The Big Picture: Fair Game

[Fire Daemon]

I only call fanboy when somebody says something is objectively wrong in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That or criticise their opposition rather than their arguments. That or criticise something they have very limited experience in.

*cough*
http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-40-Heavens-to-Metroid
*cough*
http://screwattack.com/videos/GAME-ANTITHINKER-History-of-Video-Games
*cough*
http://screwattack.com/videos/TGO-Episode-42-Worst-Person

Ha, very nice post, and one that I agree with.

It's quite obvious that MovieBob is trying to quell the fanboy criticisms that he's had thrown his way, but overall it comes across as rather weak.

As with all Internet lingo, fanboy has no actual definition set in stone, so Bob is free to create his own particular definition and viewpoint on the word and construct arguments on the usage of it, but I can't help but feel like MovieBob deliberately ignored what his decriers mean when they call him a fanboy in order to attack a misrepresentation of his opponents opinions. Which is essentially a Straw Man argument, par the course in regards to most of MovieBob's arguments.

To me a somewhat similar example to Bob's argument goes like this: Person A calls Person B Ignorant, only to have Person B respond; "Person A believes that everyone should be imprisoned within a Library and forced to learn and read all that they can because Person A hates ignorance". Person A may well hate ignorance, as people on the Internet may well hate MovieBob's fanboy behaviour, but that doesn't mean both want to inflict some sort of totalitarian hell hole on the populace. Person A doesn't want cruelly enforced education and nerd culture doesn't want complete equilibrium where everything is regarded as equal and one must not place something before another. I mean, really, how can you say that stuff with a serious voice?

Moviebob, when people are calling you a fanboy it isn't because you like something above another, and it certainly isn't to restore balance to the Internet. Most of the time people are calling you a fanboy because of your actions, your attitudes and your arguments. Essentially, they aren't calling you a fanboy for liking something, they call you a fanboy for being a douche about liking something, and that massive difference is what this all comes down to. When you make a point of being hostile in liking something or not liking something then, that's when the word fanboy comes out to play

If I say that "I like Metroid: Other M", I doubt I would be called a Fanboy for that. A fan, yeah maybe, but as I'm not being a douche about it I doubt the word will turn up. If I said "I Like Metoid: Other M and people who disagree with me are racist" then yeah, fanboy would come up much more often, but only because I'm being a douche in exerting my opinions, not because of the opinion itself. If I said "I like Killzone" I wouldn't be called a fanboy, if I said "The 360 sucks, Gaylo: Reach around is a terrible game and Killzone 2 is the best thing ever made" then I would be called a fanboy. Again, not because of the opinion, but because of how I express.

However fanboy does equally mean someone who is just a fan of something with no negative connotations involved, however you rarely see this aspect of Fanboy used in any sort of argument, but rather used as identifying oneself as a fan of something.

The word seems to be at a crossroads between being a douche about expressing your opinions on a show/movie/game/genre/website etc and just being a fan, this thread shows this greatly. There are many people on this thread calling themselves Big Picture fanboys, and I doubt they call themselves that for any other reason then saying that they like the show. Words change overtime, and this is true at 10x speed over the Internet.

Neither definition involves anyone wanting balance though. If fanboy means fan, someone calling you an x fanboy means that you like x which has nothing to do with balancing anything, it's just a statement. Somewhat redundant, but whatever. If fanboy means someone who expresses his opinions in such a way that antagonises others, then this isn't an attempt to balance things out either, but is actually someone criticising your attitudes and arguments. The term fanboy can be ignored completely, and if that happened I would doubt that the long, scathing paragraphs that replace Fanboy would be in anyway considered to be some sort of act to balance out opinions and make sure that 'everything gets its cookie'.

 

[LazyAza]

I've always said my opinion without a care in the world and many times its resulted in me getting angry pms, its utter insanity. Every time I read someone say 'well clearly this game reviewer hates this platform because he dislikes game X' I want to punch something.

Thank god things have been changing slowly as the gamer audience in particular gets older and more mature, usually the only ones making a big deal out of opinions now are just idiot teenagers who don't understand having opinions is fine and disliking or liking something without extreme justification is fine.

 

[Valencrow]

you see the problem bob is that you let people like trolls affect you.
Remember most trolls are confined to the internet. There they can't really effect you in any meaningful way. They can't make you complement the zombie food of McDonalds or say the aging Simpsons is still funny. The only time they can even attempt something like that is in the real world at a gathering place of our fellow nerds.

I make it a point in life to ignore trolls right up the the point they are brave enough to get in my face in real life. That is when I tell them with my best face that what they are doing is unwise. If that doesn't work I headbutt them. That always works.
You see trolls have weak convictions. They can't stand up for anything because they don't really believe in anything. If they did they wouldn't be trolls.

Before you ask yes I have headbutted one or two people. Lucky most can't seem to remember what just happened to them and I can finish what I'm doing and go. Head trauma will do that.

 

[Rangergord]

To those of you who haven?t seen any of Bob?s other work I suggest you look up his Game Overthinker videos and watch them all. He makes some excellent and well researched points, so what are the hot topics? From all the really good videos Bob has made, you also get a sense of the following running ?gut? opinions beyond his analysis:

?FPS is the worse thing to happen to the game industry [since the 1980?s game crash]?

?Play Station was only a lucky fluke? [and has no business having a console?and frankly neither does Microsoft]

Anyone that enjoys Halo, COD, Sports Games, etc. (or more appropriately anyone on X-Box Live or considers themselves a ?hardcore gamer?) is probably a jock ?douchebag?, is about as smart as a piece of toast, is a Xeno-or Homophobe, and has no redeeming qualities.

Is this being just opinionated, as Bob claims? Yes.
Is it okay? Sure, freedom of speech is fine, even it is kind of jarring and unrefined (though personally I pine for the days when freedom of speech was a little more refined and civil).
Is it Polarizing? Well, it is Bob.
Is fair to say that these opinions should warrant no response? Um No?we?ll get to that later.

Of course as a fan, I can take Bob with a grain of salt. I realize many of his points are not only serious and cynical, but are also imbued with dark satire. It is often great stuff.

But as fan of Bob, I also own a PS3, like Halo, enjoy Online Multiplayer and MMOs, love fighting games, own a couple of sports game, and still love old school console classics and scrollers.

So by that estimation I?m a Douchebag Loser Jock Fanboy?

Thanks a lot Bob

Certainly The Big Picture is clearly a different animal than the Game Overthinker, but what surprises me is Bob himself seems surprised about reactions to some of his more polarizing arguments have generated. Really Bob?

A polarizing opinion tends to generate an opposing polarizing opinion of a greater value, which of course feeds back into the first opinion, and so on; each cycle becoming more polarized.

Bob, you fed into the beast willingly, only to turn around and blame the beast for biting too hard?only to feed again. And you are not alone, we?ve all done it. Welcome to the internet.

Hell welcome to post post modern media, where balance opinions are often forgotten and pushed aside for talking points (though I think Extra Credit has done a great job bringing back a nice middle ground thats been missing for like 20 years; talking about a subject from multiple angles is not a sign a weakness, but forethought and realization not everything is ying an yang, but often a mix of both).

Fans will defend Bob, saying that his opinions are justified and well informed, and indeed truthful. And yes we can declare ourselves Fanboys, Fangirls....Fanpeople...oay poltical correctness another day! when did fanboy become a dirty term?

His opponents may say that Bob (with this video) is trying to passively assert that his opinion is the truth, and should not questioned and taken on faith; and in the context (or out of context as the case maybe) of some of his past opinions, you are not only wrong but immoral if you disagree with Bob.

A pessimist may just see Bob as a self proclaimed media/political demagogues using this medium as way to garner sympathy from a new audience while deflecting attention away from his past (and perhaps future) transgressions. All the while trying to hide the fact he is no better than the enemy he hates.


Time well tell; but we must all be aware if you feed the beast, expect to be bite.

 

[Calbeck]

I have to say, I've seen very little of this kind of behavior. Not "none", just very little.

Then again, I don't generally spend my time arguing over consoles or who has what given exclusive. I'm a huge gamer, but I couldn't care less about gaming cliques --- because they have exactly ZERO effect on my gaming.

Gamer cliques don't determine what's on the market, who makes what game, how it's designed, how it's marketed, or any of that. They're utterly ignorable.

 

[coakroach]

Excellant stuff, me gusta.

 

[gl1koz3]

I knew it wasn't for nothing that each time someone points at me and says "it is just your opinion", I say "thank's capt."

 

[Rangergord]

I have to say, I've seen very little of this kind of behavior. Not "none", just very little.

Then again, I don't generally spend my time arguing over consoles or who has what given exclusive. I'm a huge gamer, but I couldn't care less about gaming cliques --- because they have exactly ZERO effect on my gaming.

Gamer cliques don't determine what's on the market, who makes what game, how it's designed, how it's marketed, or any of that. They're utterly ignorable.

Interestng, indeed it does all come down to numbers for the companies. But the latest Black Ops was one the biggest games in history on the heels of MW2, but decried as just kind of average by many reviewers...did the so called cliques of MW2 spawn a new game through their collective perchasing habits, or did the collective purchasing habits create the cliques.

Certainly marketing can create, or reinforece a cliques I think, even unintentionally...did we ever use the term causal gamer so much before the Wii?

I think this an interesting marketing topic, on the power of the new electronic masses of disconnected consumers and their purchasing habits.

 

[kingmob]

That were a lot of straw man arguments in a row. With every video I get the progressively stronger impression Bob hangs out in the wrong crowd, thinks this crowd is nerd culture (or even worse, society in general) and then uses this to feed his misanthropic tendencies.
I guess this is a complicated way of telling Bob to lighten up, the world isn't that bad actually, no, not even the internet.

Also, I guess this gives Bob his excuse for his fanboy tendencies which frankly, are simply there.

 

[Cade the Imperfect]

I accept my place as a Big Picture Fanboy!

And i declare to you all now! I am a Sony Fanboy, Ps3 exclusives get me pumped and i love being able to run bluerays on my gaming machine. BRING ON THE HATE!!!

 

[diepvriesmaaltijd]

"objective opinion?"

 

[Mykayel1]

Bob isn't being "fanboy crucified" because he likes a certain game, comic book or movie. He's being "fanboy crucified" for actually being a hypocrite. I still watch his shows but every time he talks about Nintendo he has this bad habit for praising them for things that apply to Sony and/or Microsoft as well and then dissing the "competition" for things that also apply to Nintendo. That's the big picture Bob, if you have a show called the game OVERthinker, then you need to do some research about what it is you are talking about. A lot of the time he makes really good solid arguments (which is why I keep watching his show) but when he drops the bomb, he does so with more stupidity than any "XBOT" or what-ever-the-hell the $ony fanboys are being called now.

 

[C-Demo]

So, is the opposite of a Big Picture fanboy a 4Chan fanboy?

(Disclaimer: /tg/ is alright. At least when the 40kmasterrace is taking a day off)

 

[secretsantaone]

Isn't an objective opinion an oxymoron?

 

[matt87_50]

OBJECTIVE OPINION is fine. baseless regurgitated BS being presented as fact... YOU SHALL NOT PASS! also: baseless, vague opinion... you can get right to the back of the line too! you are at best, completely irrelevant. acceptable in a positive context:

'A positive post about Apple': comment "I love Apple!" fine! no harm, no foul. maybe Apple will read the article and be encouraged by the positive feedback.

'A positive post about Android': comment "I prefer Apple!" ... so? why? I mean... good for you! have a fucking cookie! ... wtf do you want the Android guys to do from that constructive criticism!? "oh shit! I knew we were doing something wrong! we should have been Apple!! ohhh man! it's so obvious now!" ...


but yeah, I know exactly what you mean. for sake of example: I hate Apple. this is something born from my vast (forced) knowledge of what they do. (forced by my job that is)

so you can imagine how palmed my face gets when I get called an apple fanboy just because I comment on something that IOS does better than Android...

I've never caved to it though. I don't qualify by starting "I hate Apple, but..." but I WILL flame the hell out of anyone who does that to me!

thought I must admit, it does get tiring.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Nice turn-around on the last sentence. I disagree though, since i didn't see that behavior much in my experience. I just avoid random retarded Flame wars, and that serves me fine.

 

[paragon1]

Hey, Bob, I'm glad you've taken the time to point out how ridiculous that kind of thinking has become. Do you think maybe you could avoid participating in that sort of thing in the future? I've noticed that you tend to hate on the fans of FPS and sports simulators in quite a few of your Game Overthinker videos.

I'm not complaining about when you talk about why you don't like those kinds of games. Everyone has their own personal taste and opinions. I'm talking about when you make a caricature of the people who enjoy those games (usually accompanied by a picture of the Alpha Betas from Revenge of the Nerds). You tend to make it sound like the only people who could enjoy those games are drunken fratboy douchebags with a gun fetish and no appreciation for creativity. And that really makes me sad Bob, because you seem like a pretty open minded sort of guy.

Can't you just live and let live?

 

[Kroxile]

Meh, I say what I think and moderators, trolls, and anyone else who has a problem with it can deal with it.

I cannot begin the count the times I've been moderated on GameFAQs for stating my opinions regardless of who it riles up. I have been called a fanboy and a troll, but thats what the internet is these days. If you say something that either isn't the popular opinion or if you give your side with quantifying the other you are branded a troll or a fanboy and it really is just ridiculous.