking around in a world and trying to define ourselves. You seem to want to go with the current understanding of "progressive" which to me is the opposite of progress, I tend to define myself as honest, because the world is a harsh angry place and the more you deny that truth the more you expect out of yourself and everyone else and the more you are let down and become bitter.
I am, by and large, not bitter. I drink, I play games, I read, I hang out with my friends, and I understand that not everyone will get along. Its my honest belief that, socially, if you don't or won't stand up for yourself and demand to be treated equally then you deserve to be stepped on, its harsh and people might call me mean or a bigot, but here's the catch: I don't give a shit what negative things other people have to say about me.
I'm from Alabama, people call me a redneck, people call me uneducated, they think I'm inbred, they ask how many times I have had sex with members of my family, and you know what the difference between me and a black person who's called a ******(for those of you who will need this explanation see the at the bottom *) is? We've both been discriminated against for generations, we've both lost jobs because of our backgrounds, people think less of us because of how we talk, and we are both judged by and large by things that we have no control over. The difference is I know I'm not going to stop some asshole from being an asshole, I tell them that they are in fact an asshole, and I go on with my day. Words have exactly as much power over us as we give them. So if you feel like someone hates you because of something that you have no control over, realize that they are in fact small minded assholes and go on, that's on them, not you, and yes sometimes it might cost you something, but in the end it'll be ok, there are always more opportunities.
I may be rambling, but I'll give an anecdote and then I'm done. Back in the day when the English descended Americans made fun of every other ethnicity, the Polish being this example, and began making Polock jokes, do you know how Polish people coped? They made funnier Polock jokes, they took away the power of the people oppressing them by beating them at their own game. I think minorities today could take a lesson from that.



*And as an endnote I say ****** not the "n" word, because having to use little codewords like that is childish, we all know they word, and having to tiptoe around it is just showing how infantile the mentality of people discussing issues about it are. I am not a racist, I've dated women from handful of races and colors, I don't judge people by the color of their skins, but I will not give that word the power to frighten me out of saying it, especially when I'm just using it as an example, the fact that I feel the need to write this is enough to turn my stomach. Its a word, and words can hurt, but people can also get over it.

 

[Thedarkestofsouls]

Quite a bit of a rant, and seeming to stem more from an attack against the Right Wing then a PC or Anti-PC debate... but all I have to say on it is there are plenty of jerks that will use 'You're being overly PC' to sway their argument... but there are just as many who say 'That's offensive, you need to be more PC' to back their own arguments... even if they are as wrong as the 'anti-PC' crowd. There's two shields in this fight, Bob, not a shield and a sword.

 

[tkioz]

Frankly the PC crowd has done damage to free and open debate, you could come up with a reasoned, well argued, reason why you find (let's take a massive leap into the fire here) Middle Eastern Culture disgusting in parts, and bang, you're a racist, because you dared to have an opinion.

Yet take a shot at "white" culture and suddenly you're a champion for equality.

 

[MasterChief892039]

For a long time now I've held the unpopular opinion that RE5 was indeed fucked in terms of depictions of race.

And it's not even about a white dude killing black zombies. You encounter zombies, you're gonna kill them, no matter what race you or they are.

No. It's not about the zombies, but it is about this;

Spoiler

That's not sexy. It's just offensive.

 

[370999]

I agree to an extent with Bob. Yes you should be nice and inclusive to people, you should be fair, you shouldn't be bigoted. But at the same time you should not be forced to be. Another poster mentiones Geert Wilders and that is an important point, people should be allowed to say what they want.

 

[Tanis]

Is this the soap box of a white, (near) middle class, heterosexual male who's white knighting?
SHAME ON YOU BOB!
Don't get me wrong, I agree with the 'trolls' part - asking if Obama is our first black president or just a white boy in black-face is retarded (Yes, I've seen that question posed) - is just being a jerk.

However during the last election, and sometimes even now, I've been required to 'justify' not voting for him or else someone tosses the damn race card in my face.


Now, answer me this:
Why is it my ex-girlfriend, who was black, could say 'the n-word' in public but I couldn't for fear of being labeled a racist?

Yet, at the same time, being white in a mostly Hispanic community I was called all sorts of slurs and if I ever used one against said Mexicans I was the 'real bad guy'.

Should I be penalized for the color of my skin while others get a free past just because maybe their parents or grandparents went through crap?


Double standard are BS - either we're all equal or we acknowledge someones' superiority.

Either a slut is a slut - regardless of genitals - or the person is just 'sowing the wild oats'.

When the ship is sinking it shouldn't be 'women and children first', it should be 'children and their parents first - regardless if they have an inny or an outie'.



RE5:
You do realize that...

1) Some of those 'stereotypes' are based on truth.
2) Most people I recall complaining about RE5 was more because white dude killing black dude.
3) Most games exploit social issues - FF10/FFT bad mouthed the Catholic Church and in FFT the main point of the game was to kill Jesus - but an evil female version.
4) It's a Japanese game and it's not like they've got a whole lot of black people in Japan, ever watched anime? Most black people in anime are basically just 'doing the white-face'.

 

[wildcard9]

P.S: "Gringo" is not a racial slur on par with the N-Word: it just means "white person" while the other is a hateful, disgusting term. That is all.

Actually the N-word comes from the Latin word "niger" meaning black.... Your argument is silly.

It probably also comes from the Spanish word for black...Negro. But a little context: I made that case after certain pundits called gringo a racial slur [http://www.youtube.com/user/TheYoungTurks#p/search/1/j8i1OpdJMS0].

 

[Shadow_Kid]

Holy crap Bob!
This has caused the most WALL-OF-TEXT answers ever and we are only on the third page?

 

[pffh]

For a long time now I've held the unpopular opinion that RE5 was indeed fucked in terms of depictions of race.

And it's not even about a white dude killing black zombies. You encounter zombies, you're gonna kill them, no matter what race you or they are.

No. It's not about the zombies, but it is about this;

Spoiler

That's not sexy. It's just offensive.

Why is that offensive and this

Spoiler

isn't?

 

[Emergent System]

To be entirely honest my "problem" is that I think a lot of the groups that I criticize can do a lot better, they can meet the same standards set by the majority, humans are humans. People who think that these groups need to be protected ultimatly have attitudes that come down to those people somehow being unable to do better, which is why the protection is nessicary. On most levels that's actually far more bigoted than I am, and an even worse kind of sugar-coated racism than what the politically correct hope to decry.

I agree with pretty much everything you just wrote, and especially this part. People tend to glaze over the fact that "benign" racism is still racism.

 

[Rabidkitten]

However during the last election, and sometimes even now, I've been required to 'justify' not voting for him or else someone tosses the damn race card in my face.


Now, answer me this:
Why is it my ex-girlfriend, who was black, could say 'the n-word' in public but I couldn't for fear of being labeled a racist?

Yet, at the same time, being white in a mostly Hispanic community I was called all sorts of slurs and if I ever used one against said Mexicans I was the 'real bad guy'.

Should I be penalized for the color of my skin while others get a free past just because maybe their parents or grandparents went through crap?


Double standard are BS - either we're all equal or we acknowledge someones' superiority.

Well, no one said that racism is reserved for white people only. You have every right to be offended when they insult you based on your race, but it doesn't justify you using racial terms against them. You simply lower yourself to their level.