The Big Picture: It Seems Today ...

[Amir Kondori]

I love Family Guy and was not aware it was a cool thing to hate it. Of course just about anything that gets very popular experiences a backlash, just look at the Simpsons.

I think there has certainly been issues with the consistency of the series when the show does a good job with an episode they really knock it out of the park.

 

[Adventurer2626]

Damn it Bob! Ugh. Fine, fine, fine. I kind of, maybe, possibly enjoy it sometimes too. Total guilty pleasure status.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

South Park is a show that presents a proper "big picture". Amidst all the inane humor and shear anarchy of whatever issue they're currently parodying, at some point they always present both sides of the debate in a clear and reasonable way, thereupon providing immediate levity by ending the episode on a massive joke.

No, it really doesn't. Also, talking about "both sides" of an issues is one of the major problems with South Park. There aren't always exactly two sides to every story. And South Park usually doesn't present very many arguments clearly and reasonably - just the opposite, in fact. It's quite heavy-handed in the way it presents issues.

I get that it's supposed to be over-the-top, but that usually results in less funny and less on-target satire than more subtle satires like golden-era Simpsons did. If you look at the golden-era Simpsons political satires, they usually hold up well today, but South Park's political satires seem outdated very quickly, they don't have much longevity or repeat-viewability.

The point of South Park isn't to "take a stand" on anything. The point is to show that while the people you so easily criticize can be pretty fucking stupid, you are just as capable of the same kind of stupid, only from a different stance.

But "not taking a stand" is in itself taking a stand - usually a stand of apathy and cynicism. But if you think South Park doesn't take a stand on anything, I don't think you've been watching closely enough. It makes plenty of stances.

Anyway, South Park is not the topic of this thread.

 

[The Material Sheep]

South Park is a show that presents a proper "big picture". Amidst all the inane humor and shear anarchy of whatever issue they're currently parodying, at some point they always present both sides of the debate in a clear and reasonable way, thereupon providing immediate levity by ending the episode on a massive joke.

No, it really doesn't. Also, talking about "both sides" of an issues is one of the major problems with South Park. There aren't always exactly two sides to every story. And South Park usually doesn't present very many arguments clearly and reasonably - just the opposite, in fact. It's quite heavy-handed in the way it presents issues.

I get that it's supposed to be over-the-top, but that usually results in less funny and less on-target satire than more subtle satires like golden-era Simpsons did. If you look at the golden-era Simpsons political satires, they usually hold up well today, but South Park's political satires seem outdated very quickly, they don't have much longevity or repeat-viewability.

The point of South Park isn't to "take a stand" on anything. The point is to show that while the people you so easily criticize can be pretty fucking stupid, you are just as capable of the same kind of stupid, only from a different stance.

But "not taking a stand" is in itself taking a stand - usually a stand of apathy and cynicism. But if you think South Park doesn't take a stand on anything, I don't think you've been watching closely enough. It makes plenty of stances.

Anyway, South Park is not the topic of this thread.

See, I feel most of the issues people have with South Park, are those who don't like to see that the other side has people on it too, who aren't the horrendous monsters they're characterized as. Most of the time, they're often wrong, but there is a trend in modern society to set things in an us verses them light.

South Park is not asking you to NOT take a stand. It's asking you to see that there is another side, and it's a side filled with mostly decent people not alien monsters out to destroy everything you hold dear. At worst it's anti extremes, and taking an ideology so far that you don't see the people anymore, just furthering the ideology.

 

[thebakedpotato]

Bob's burgers seems like Home Movies with a mandatory mumblecore weirdness quota.

 

[Redd the Sock]

I probably would have been with you a year ago, but the last year made me realize how much I'd only been watching out of habit. It's like I said when you did the Simpsons: first I see the jokes coming, then I dread them. I mean, I probably wasn't the first person to change the channel with the realization it was a Meg centric episode, but after a while, I was only getting regular laughs from Quagmire, the Brian / Stewie adventures, and the film parodies. Once Upon a Time and Game of Thrones started trumping my Sunday night, and after a few weeks of missing episodes, I realized I didn't care. Peter's hijinxs just stopped being fresh, and I didn't need to see more of Brian's failing love life and writing career.

McFarlane's a legit talent, even if his style is better suited for comedy central roast than the Oscars, and the show didn't get less funny. But I've seen the act and need new material.

 

[Kotaro]

Jeez, that laughing clip was fucking creepy.
I haven't seen anything of "Family Guy" since I caught a couple episodes of season 3 years ago, and I just don't find it funny. Caught a bit of "American Dad" recently and while I admit it was better than what I saw of "Family Guy," I still didn't think it was all that funny.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I did catch one other more recent episode of "Family Guy" where Stewie and Brian were locked in a bank vault. It was one of the most horrible, unfunny, and just mean-spirited things I've ever seen.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

See, I feel most of the issues people have with South Park, are those who don't like to see that the other side has people on it too, who aren't the horrendous monsters they're characterized as. Most of the time, they're often wrong, but there is a trend in modern society to set things in an us verses them light.

Well, that couldn't be more incorrect about how I see South Park. I don't care about shows representing a political opinion I disagree with in a positive light. I don't care about shows parodying opinions I do agree with. What I mostly care about is if it's funny and well-written.

The problem with South Park is exactly this fallacy of "the other side" or "two sides" of an argument, and the way it only presents the most extreme views of those sides. It's a weak form of narrative. It's easy to seem "above it all" if you only present the two extremes, rather than the nuanced arguments in the middle.

Don't get me wrong, I do mostly like South Park, and have seen every episode. It was just a lot funnier when it was about a bunch of innocent kids trying to comprehend the absurdity of the world around them, rather than trying to make political comments, or pot-shots at the celebrity du-jour.

South Park is not asking you to NOT take a stand. It's asking you to see that there is another side,

But that's such a silly and pointless argument. Who doesn't know that there is another side? That hardly needs to be pointed out.

It does take stands fairly often, though. When it's not being all about apathy and cynicism, it usually tends towards a right-leaning Libertarian politics.

At worst it's anti extremes, and taking an ideology so far that you don't see the people anymore, just furthering the ideology.

But it often becomes its own extreme of selfish Libertarianism. It frequently targets people who are passionate or care about issues for good reasons, not just extremists who irrationally believe things. There aren't just two extremes, and that's the central fallacy of much of modern South Park. It can't deal with anything more nuanced than two completely opposed sides. It often proposes Libertarianism as some kind of middle-ground between two sides, where in reality, Libertarianism can be just as extreme itself.

It's not really the "big picture" show you think it is - just look at Parker and Stone themselves, read some interviews with them. They are writing from their own (fairly narrow) perspective, and they say themselves that they grew up in a small, isolated town that was quite a miserable experience. Then they moved out of that town, and realized there was much more to the world. Meanwhile, plenty of us knew that already.

 

[TKretts3]

There really isn't much else to this post but that. Every time I talk to friends about how funny the latest episode of Family Guy was (Oh my gosh, the Valentine's Day one!), I always get odd looks of confusion and disbelief. Good for you for coming out as laughing at Family Guy, Bob!

 

[LordMonty]

My big confession is I never really liked the simsons that much, but love Futurama and yea guess Simsons just went on too long for me. To keep on subject I love Family Guy and its two bastard children. They're easy going gagathons time fillers of the highest standard, not as high quality as Futurama but fun.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Start... watching Bob's Burgers? Is that a joke? Is that some kind awful... sick... twisted joke? I can't believe he said that to me. I can't ,fucking, believe he said that to me.

(I don't like Bob's Burgers. I've only seen one episode. I did not want to see anymore.)

I'm always amazed at how many people say Bob's Burgers is terrible, and then to go on to say that they haven't rally watched it. What is it about this show (in particular) that provokes this response? In this same thread, one guy said that Bob's Burgers is "shit" after seeing half an episode. That's 11 minutes.

On another board, there was a guy arguing that Family Guy was by the best animated comedy on TV. I asked him "What about American Dad or Bob's Burgers?" His response was "Oh, I haven't watch those shows."

So, how the hell can you proclaim Family Guy to be the best, if you don't watch other the other animated shows??

This to me is so much worse than any of the other arguments about the quality of a show. I'll disagree with others about aspects of shows, but I'll respect their different opinions, because at least they have watched the shows. But these kinds of comments are just absurd.

For the record, I have seen EVERY episode of:

The Simpsons
Futurama
Family Guy
American Dad
The Cleveland Show
South Park
King of the Hill
Bob's Burgers
Beavis and Butthead

... among others. So, while we might disagree about these shows, at least I know the material, so we can have an informed discussion.

These people who are like "I really didn't watch this, and it sucks" are just the worst. I don't understand what makes people make those kind of comments. Is it just them being very immature? If you don't know the material, why are you commenting on it, for attention?

 

[Solo-Wing]

Oh you referenced Community. I and a large portion of the internet must now know your opinion on it. Also Bob's burgers is indeed VERY funny.

 

[honestdiscussioner]

I don't know what Moviebob is talking about. Mostly everyone I know likes Family Guy in some capacity.

 

[Camaranth]

I've watched Family Guy on and off. When it's good it's alright but when it's bad, Man is it horrible. And I'm really not a fan of gag humour so that doesn't help my opinion.

What stopped me watching it (apart from the occasional 1am I'm too wired from work to sleep yet viewings) are the episodes where it seems like the writers went, "crap the run time is only 15 minutes....screw it remember that song we referenced? yeah let's just put the entire 5min music video in and go to the pub." "but that only brings the run time up to 20 we need 24!" "Fine Stewie vomits at some point we'll make that last 2min and then that other joke can be stretched too. Let's go, it's your round."

 

[WiseBass]

Personally, I loved Family Guy seasons 4-8, and thought it was brilliant at its best (particularly when it focused on Stewie and Brian together). I also admired that it was willing to actually take a chance and do something edgy and potentially offensive in the pursuit of humor, whereas The Simpsons had long since gotten used to playing on the "safe" side of The Line (and was never bad, but never often good anymore as a result).

But from Season 9 onward . . . I don't know. It felt like McFarlane was just trying to see how far he could push the show before Fox would push back and cancel it for a third time. Rather than getting funny and edgy, it often just ended up getting "tasteless" and offensive.

 

[Nicole Maronn]

I do enjoy Family Guy myself, especially when it was brought back from cancellation. Just like Bob pointed out, the first three seasons weren't that great, but once Season 4 began, the show did get better. While the show does often take jokes too far, both on an offensive level and an annoyance level, I personally love it when it takes risks to develop characters or tackle a serious subject without relaying on juvenile humor.

For example, one of my most favorite episodes from Family Guy involves Stewie and Brain being locked up in a bank vault for the weekend. While this episode does resort to using gross-out and violent humor, the strength of that episode is about how both characters come to a mutual understanding with each other and eventually develop a closer relationship (a "bromance" if you want to call it). While both Brain and Stewie are my favorite characters (and their episodes that feature the both of them are always gems), this particular episode is my favorite for the reasons I stated above: it helped me grow to love these two characters even more and proves that despite Family Guy can be too much blue collar for it's own good, the creative team behind it can put out a decent and heart-felt episode.