The Big Picture: Leave Michael Bay Alone

[Netrigan]

And even though I enjoy these movies, I do find it extremely hard to articulate why I like them. I know I shouldn't, but he keeps hitting pleasure centers in my brain.

It's like when you try that weird flavor of potato chips and even though you know it tastes awful, you just can't stop eating them

 

[Netrigan]

Only problem I have with this is that you call people going to see stupid robot movies a problem. I'm really not sure in what context it's supposed to be one.

I think that does illustrate how easily this kind of thing can be turned around onto things you love.

Alan Moore (comic legend, wizard, mall Santa, Rasputin impersonator) is among a fairly sizable group of people who think our enjoyment of super-hero movies is infantile. After The Avengers made its billions, there were any number of articles from film critics who said much the same thing, lamenting how such low-brow entertainment has high-jacked the medium and we are doomed to a succession of adolescent super-hero fantasies because of it.

It's just a quick step away from coming up with some "theory" about how you're all stunted men-children who immerse yourself in juvenile entertainment to escape the reality of growing up... and that means you are what's wrong with the world today.

 

[Coruptin]

Doubt I will go see the new Transformers in theaters, just Redbox it later when it comes out. Seems to be the best way to enjoy his films in my opinion.

the transformers movies are dumb idiot cartoon thrill rides, unless you have an amazing home theater system i'd say imax is the best way to enjoy them

and before anyone lambastes me for calling something a dumb idiot cartoon,
that is not a criticism for me. it's okay for things to be dumb idiot cartoons. yes, i think your favorite anime is a dumb idiot cartoon too. yes, i think my favorite cartoons are dumb idiot cartoons. please stop being so insecure about your hobbies and interests.

 

[briankoontz]

The world is dying, so there's no point to high culture anymore - the point throughout history was that high culture was improving society - that was it's supposed, or potential, value. That value is gone, it's worse than gone since the failure of high culture itself is part of the REASON the world is dying. Mr. Chipman's statement that Bay films are slop lapped up by pigs is ridiculous.

Shakespeare's 450th birthday was recently celebrated. Almost noone in the world noticed, despite Shakespeare remaining relatively popular today. The reason is obvious - Shakespeare doesn't have long left to live.

The importance of culture is tied directly to human life on the planet. Even if we don't place part of the blame for the dying earth on high culture itself and turn on that high culture, which Mr. Chipman's "pigs" have done, we still need to recognize the reality that culture relies upon humans to RECEIVE it. It relies upon relatively wealthy humans to receive it, as the fairly uncultured near-starving people in the world can tell you. As the world dies and becomes impoverished only the "escape the earth" dragons will lay any claim to culture, and those monsters are not worthy of emulation.

It's not Bob Chipman who's smarter than regular people, it's regular people who are smarter than Bob Chipman. They are smart enough to realize that Michael Bay is entertaining, and in a dying world that's all that can be achieved.

The only way to make Bob Chipman's dream of the triumph of high culture come true is to stop the world from dying. Once that happens Shakespeare can live for centuries more, and new Shakespeares can come along. At that point REGULAR PEOPLE will appreciate high culture, as long as that culture serves their interests. For the most part it has not in the past, with a few exceptions.

The logic of death differs drastically from the logic of life. The logic of life is self-improvement and improvement of the world. The logic of death is fantasy, spectacle, and saving itself from death.

The people Bob Chipman mocks understand reality and are helpless to do anything about it. Bob Chipman doesn't understand reality and therefore *can't* do anything about it.

 

[Urameshi13]

Haven't you conjectured before that Bay thinks humanity kind of sucks as a whole? What if all of his movies is him fulfilling his own opinion?

 

[Powerman88]

Wow nice job MB. What an Ayn Rand-ian thought! People are afraid of great because it is scary and challenging. People only want good (or bad) because it is safe and familiar.

 

[Metalrocks]

bay is certainly not the best director out there but compared to uwe boll, i give bay an oscar any time of the year.

i sure enjoyed the rock, bad boys 1 and 2, so as armageddon. havent seen pain&gain but i sure will get the dvd eventually. transformers are just mindless but entertaining movies. isnt that what we are mainly going to the movies for? to be entertained? having stuff getting blown up can be amusing. i mean, isnt shoot 'em up also an over the top action flick with not really a great story? and yet, it was entertaining in its own way.

here in hong kong the cinemas are full for the new transformers. also maybe because half of the movie does play in hong kong but even when i watched part 3, the cinemas were full. but they also advertise about it like mad. toys, even on product like buying a tv or so.
hell, even yesterday when i was in a shopping mall, they had a huge bumble bee statue.

 

[Gerardo Vazquez]

I think the main reason I specifically hate Micheal Bay(and by extension Bryan Singer, and Mark Webb to a lesser degree) is because they aren't just making ANY bad movie, they're making bad movies out of properties I like, and the continued success of those bad movies prevents the creation of better movies from those same franchises. If Micheal Bay just walked away from Transformers all of my animosity towards him would pretty much vanish.

 

[Nurb]

If you want the Michael Bay "aesthetic", watch the video while holding down the F11 key

 

[Baresark]

Holy shit... that is one of the most honest and mature episodes I have seen. Michael Bay is not the antithesis of anything, he isn't the anti-art or the destroy of childhood things. He is just a guy who makes movies with lots of explosions and usually great special effects. He isn't a master film maker, but he should stop being in the cross hairs of every art critic wannabe simply because you can find things you don't like about his movies. That is most movies, for the record. But when Bay does it, it's worse somehow? Gimme a break.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Everything Bob has said in this video is what I've been talking about for the past YEAR - it's largely the audience (i.e. consumers) which drive the market, decide what's popular, keep trends afloat, etc. Devs and directors can only create an idea and throw it out there - if consumers don't buy the product (or not in large enough numbers), there's a good chance it will be abandoned. However if consumers DO buy that product in the millions, then all attempts will be made by the dev/director to expand on that idea and beat all possible profit out of it. Other devs/directors will also observe the success of that idea and try to tap-into it.

Thus trends and tropes are born.

The exact same thing applies to the whole "sexism issue" in games and other media - audience is largely responsible for driving the trends and tropes you see today. They have all been popularized and KEPT that way by the audience. Devs only initially threw out the idea "hey, want sexy skimpy ladies in your game?" and "hey, want to play as a male protagonist?" and the answer was a big fat "YES PLEASE" by the consumers (in terms of answering with their wallets), and thus the snowball grew into an avalanche.

So instead of SJW's waiting for the opportunity to spit fire at devs and content creators, turn around and spit fire at the people who buy these things instead.

Go fuck yourself Bob, the audience is not the problem.

The audience decided to pay to watch those movies in masses and literally FUNDED (by a factor of multiples actually) all the sequels + marketing.

We did not decide to make these movies, we did not decide to desecrate childhood icons, Bay did.

We don't make movies at all. We decide whether to watch them or not.

The only thing we are responsible for is not knowing how to torrent this shit before we actually decide to spent money on it. But as more old people who don't know computers die off this changes.

FYI, high-quality DVD's are not released on the same day as the cinema release, and therefore the only torrents you'll find are CAM rips - what's the point of watching a Transformers movie on potato-cam with non-existent audio quality?
People will pay to watch the proper version in cinemas and IMAX.

Not to mention most of the Transformers audience are people aged 8-30, so out of the general audience base these people would be more likely to be aware of torrenting than audiences of other movies.

Your post doesn't make any sense : /

 

[Moeez]

People go to loud, stupid movies for the same reason people stick M-80's in water bottles: the simple act of exploding things stimulates the pleasure center like a courtesan made of opium.

We, the general public, go to movies like these to relax. We have lives, and families, and stupid, stupid jobs where we deal with shitheel customers on a regular basis. A nice, uncomplicated film about robots punching each other in the face is appealing. Sure you get films that have crossover appeal, ones that houghty-toughty film buffs and average Joe both enjoy like Inception or The Dark Knight Saga.

I think Bay realizes what he is and exploits that t its' fullest potential. He knows that he makes stupid, but fun to watch movies, and he knows that he's the studio's money making machine. So he makes what he thinks would be cool to watch, and gets payed a mint for it.

I don't buy that these Transformers movies are "uncomplicated". The plots are needlessly convoluted, just watch Bob's review of Age Of Extinction. They're ridiculously long. I don't see how these movies are conducive to the general public.

What's uncomplicated action movies that I happen to like?

The Raid

Dredd

And yet Age of Extinction has an A- Cinemascore. I think we need to try to understand why that is. Apparently, the marketing push was incredible with $175 million only used for corporate brand partners like GM Chevrolet and Oreo Cookies, Big Red soda, Valero gas stations and Western Star trucks: http://nikkifinke.com/transformers-age-extinction-starts-weekend-worldwide/

 

[Strazdas]

I dont hate michael Bay. i hate what he does. And i think he is a genius to sell so well his awful products. I know i sure couldnt do that.

See, when you take one item at a time that he does, yes you can find other directors do these mistakes. However none of them manage to mix these together in such a manner as to still get slipped behind the summer blocbuster title. hes a genius of making bad movies popular. and for that, i kind of respect him.

As far as "we are the problem", i think this was the smartest thing i hear bob ever say.

FYI, high-quality DVD's are not released on the same day as the cinema release, and therefore the only torrents you'll find are CAM rips - what's the point of watching a Transformers movie on potato-cam with non-existent audio quality?
People will pay to watch the proper version in cinemas and IMAX.

id say a large reason of WHY people pirate these movies is because we cant buy good quality ones. and DVD is hardly good quality, we have cam rips way above DVD quality. this is because DVD uses antequated mpeg2 codec. which was good when it was designed, is horrible now. give me blue ray on day 1 and ill buy A LOT of them. dont and ill forget about the movie in those 6 months it takes you to release it. and no, i dont want to watch a movie when i have to drive there for an hour and then listen to teens giggle behind me throughout, so i wont go to the cinema. not to mention extortionate prices.

 

[roski]

Blaming Bay is just as easy as blaming the pigs, maybe you'll apologize to them in the future, or maybe not, because they represent a faceless, unaware mass. So I guess blaming them is even easier.
And then counting yourself amongst the rubble, that's just a demagogic cherry to top off a lovely fallacy flavored ice cream.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Michael Bay is the Leni Riefenstahl of our generation.

I don't remember Reifenstahl ever being called the 'death of cinema.' When people persecuted her it was because of political beliefs that she might not have actually possessed. Not to mention, she also had faaaaaaaaaar better cinematic track record than Michael Bay has ever had.

OT: I agree completely Bob, good show. I mean, I personally think it's a little humorous that this argument is coming from a website whose community seems to think it's 'above' the 'Bayformers' crowd, but will still eat up everything in regards to the worlds most expensive saturday morning cartoon series (AKA: the Marvel Studios films) like it's candied crystal meth, but that's a discussion for another time.

To be fair, the Marvel movies have a good amount of plot without being a drain, the action is snappy, well shot and we have investments to it. The Bayformer movies are just action with no structure.

To use a biology metaphor, the Bayformer movies are simple sponges, action with no structure or brain behind it. The marvel movies are like birds or fish, they have the muscle of action but they also have a plot skeleton and some brain behind the action

Edit: isn't Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will considered a brilliant film in it's cinematography and camera work?

 

[Banzaiman]

As always, I know no one cares about what I think, but I'm going to say it anyway.

I don't buy that we are all responsible for the 'poor quality' of movies and media in general these days. That isn't to say I disagree with the point Bob is making, I actually wholeheartedly agree. However, we are not all equally responsible for every movie that comes out and neither are we all the reason for these movies being bad. After all, we didn't all go out to see the Transformers movies.

The real 'problem' if you can call it that is the wildly different types of audiences that are out there. There is no general public or public audience, there are numerous audiences each after a certain thing. Just like Bob said in the video, the reason why Michael Bey is so horribly hated by everyone is because so many different audiences can find something to hate in his productions. We all hate him, but for different reasons.

And that is why movies like these are so popular.

Because with all the bitching and moaning you hear from allegedly everyone, there is an audience for this kind of thing and they are the reason more of them are being made - they pay to see it, and they'll pay to see more. But there are also audiences who very much don't don't don't like Bey's movies, as you can see above. There will never be a perfect movie industry - or any industry for that matter - because we all want something different out of our product. There will be product that you don't like, as there will be product you love that someone else hates. You might hate that slop, but obviously someone else loves it. And I can always go for some more fries.

Oh, and please don't try to bring up objective quality. That's a whole different - though admittedly related - debate.

Chin up for those of you who do hate the Bey movies, however, because we live in a world where change is the norm. It might take a few years, it might be a few decades, but eventually these movies will fade just as they manifested. I'm with you, by the way, in that I'm hoping more "intelligent" movies will be made and more audiences will be happy with those too and more dissatisfied with the ones like Bey's Transformers. We can do our part to hurry up the process, but please, don't hate your fellow human beings for liking what you don't. I know how hard it is not to.

 

[cathou]

The people who watch Michael Bay movies also enjoy Community, Arrested Development, Game of Thrones, CSI, NCIS, The Goonies, Citizen Kane, Troll 2, love KISS both ironically and unironically, hate KISS, think Goldeneye is the greatest video game ever, think Call of Duty is the greatest game ever, think Halo is the greatest game ever, love Citizen Kane, never saw Citizen Kane, thought Sucker Punch was brilliant, thought Sucker Punch was garbage, and on and on.

They just like the movie. That's all. It signifies nothing more than the ability to enjoy a big dumb action movie that is made by Michael Bay. They're brilliant, they're stupid, they're every point in between.

We do this every time something is a success that we don't personally enjoy; we try to discredit the people who enjoy it as if they're some mass of folks who signify everything that is wrong with the world , forgetting that the numbers are so huge that they permeate every level of society. They're the same kind of people who made Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark classic films. They're same people who (statistically speaking) embraced Dark Knight and rejected Green Lantern. They're just people who wanted to see giant robots punch each other while stuff 'sploded.

exactly what i was thinking. and i understand it more than ever before now that i'm a mom. i used to go to the movie theatre twice a week, and rent 3 or 4 movies per day. with a 3 months baby and a 1 and half daughter, i've been to moie theatre 3 time this year. and i rent a few movies per week, but with the kids, the job, the house to keep clean and my other activities, i'm Lucky if i have actual time to watch them. do i want to see an intelligent slow paced movie thriller when i manage to go to the movie theatre ? hell no, i want to see something that is Worth watching on a big screen, an experience that i wont have back home, so bring out the explosions, and kill my brain cells with stupidity because that's what i want. i've paid 28$ for two tickets, 6$ for a popcorn, and my babysiter will cost me another 40 or 50$. that's almost 100$ for one movie. i'll choose a transformer movie, no matter how bad it is over a movie like monuments men, which is very good, but i'll rent it later.

beside i kind of fed up with people that always rent against blockbuster movies made for the masses. i like movies, i like all kind of movies, including big explosion dumb movies, because sometimes i'm just in a mood for that. some people have to stop thinking that the fringe of the population who goes to specialized forums, and that know more that the average joe about movies represent a majority. it doesnt. the same people ask every year why there's another call of duty comming out, that "real gamers" dont play them anymore. it's because hardcore gamers are not the majority of people that play games, they just thing they are the only one that count, which is elitism at it best

 

[Peaceful Winter]

Finally a serious film critic is saying the truth about who is to blame for the current state of the movie industry. I wonder how long it will take for the video game critics to start blaming the real culprits for the oversaturation of "brown and gray" shooters on the market.

 

[Something Amyss]

Finally a serious film critic is saying the truth about who is to blame for the current state of the movie industry. I wonder how long it will take for the video game critics to start blaming the real culprits for the oversaturation of "brown and gray" shooters on the market.

They already are? I mean, it's no secret that these games sell because they're popular. It's a trite, shallow point and might have been "telling it like it is" a decade ago, but not now.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

I dont hate michael Bay. i hate what he does. And i think he is a genius to sell so well his awful products. I know i sure couldnt do that.

See, when you take one item at a time that he does, yes you can find other directors do these mistakes. However none of them manage to mix these together in such a manner as to still get slipped behind the summer blocbuster title. hes a genius of making bad movies popular. and for that, i kind of respect him.

As far as "we are the problem", i think this was the smartest thing i hear bob ever say.

FYI, high-quality DVD's are not released on the same day as the cinema release, and therefore the only torrents you'll find are CAM rips - what's the point of watching a Transformers movie on potato-cam with non-existent audio quality?
People will pay to watch the proper version in cinemas and IMAX.

id say a large reason of WHY people pirate these movies is because we cant buy good quality ones. and DVD is hardly good quality, we have cam rips way above DVD quality. this is because DVD uses antequated mpeg2 codec. which was good when it was designed, is horrible now. give me blue ray on day 1 and ill buy A LOT of them. dont and ill forget about the movie in those 6 months it takes you to release it. and no, i dont want to watch a movie when i have to drive there for an hour and then listen to teens giggle behind me throughout, so i wont go to the cinema. not to mention extortionate prices.

Whoops yeah I meant 1080p bluray, not DVD lol. Movies like Transformers pretty much exist to be played at 1080p minimum.

To be honest the only reason cinemas are even relevant in this era (where a large percentage of people own huge TVs and surround sound) is because the bluray release is delayed for weeks/months. And the only reason bluray is delayed is because the moment someone gets their hands on one it goes straight onto the internet and makes torrent sites explode. If 1080p copies were released on day 1 then movie studios/etc would lose a HUGE portion of their revenue. Last I heard something like 70-80% of their money is made in first 2 weeks of being in cinema. The money coming from purchased bluray copies is almost nothing compared to the money coming from the cinema.
Not to mention the appeal of bluray/DVD collections is dying as hard drives have become significantly cheaper over the last decade, 1TB can easily hold something like 150-200+ 1080p movies (encoded efficiently of course, 50gb raws are a pain ).

Cinemas wouldn't exactly turn into ghost towns (especially not Imax) because there's still a certain thrill to get out of watching stuff on a 40 foot screen surrounded by 15+ booming speakers, something that just can't be achieved at home. A few people will still pay for it.
But yeah, overall Hollywood would lose a huge chunk of revenue and it could mean disaster.

So bluray release will continue to be delayed by weeks/months for the foreseeable future. Cinemas absolutely have to stay relevant. I can't think of any other way Hollywood turn a profit after blowing $100-200 million on making such movies.

Anyway Transformers is far from the only movie series to which all this applies to.