The Big Picture: Link Be A Lady

[INeedAName]

If they did make Link a woman, would they make Zelda a man? I mean, in some of the games, there's a romantic tension between the two. Of course, they could simply omit that for the theoretical installment, or, more interestingly, keep it and have lesbian undertones for the game. Two birds with one stone. Would THAT make the game industry drop its jaw or what?

 

[Rellik San]

Also, CDProjekt are Polish devs, not like the US-dominant game devs who make the majority of "burly white dude" game's protagonists. Cultural variation does make a difference, and since they're one of the few prominent Eastern European devs out there, I don't think they deserve as much crap as say Activision does for their constant lack of well-written female protagonists.

Also worthy note, the Witcher is adapted from a series of fantasy novels, so staying true to the source material is a concern there, that said, no reason other stories in that world couldn't be told from a womans perspective and it's not like it doesn't have it's fair share of strong female characters... who shockingly of all, whilst yes, work as sexual motivation, actually instigate the sex themselves and it's seen not specifically as a connection, but as something that is simply pleasurable for both parties... WAAAAAAAH?! Strong, female leads, who not only instigate sex at their behest not the leads but also don't play it up as either something noble or a chaste act... who actually play it as just a thing people do? Crazy, that would never work, no one would want that in their video games.

All in all, good episode Bob, as for a choice in Links, yeah I wouldn't mind playing a female Link, I think it'd suit his fighting style a lot more and it literally would just have to be a model swap as the animations are already quite lithe and athletic.

 

[Arqus_Zed]

Wait...

Wait wait wait...

You mean to tell me... Link is a guy?! And always has been?! Seriously?!

All these years... Oh God! And I've got all these magazines and... Oh God!!! This is the Zidane Tribal thing all over again!

Joking aside, I still don't care for the Legend of Zelda games, though the overflow of "realistic, gruff, Caucasian males" at E3 made me long for the PS1/PS2-era of gaming (Spyro, Crash, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Kya, Kay, Vexx, etc.)

 

[LazyAza]

I was hoping female link was a thing this time as well, sucks that it isn't but who knows maybe said discussion will cause Nintendo to decide to actually do that this time around.

The assassins creed thing continues to be laughable as jim well pointed out in his vid this week. Really wish big companies would wake the fuck up to the modern world already. Gender equality is becoming a huger and huger deal as time roles on, in recent years gaining so much momentum and vocal outcry I'm going to really pity any company that forcibly and lazily sticks to the tired "lets just make a game about a gruff white dood again" schtick.

The sooner I get the equivalent of a motoko kusinagi as a protag in a game the better.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Also, CDProjekt are Polish devs, not like the US-dominant game devs who make the majority of "burly white dude" game's protagonists. Cultural variation does make a difference, and since they're one of the few prominent Eastern European devs out there, I don't think they deserve as much crap as say Activision does for their constant lack of well-written female protagonists.

Also worthy note, the Witcher is adapted from a series of fantasy novels, so staying true to the source material is a concern there, that said, no reason other stories in that world couldn't be told from a womans perspective and it's not like it doesn't have it's fair share of strong female characters... who shockingly of all, whilst yes, work as sexual motivation, actually instigate the sex themselves and it's seen not specifically as a connection, but as something that is simply pleasurable for both parties... WAAAAAAAH?! Strong, female leads, who not only instigate sex at their behest not the leads but also don't play it up as either something noble or a chaste act... who actually play it as just a thing people do? Crazy, that would never work, no one would want that in their video games.

All in all, good episode Bob, as for a choice in Links, yeah I wouldn't mind playing a female Link, I think it'd suit his fighting style a lot more and it literally would just have to be a model swap as the animations are already quite lithe and athletic.

That is a legitimate point, in which case, I wish Bob wouldn't just generalise things.

I feel that once The Witcher Trilogy is done, (and Cyberpunk 2077), they can easily revisit that game, perhaps from the perspective of Ciri, because of how much potential her abilities allow(in terms of prospective stories).

 

[MrMan999]

You know, I would love to see a Zelda game with a female protagonist. But I would prefer if it was Zelda and not a female Link. Mostly because playing as Zelda could result in some very interesting gameplay options. Badass Ninja skills, Archery Magic, and an increased emphasis on puzzle solving. It could be pretty cool.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

I made the point last time this subject came up that the LoZ mythology lends itself perfectly to simply incarnating Link as a female with no real complications.

The quite frankly baffling backlash I got was that since Link has always been male it's somehow established that Link always has to be male.


To be sure I think that it would be a welcome change, but I think that it needs to come with a certain degree of additional work if it's going to be anything other than a gender flip "stunt."
In other words, the first time Link shows up as a lady, the game needs to be one of the few times within the series that Link is given more personality than the gawping "Let's save Hyrule because...reasons" protagonist that he usually is.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

as far as "no one has ever taken a male lead and made them female before." I cite Starbuck and Boomer in the RDM version of Battlestar Galactica. both male characters in the original, re-imagined as women in the update.

Battlestar Galactica isn't exactly what I would call "mainstream". When Bob said "no one", what he meant was "no one with widespread appeal even outside of the nerd culture." The Battlestar Galactica case can make for a decent example, sure, but the series itself just doesn't have the mainstream appeal for anything they do to "make a statement" in the same way as something like Zelda.

 

[Flatfrog]

If they did make Link a woman, would they make Zelda a man? I mean, in some of the games, there's a romantic tension between the two. Of course, they could simply omit that for the theoretical installment, or, more interestingly, keep it and have lesbian undertones for the game. Two birds with one stone. Would THAT make the game industry drop its jaw or what?

Either option would be kind of cool, but on balance I think the idea of a female character rescuing a male would be the more radical.

I remember watching a documentary on the TV series of Wonder Woman, with several people pointing out how brave it was for the guy playing Steve to take on the role of a guy who is essentially rescued by a girl episode after episode (although they made it very clear he could handle himself too!). It says something that I literally cannot think of another mainstream story where that happens. (And yes, I'm sure others will be able to come up with dozens. But it's still rare)

 

[Flatfrog]

Don't suddenly switch Link to a female and say "this is for the feminists".

Why not switch Link to a female just for a change? They've done plenty of other things to his character over the various incarnations.

Oh - and incidentally if there's one other character who they could do this with and literally not have to defend the decision at all, it's The Doctor from Doctor Who.

 

[Falseprophet]

as far as "no one has ever taken a male lead and made them female before." I cite Starbuck and Boomer in the RDM version of Battlestar Galactica. both male characters in the original, re-imagined as women in the update.

Yeah, that struck me too. But in partial defense, Link is far more iconic in the history of gaming culture than original BSG was in SF culture--BSG didn't really rise above a niche fanbase until the Sci-Fi reimagining. The equivalent of genderflipping Link would be more like if the Abrams Trek films had genderflipped one of the original Star Trek cast.

 

[Falseprophet]

Either option would be kind of cool, but on balance I think the idea of a female character rescuing a male would be the more radical.

If Renaissance writers could do it 500 years ago [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradamante], I think we could handle it today.

 

[JediMB]

If they did make Link a woman, would they make Zelda a man? I mean, in some of the games, there's a romantic tension between the two. Of course, they could simply omit that for the theoretical installment, or, more interestingly, keep it and have lesbian undertones for the game. Two birds with one stone. Would THAT make the game industry drop its jaw or what?

As far as making Zelda a man goes, I think that would be a little bit more difficult than making Link a woman, since Zelda is basically the reincarnated avatar of the goddess Hylia.

Link, meanwhile, is basically The Hero Hyrule Needs Right Now.

 

[VVThoughtBox]

What's the real reason why people want Link to be a lady? I'm getting the impression that those who want Link to be female just want to act out their fantasies and don't care for diversity in video games. I'm also a bit creeped out by Bob's analysis of Link in the video. I really don't like how he's making assumptions about Link's appearance based on gender stereotypes since it has the unintentional effect of reinforcing the stereotypes that bot men and women work so hard to break away from. Since when has horseback riding and archery been considered feminine?

 

[Rakor]

They should just go all in on the androgenousness in a game and never specify one way or the other. Make it a running gag through the game.

Still waiting for a Sheik game though....

 

[Falterfire]

Oh - and incidentally if there's one other character who they could do this with and literally not have to defend the decision at all, it's The Doctor from Doctor Who.

They've even mentioned the idea in-show before and in an official parody made for Comic Relief a few years before the new series started called The Curse of Fatal Death [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do-wDPoC6GM] they even went ahead and did it. Obvious a parody episode isn't the best precedent, but it does at least show they're aware it's a possibility.

 

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Aren't Wii U sales like crazy up right now? I already have one so, yeah.

Beat X-Box One last month. I think it might do the same in June, but I haven't checked the weekly numbers.

 

[Falterfire]

Since when has horseback riding and archery been considered feminine?

Ignoring the actual discussion on gender politics for a second:

Horseback riding is very much a thing associated with young girls. The stereotypical little girl's wish is to own a pony. Based on my experiences with Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, the Girl Scouts have a much stronger emphasis on Horseback riding in their summer camps. I'm not sure why that is or where it started (And obviously the male Knight In Shining Armor also rides a horse) but the little girl with her pet pony is definitely a thing that exists as a stereotype, and to a greater degree than the little boy with a pony.

Archery also gets associated with women somewhat frequently. If I had to guess, it's because of wanting to keep the female characters away from physical fighting while still actually being part of the fight. Again: I'm not sure where it started, but if you look at the Chronicles of Narnia, the oldest brother (I don't remember names) is given a sword while the oldest sister is given a bow. Hunger Games is probably the biggest driving force behind the stereotype right now, but again: Having the female character holding the bow is a thing which is well entrenched in pop culture.

 

[cynicalsaint1]

You know, while I agree that it would be pretty awesome if they made Link a girl this time around, I seriously doubt its going to happen. Even though I kind of hope it will - Nintendo has always been a bit stuck in their ways - they'll shake things up a little as time goes on, but never too much, and its really hard for me to believe that they would be daring enough to make Link a girl.

But its definitely an interesting idea, and they could do it and fit it into the series canon easily enough.

 

[Ferisar]

I must confess that I breathed a sigh of relief that the appearance of The Game Overthinker and pals at the beginning was just a "tease".

That being said, I agree with Bob that it would be good publicity for Nintendo if they made this Link female. Though I don't know if that would help in "fighting back" at the misogyny in some parts of the gaming community. Think of it this way: if we dismiss the notion that violent games can make people violent, then how can someone think that more "fair representation" of female/gay/trans/ characters would lead to more acceptance of these groups?

One is a knee-jerk reaction/misconception about the nature of violence when used in entertainment, the other is legit reasoning based around social exposure to certain types of reinforcement. Having games portray women in a better light, even without the whole "we'll think better!" bit is a reflection of something actually occurring.