I always thought it was a sort of love/hate frustration with him, that yeah, his movies are that bad, but they're interesting enough to talk about, and so close to blockbuster masterpieces if he'd tone his amps down from 11. Let us compare, for academia, the public opinion of M. Bay vs Uwe Boll. Boll doesn't get near the attention Bay gets, but if you ask most people who is worse, Boll will probably get the vote if they remember any of his works. Bay still gets more negative attention, and it's as this video says, but also a bit of it is academic reviews of film school buffs who want credibility and notoriety that are self-publishing just to try to sound like they're professionals with only a semester of film theory and little practical work in their belt.
The Big Picture: Leave Michael Bay Alone
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I literally just said "oh snap" after the video ended because I can't believe Bob just did that and I'm in complete agreement with him. And in all honesty if we are going the fast food route I don't mind having french fries served to me every now and again. Yes Bay does have his own style which personally I think, as an artist, if you can get a style to stick with an audience to the point that they know what your art is you are doing something right. You can debate good vs. bad all you want but if your style is out there and people know it and remember it then I believe you have succeeded as an artist. Yes people would be inclined to not call Michael Bay and artist but let's face it. He is. Films are defined as art, he makes films, therefore he is an artist and I can never fault him for making a name for himself as an artist. That is our goal in the end. Make art people enjoy and have our names be remembered through that art. I'm hoping one day that my name will be remembered for making a certain kind of video game.
Just keep doing what you are doing Mr. Bay. I'd never ask an artist to change his/her style because some people don't agree with it.
Just keep doing what you are doing Mr. Bay. I'd never ask an artist to change his/her style because some people don't agree with it.
Bravo! Finally someone has the "cojones" to flat-out state what has been patently obvious for so many years: that the normal Joe and Jane moviegoer in the USA has the sophisticated taste of fried chicken-strips! The reason why more quality films are not being made is because they are not profitable, they only serve a niche market, and the bulk of the audience just wants either a feel-good movie/chick-flick/horror movie/action movie with big explosions (i.e., turning off their brains and "enjoying the ride"). Thanks Bob for calling bull$hit on the industry, and its "consumers" thereto.
Not sure if someone in the previous 142 pages said this because time but...
What about the ever present discussion, by you inclusive Bob, about Bay's lack of shot framing, disguised by frantic editing? I'd always understood that to be the major critical knock on his aesthetic.
What about the ever present discussion, by you inclusive Bob, about Bay's lack of shot framing, disguised by frantic editing? I'd always understood that to be the major critical knock on his aesthetic.
I think a Redbox rental would be good. It does start to feel long but I will say when the Dino bots show up it is another sign that Michael Bay really isn't a hack at directing action. The shots are all well edited and mostly still so you can see the action. The choreography is great and they actually make splendid use of the Dino bots size and unique characteristics. Hell he even figured out the final fight. The final fight with Lockdown is an actual fight with Optimus, Bumblebee, and even the humans all trying to bring him down. Not a 3 second finishing move like he did in the last three movies. He is no hack. He knows what he's doing.Keji Goto said:
I went and saw the most recent one. It was better than the previous two because they weren't afraid to fodderize humans in the crossfire (because humans suck u.u). It would have been better if he reduced the movie by like an hour. Kinda overstayed its welcome. They did megatron's rebirth kinda poorly. Also glad they got rid of shia.
Oh I remember back when you grilled audiences for choosing The Expendables over Scott Pilgrim vs The World.
It was the first time I was legitimately miffed at what you said; you broke the cardinal rule of reviewing, to never equate the movie and its audience. Oh how naive of me to think Hackywood would get better; today I've come to embrace the entropy and blame the audience.
They've killed cinema for me; I don't want to watch movies anymore because it's all so similar. Trailers look the same, sound the same, are cut the same...pointless reboots and remakes over-saturate the showings list week after week, month after month, year after year (especially last year, though 2013 is a banner year for low standards going to cinema).
So towards one end, I will agree with you Bob: It's tiring.
I'm tired of hearing about Michael Bay. I'm tired of seeing Michael Bay films, especially when they aren't produced by Michael Bay. I'm tired of Hackywood, to the point where it is nothing short of miraculous that I see more than two films a year in cinema, let alone one I legitimately LOVE. I'm burnt out. I'm done. Movies have become sources of disappointment frustration and boredom rather than (intentional) entertainment for me.
It was the first time I was legitimately miffed at what you said; you broke the cardinal rule of reviewing, to never equate the movie and its audience. Oh how naive of me to think Hackywood would get better; today I've come to embrace the entropy and blame the audience.
They've killed cinema for me; I don't want to watch movies anymore because it's all so similar. Trailers look the same, sound the same, are cut the same...pointless reboots and remakes over-saturate the showings list week after week, month after month, year after year (especially last year, though 2013 is a banner year for low standards going to cinema).
So towards one end, I will agree with you Bob: It's tiring.
I'm tired of hearing about Michael Bay. I'm tired of seeing Michael Bay films, especially when they aren't produced by Michael Bay. I'm tired of Hackywood, to the point where it is nothing short of miraculous that I see more than two films a year in cinema, let alone one I legitimately LOVE. I'm burnt out. I'm done. Movies have become sources of disappointment frustration and boredom rather than (intentional) entertainment for me.
The actual reason people "hate" Michael Bay? It's because he FORCES the audience to feel things. Near the end of his movies, we will inevitably be treated to a montage of slow-mo, low-angle, shots of family and all-that's-good with evocative music playing in the background. We are wired to respond to that stimulus, and even though our minds are saying "This movie is garbage, why am I ?"...we'll still be feeling deeply during an otherwise mindless movie that has done nothing to deserve that level of emotional engagement.
No one likes being manipulated. Michael Bay is shameless (and really, really good) at manipulating us. THAT is why we all hate Michael Bay.
No one likes being manipulated. Michael Bay is shameless (and really, really good) at manipulating us. THAT is why we all hate Michael Bay.
You ask why Michael Bay's the seemingly singular target for why "movies are bad" and "Hollywood has gone down the drain"? You then listed all his supposed crimes, while also listing the same grievances shared by other film makers? That's exactly why Bay is the cumulative punching bag for the critics.
It's not that he shares these faults, it's that he has ALL of the them in almost every movie he makes; the Transformers movies only highlight this because he's gone on record as not really caring about the material so he does whatever with it.
When he wants to (Pain & Gain the prime example) he can make great movies what, while encapsulating what are commonly his cinematic crutches, also are used to punctuate whatever story element he's aiming for. But he doesn't try often. While his schlock is popular and money making for the average movie goer, who will often say they only go to the movies to be entertained and not think hard, and that brainlessness is what leads to more of the same, that doesn't mean that he is blameless for presenting the material. Popular doesn't mean good, and fun doesn't mean meaningful.
Your equalization of Bay just passing the fries to the person is false; he's not passing the fries, he's the one who made and seasoned them for prime fattening.
It's not that he shares these faults, it's that he has ALL of the them in almost every movie he makes; the Transformers movies only highlight this because he's gone on record as not really caring about the material so he does whatever with it.
When he wants to (Pain & Gain the prime example) he can make great movies what, while encapsulating what are commonly his cinematic crutches, also are used to punctuate whatever story element he's aiming for. But he doesn't try often. While his schlock is popular and money making for the average movie goer, who will often say they only go to the movies to be entertained and not think hard, and that brainlessness is what leads to more of the same, that doesn't mean that he is blameless for presenting the material. Popular doesn't mean good, and fun doesn't mean meaningful.
Your equalization of Bay just passing the fries to the person is false; he's not passing the fries, he's the one who made and seasoned them for prime fattening.
So, Michael Bay's fans are essentially the same people who go to Tyler Perry movies?
I honestly think that Trans4mers was the worst of the franchise then again I've seen people praise the movie because Shia Lebouf wasn't in it as if he was the only problem.You're right Bob, people are dumb which is why Call of Duty can be a huge hit every year.
I honestly think that Trans4mers was the worst of the franchise then again I've seen people praise the movie because Shia Lebouf wasn't in it as if he was the only problem.You're right Bob, people are dumb which is why Call of Duty can be a huge hit every year.
Err..Bob, you just basically admitted Bay is the singularity of awfululness, that he embodies the worst parts of every filmmaker, and that just because other people do one of the bad things he does, it excuses him for doing them all simultaneously
I'm sorry Bob, but did you notice you just used one of those arguments you can apply to everything and blame the general public? From politics to every single kind of consumer product.
Sure, the fault is in the consumer. It always kinda sorta is. But we (mostly) live in capitalism where the consumer is the one doing the downward dog most of the time, so maybe, faced with a choice of placing the blame on the few and placing the blame on the millions, the problem is with the few, because it's a couple million times easier for them to change, than for those millions of random people.
In short, commercial success does not alleviate the responsibility of a creator.
As for MB though, yeah, he's a public effigy for all things "Hollywood" about Hollywood. Not all fault of the cinematic universe lies with him. However, there is a reason he was chosen to be 'the one' and my guess would be one of the options you've offered - he hits the nail on the head with a lot of things Hollywood does wrong. Making commercially successful movies is only another nail when coupled with the rest, rather than a plus.
Sure, the fault is in the consumer. It always kinda sorta is. But we (mostly) live in capitalism where the consumer is the one doing the downward dog most of the time, so maybe, faced with a choice of placing the blame on the few and placing the blame on the millions, the problem is with the few, because it's a couple million times easier for them to change, than for those millions of random people.
In short, commercial success does not alleviate the responsibility of a creator.
As for MB though, yeah, he's a public effigy for all things "Hollywood" about Hollywood. Not all fault of the cinematic universe lies with him. However, there is a reason he was chosen to be 'the one' and my guess would be one of the options you've offered - he hits the nail on the head with a lot of things Hollywood does wrong. Making commercially successful movies is only another nail when coupled with the rest, rather than a plus.
People go to loud, stupid movies for the same reason people stick M-80's in water bottles: the simple act of exploding things stimulates the pleasure center like a courtesan made of opium.
We, the general public, go to movies like these to relax. We have lives, and families, and stupid, stupid jobs where we deal with shitheel customers on a regular basis. A nice, uncomplicated film about robots punching each other in the face is appealing. Sure you get films that have crossover appeal, ones that houghty-toughty film buffs and average Joe both enjoy like Inception or The Dark Knight Saga.
I think Bay realizes what he is and exploits that t its' fullest potential. He knows that he makes stupid, but fun to watch movies, and he knows that he's the studio's money making machine. So he makes what he thinks would be cool to watch, and gets payed a mint for it.
We, the general public, go to movies like these to relax. We have lives, and families, and stupid, stupid jobs where we deal with shitheel customers on a regular basis. A nice, uncomplicated film about robots punching each other in the face is appealing. Sure you get films that have crossover appeal, ones that houghty-toughty film buffs and average Joe both enjoy like Inception or The Dark Knight Saga.
I think Bay realizes what he is and exploits that t its' fullest potential. He knows that he makes stupid, but fun to watch movies, and he knows that he's the studio's money making machine. So he makes what he thinks would be cool to watch, and gets payed a mint for it.
STUNT DAWGS!
That cartoon series barely gets any mention, I watched it a lot when I was a kid, it was fun. Didn't expect to see it pop up!
You guys remember Stunt Dawgs right?
...
Right?
...
*sigh*
It's at 4:34, Bob shows a pic of the main antagonist from Stunt Dawgs, he's a director who's cry is "Lights! Camera! Mayhem!!!" Overall, it's a great choice.
That cartoon series barely gets any mention, I watched it a lot when I was a kid, it was fun. Didn't expect to see it pop up!
You guys remember Stunt Dawgs right?
...
Right?
...
*sigh*
It's at 4:34, Bob shows a pic of the main antagonist from Stunt Dawgs, he's a director who's cry is "Lights! Camera! Mayhem!!!" Overall, it's a great choice.
Should I refer to your review of '2012' in which you explained EXACTLY why Michael Bay sucks.
"It's simple, good film-making verses bad film-making"
Everyone that hates Michael Bay movies (including I) hates them because someone else would have done it better. We all know his movies are made for 'the masses', a majority of which aren't movie buffs like us. They see a movie maybe once a month and watch a movie at home maybe twice a week; whereas we regularly go once a week and watch movies every day.
The problem with his movies are because they are bloated and you can't tell what's going on half the time. If they had a different director with the same screenplay then it probably would have ended up being a better movie. Less 'loud' and more heartfelt. With that said, The Island is a pretty good movie (ignoring the terrible action scenes) and Pain & Gain wasn't too bad.
Maybe Michael Bay should stop trying to one-up his action movies by 'adding more action than the last movie' and focus on two or three action set-pieces that are memorable and well-thought-out instead of generic, mind-numbing explosions everywhere.
"It's simple, good film-making verses bad film-making"
Everyone that hates Michael Bay movies (including I) hates them because someone else would have done it better. We all know his movies are made for 'the masses', a majority of which aren't movie buffs like us. They see a movie maybe once a month and watch a movie at home maybe twice a week; whereas we regularly go once a week and watch movies every day.
The problem with his movies are because they are bloated and you can't tell what's going on half the time. If they had a different director with the same screenplay then it probably would have ended up being a better movie. Less 'loud' and more heartfelt. With that said, The Island is a pretty good movie (ignoring the terrible action scenes) and Pain & Gain wasn't too bad.
Maybe Michael Bay should stop trying to one-up his action movies by 'adding more action than the last movie' and focus on two or three action set-pieces that are memorable and well-thought-out instead of generic, mind-numbing explosions everywhere.
Plenty of us have been saying exactly that for years. It is also the same problem in the game industry. And the comic industry. And every other media industry. And society as a whole.Keji Goto said:
And when we do, people like Bob tell us to fuck off. Until they produce a video doing exactly the same thing, and pass this off as somehow being their own personal enlightenment from the universe. Then this becomes the Absolute Truth.
Until one of us points out that consumers are the reason we have shitty media. Then they tell us to fuck off again.
If there's one thing the recent Transformers films has taught me it's that the franchise as a whole will survive as long as there is an audience that feels drawn to the nostalgic core of what Transformers is. That won't last, of course, as our generation gets old and new generations spring up with their own hobbies and passions. That's fine.
If nothing else, the backlash against Bay's work has rekindled the love my generation had for the Transformers and I get to watch more of that show than I ever got as a kid. And not just the old stuff. New shows, video games, and more toys. The love I have for Transformers lives on, content and glutted on the sheer amount of choice I have to indulge in my geeky love for the franchise.
If nothing else, the backlash against Bay's work has rekindled the love my generation had for the Transformers and I get to watch more of that show than I ever got as a kid. And not just the old stuff. New shows, video games, and more toys. The love I have for Transformers lives on, content and glutted on the sheer amount of choice I have to indulge in my geeky love for the franchise.