The Big Picture: Fair Game
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Wow. Well, I guess this is going to have to be the one where I disagree with Bob most strongly on. While I agree with his plea for civility and honest and open debate I could not disagree more with his certain assertions.
I hope that bit about reconsidering the Fairness Doctrine was sarcasm. The points that were made about blandness and the fact that there's so many outlets and people are so savvy are exactly why it shouldn't be. It was a terrible idea then, it would be no less disastrous now.
I've never noticed this "pop-culture duality", if anything the opposite. The debates that I see plaguing geek culture are more of a singularity. "This one thing I like is awesome and it is the only awesome thing and everything else sucks." Which makes "Presumption #2" equally as dubious. Again, me personally, I've never seen this clamoring for equal praise/disdain. At most it's always been a request for equal respect, maybe, because again these arguements have always come down to "I'm right; you're wrong" bitchfests where no one gives anyone ANY credit.
The reason fanboy has become such a dirty word is precisely because they have been the poster-boys for the very accusations railed against. It seems Bob and I have had polar opposite experiences because any conversation about anything always breaks down into belligerence between the fanboy factions. XBOX fanboys proclaiming that Playstation sucks and Playstations fanboys pulling out excuses of XBOX's inferiority and so on. This has been going on for as long as I've lived. Sega and Nintendo, rap and rock, Intel and AMD, Comics and Manga, Star Trek and Babylon 5, etc etc etc. It has always been the fanboys of each side that have always been unwilling to give any credence or dignity to the opposition. That is what fanboy has come to mean; being so stubbornly devoted to something that it can do no wrong and is always right. Fanboyism is the media equivalent of partisanship in politics.
I think Bob has this totally backwards. When he says people who like Killzone are accused of being fanboys I'd say, "Yeah, and guess who is calling them that? The XBOX fanboys!" The correlation of liking something equaling disliking it's perceived rival is also fallacious. This is exactly what I'm talking about. The example he tries to give in defense of fanboys is PRECISELY the stereotypical fanboy MO. It is usually the fanboys who love one thing and instinctively, habitually and reflexively hate its rival.
The one thing I do agree with Bob on is this kind of discourse and partisan hackery does have to stop, across all fields. It's ok to dislike something, it's ok to disagree, as long as we can do so like reasonable and mature adults. A tall order for the internet/geek community.
I hope that bit about reconsidering the Fairness Doctrine was sarcasm. The points that were made about blandness and the fact that there's so many outlets and people are so savvy are exactly why it shouldn't be. It was a terrible idea then, it would be no less disastrous now.
I've never noticed this "pop-culture duality", if anything the opposite. The debates that I see plaguing geek culture are more of a singularity. "This one thing I like is awesome and it is the only awesome thing and everything else sucks." Which makes "Presumption #2" equally as dubious. Again, me personally, I've never seen this clamoring for equal praise/disdain. At most it's always been a request for equal respect, maybe, because again these arguements have always come down to "I'm right; you're wrong" bitchfests where no one gives anyone ANY credit.
The reason fanboy has become such a dirty word is precisely because they have been the poster-boys for the very accusations railed against. It seems Bob and I have had polar opposite experiences because any conversation about anything always breaks down into belligerence between the fanboy factions. XBOX fanboys proclaiming that Playstation sucks and Playstations fanboys pulling out excuses of XBOX's inferiority and so on. This has been going on for as long as I've lived. Sega and Nintendo, rap and rock, Intel and AMD, Comics and Manga, Star Trek and Babylon 5, etc etc etc. It has always been the fanboys of each side that have always been unwilling to give any credence or dignity to the opposition. That is what fanboy has come to mean; being so stubbornly devoted to something that it can do no wrong and is always right. Fanboyism is the media equivalent of partisanship in politics.
I think Bob has this totally backwards. When he says people who like Killzone are accused of being fanboys I'd say, "Yeah, and guess who is calling them that? The XBOX fanboys!" The correlation of liking something equaling disliking it's perceived rival is also fallacious. This is exactly what I'm talking about. The example he tries to give in defense of fanboys is PRECISELY the stereotypical fanboy MO. It is usually the fanboys who love one thing and instinctively, habitually and reflexively hate its rival.
The one thing I do agree with Bob on is this kind of discourse and partisan hackery does have to stop, across all fields. It's ok to dislike something, it's ok to disagree, as long as we can do so like reasonable and mature adults. A tall order for the internet/geek community.
Doesn't the very definition of opinion suggest that it is not objective? How is an objective opinion possible? *whacked in the face with a fish* ...It's true... I am afraid of having an opinion on the internet without making concedes to the other side first...
Oh God, this was so refreshing to hear and see.
TOO MANY TIMES have I expressed disagreement with certain political views only to be called a fanboy of the opposition. This is what my more enlightened friends call a "False Dichotomy."
Is this more of an American quirk? I ask because we have a political structure that is so polarized and partisan.
TOO MANY TIMES have I expressed disagreement with certain political views only to be called a fanboy of the opposition. This is what my more enlightened friends call a "False Dichotomy."
Is this more of an American quirk? I ask because we have a political structure that is so polarized and partisan.
there is something worse then the fair game bull, and it's the fo-fair game. It's were a media makes a huge deal for or agents something and then bring someone in to give a week argument agents what they just said. "Fox News" is notorious for doing this, even getting someone to both argue agent them as they are agreeing with them, then say that this is 100% balanced news.
it's like a slow sweet poison that accumulates, it tastes nice, but more you take it, the worse thing get.
it's like a slow sweet poison that accumulates, it tastes nice, but more you take it, the worse thing get.
Fox News watcher? *BAZINGA!*Garfy said:
In all seriousness I thought this video was a pretty valid argument. For the most part, I'm OK with most Cos-players. Yet anytime I voice this opinion on other forums I'm horrified to find I've been lumped in with furries and other weird fetishists. Sometimes it would be nice to like one thing without automatically being lumped in with a group you wouldn't normally be associated with.
Wow. Ten pages already. All I came to say is that one of my coworkers has an XBox 360 and another has a PS3. Each of them dislikes the other system for no reason at all. THAT is the real fanboyism. Arbitrary dislike for something just because it's different -- especially without having given it a chance. There's a word for that...
I agree with your opinion, but not because when I say I like something, it means I hate the other automatically.
What I hate is when people just assume you are the extreme type of fanboy for something.
Say for instance what happen with my parents. They are Writing Convention, fantasy and Sci-fi watching people and were fans of the original series of Star Trek when it first came out (they even help get people to sign the petition) So in other words they go by the fan name of TREKKERS.
But since they say they like Star Trek, everyone just assumes "Oh you are TREKKIES."
You won't believe how many times I have to explain the difference between the two. Trekkers are fans of Star Trek that enjoy the series and movies and consider themselves with in the fanbase. Trekkies are the annoying groupies that stalk the old actors and are convinced the original series was the best and none other. See by mentioning you like something you automatically get grouped into the fanatics.
If you say you like Antro (human animal hybrids) then you are a furry lover that wants to have sex in costumes.
If you say you go to conventions you are crazy nerd that lives with their mother.
If you say you are Twilight fan, you are a crazy psycho that doesn't know good writing. (I actually believe this one)
So more or less you hit it on the head Bob, and I just wish people would just assume some one is automatically a fanatic as soon as they mention something they like. If we also applied this to life and didn't assume that people of religions weren't the same way, the world would be a better place.
What I hate is when people just assume you are the extreme type of fanboy for something.
Say for instance what happen with my parents. They are Writing Convention, fantasy and Sci-fi watching people and were fans of the original series of Star Trek when it first came out (they even help get people to sign the petition) So in other words they go by the fan name of TREKKERS.
But since they say they like Star Trek, everyone just assumes "Oh you are TREKKIES."
You won't believe how many times I have to explain the difference between the two. Trekkers are fans of Star Trek that enjoy the series and movies and consider themselves with in the fanbase. Trekkies are the annoying groupies that stalk the old actors and are convinced the original series was the best and none other. See by mentioning you like something you automatically get grouped into the fanatics.
If you say you like Antro (human animal hybrids) then you are a furry lover that wants to have sex in costumes.
If you say you go to conventions you are crazy nerd that lives with their mother.
If you say you are Twilight fan, you are a crazy psycho that doesn't know good writing. (I actually believe this one)
So more or less you hit it on the head Bob, and I just wish people would just assume some one is automatically a fanatic as soon as they mention something they like. If we also applied this to life and didn't assume that people of religions weren't the same way, the world would be a better place.
The word fanboy has undergone pejoration in the past few years, as words do, and it's semantics are now broadly negative. Take your argument up with the words spaz and retard.
OPINIONS
I like the PS3/Xbox360/Wii. I like this game. I don't like that game.
FANBOY SPEAK
teh ps3 sux Xbox 360 is waaaaaay better, the wii is fer kiddies!!!!!!1 Any1 woo doesn't agree wit me is jus a TROLL!!!
Learn the difference, it could save your life.
I like the PS3/Xbox360/Wii. I like this game. I don't like that game.
FANBOY SPEAK
teh ps3 sux Xbox 360 is waaaaaay better, the wii is fer kiddies!!!!!!1 Any1 woo doesn't agree wit me is jus a TROLL!!!
Learn the difference, it could save your life.
I have yet to notice this to the degree that you mentioned it, which may be because I care enough about my personal mental health to stay off of 4-chan. But to the degree that I have, I would agree.
There still is a lot of fairness doctrine in political discussions. For example no matter how many scientists support the theory of global climate change as long as a news network can find one last crackhead with an opposing theory this crackhead will get airtime.
The picture of Itchy and Scratchy with beady eyes made this video far more disturbing than it should have been.
But worst then general trolls are the troll feeders.
You can even replace the consoles names with political parties, musicians, theater authers, sports teams or even neighbourhoods and the tone remains exactly the same.Limos said:
But worst then general trolls are the troll feeders.
Although, a balanced perspective is still important to public media (just nothing else). For instance, I expect a varied group of elites when I listen to a debate about elitism (referencing a recent cbc radio debate. It started out hilarious, then I realized it was just sad). A balanced perspective is incredibly important for offering general opinions (for instance, the news), but offering an exclusively biased opinion is also essential. That way you can listen to the other religiously devoted (to their chosen subject, that is) yell at each other as you point and laugh. Then mumble "aww, what the hell" and jump in when the opportunity seems right.
As for fanboyhood, I completely agree, although that may be my paranoia talking.
As for fanboyhood, I completely agree, although that may be my paranoia talking.
Although, a balanced perspective is still important to public media (just nothing else). For instance, I expect a varied group of elites when I listen to a debate about elitism (referencing a recent cbc radio debate. It started out hilarious, then I realized it was just sad). A balanced perspective is incredibly important for offering general opinions (for instance, the news), but offering an exclusively biased opinion is also essential. That way you can listen to the other religiously devoted (to their chosen subject, that is) yell at each other as you point and laugh. Then mumble "aww, what the hell" and jump in when the opportunity seems right.
As for fanboyhood, I completely agree, although that may be my paranoia talking.
GAH! Double post apologies. This is actually the first time my computer has done this (on the escapist).
As for fanboyhood, I completely agree, although that may be my paranoia talking.
GAH! Double post apologies. This is actually the first time my computer has done this (on the escapist).
"My opinion is better than your opinion because your opinion isn't mine."
~ The root of all flame
The good news is the internet provides such a wealth of information that the masses have the ability to pick and choose which opinions are worth listening to, and which to ignore. As for commentators like movie Bob? well all I can say is I'd hate to have your inbox.
~ The root of all flame
The good news is the internet provides such a wealth of information that the masses have the ability to pick and choose which opinions are worth listening to, and which to ignore. As for commentators like movie Bob? well all I can say is I'd hate to have your inbox.