Bob you are right! Vick is a sorry Son of a ***** and that is an insult to sorry sons of bitches!! He is a scumbag pure and simple!
The Big Picture: Maddening
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As has already been pointed out, Vick had already graced the cover of Madden in '04. I think few enough people care about Madden, video games or who Michelle Vick is or what he did to give two shits.
What he did was despicable, yes, but it has nothing to do with the game of football. Refusing to honor his skill doesn't make sense because he is, in fact, very good at tossing a ball around. I don't see a reason to care about that.
The problem is that he's gotten off rather lightly for what he's done. If he doesn't get on Madden 12 it's barely a slap on the wrist. Jailtime is pretty meaningless and we're overcrowded as it is. What I'd really want to see is, as another poster suggested, a boycott of the NFL. That would hurt, that would get the message across.
To be frank, why should he give a damn as long as people still line his wallet with gold? Why should anyone? Sports is business and change happens at the bottom line.
The problem is that he's gotten off rather lightly for what he's done. If he doesn't get on Madden 12 it's barely a slap on the wrist. Jailtime is pretty meaningless and we're overcrowded as it is. What I'd really want to see is, as another poster suggested, a boycott of the NFL. That would hurt, that would get the message across.
To be frank, why should he give a damn as long as people still line his wallet with gold? Why should anyone? Sports is business and change happens at the bottom line.
a fine argument sir, very compelling and i respect the fact that this is in your own opinion, but as you said no one will agree on everything. and for your comment i must disagree, he earned a profit from the suffering of other living beings. i applaud your comment and it makes sense to me but i cant agree.HeartAttackBob said:
As an Atlanta resident (For you internationals that is Atlanta, Georgia in the states, I.E ground zero for Mike Vick fans since he played here for his first 7-8 years and revived the franchise). I definitely have grown tired of pro Vick sycophants who seem to see no problem with what he has done. I also definitely think that it is a bad idea and completely irresponsible to put him on the cover of Madden. However, I don?t think it?s a bad idea because it would be rewarding a convicted dog killer, I think it is a bad idea because if there is one thing worse than a pro Vick sycophant, it is an anti Vick sycophant. And much like this particular case, putting him on the cover will just give Antivicks more reason to spout hysterically how the man can never be forgiven and should have been killed.
I know the torch will be hot for this comment, nevertheless? Im sorry, but THEY ARE JUST DOGS. Morally ambiguous dogs- sure. Dogs without the capacity for evil- yup. Innocent dogs by their very nature- definitely. Worthy of ruining a man and making him undeserving of any type of success, good fortune, and happiness for the rest of his life- No. Vick did not kill any humans, he did not rape or murder any little girls, he did not bilk taxpayers and elderly individuals out of their savings, he participated in a brutal, and barbaric southern past time that existed before his activities and will maintain its existence for the foreseeable future. I could never do what he did, I will never be a real fan again, but Im soooooo tired and really semi disgusted by the seemingly unending slew of people who seem to want nothing but pain and torment for this man for the rest of his life. And let?s be clear and not oversimplify the particulars of Vick?s crimes. He didn?t walk the streets of Atlanta to find wayward dogs to torture and kill for kicks, he ran an underground dog fighting organization. I shudder to think of the type of atmosphere and mind state that leads a person to think that it is ok to get into dogfighting, but I refuse to identify it with this ?psycho serial killer monster? lens that so many people seem hell bent on viewing him with. This ongoing campaign to destroy Vick, a man who lost 3-4 years of his career, 100 million dollars, and spent almost two years in jail, just seems gratuitous and much like that idiot on fox news who literally said ?Im a Christian, and I believe in forgiveness, but Micheal Vick killed dogs, and I think he should have been put to death,? this wreaks of haphazard trolling. I would be less bothered if you were a peta freak and didn?t eat meat or simply thought it was irresponsible and stupid on EAs part to do so,(and please someone explain to me how hunting is so far morally [not legally] from dog fighting) but being a seemingly sound minded analytical individual
Bob I respect your opinion, as well as the many other viewers who will flame me for this. But id have rather heard about how COMICS ARE WEIRD again, Id have rather heard you complain more about Madden (which I am a fan of but I do recognize that it is in many ways a rip off), id have even rather seen another Antithinker episode than hear yet another media figure rail against a convicted felon who has been desperately trying to please everyone and get his life together. EA shame on you for being so short sighted and irresponsible with your marketing? AGAIN! But other than that poor idea Mike Vick deserves the same second chance that many of us have had and will have and he deserves it without droves of people shouting loudly for his downfall from the sidelines.
I know the torch will be hot for this comment, nevertheless? Im sorry, but THEY ARE JUST DOGS. Morally ambiguous dogs- sure. Dogs without the capacity for evil- yup. Innocent dogs by their very nature- definitely. Worthy of ruining a man and making him undeserving of any type of success, good fortune, and happiness for the rest of his life- No. Vick did not kill any humans, he did not rape or murder any little girls, he did not bilk taxpayers and elderly individuals out of their savings, he participated in a brutal, and barbaric southern past time that existed before his activities and will maintain its existence for the foreseeable future. I could never do what he did, I will never be a real fan again, but Im soooooo tired and really semi disgusted by the seemingly unending slew of people who seem to want nothing but pain and torment for this man for the rest of his life. And let?s be clear and not oversimplify the particulars of Vick?s crimes. He didn?t walk the streets of Atlanta to find wayward dogs to torture and kill for kicks, he ran an underground dog fighting organization. I shudder to think of the type of atmosphere and mind state that leads a person to think that it is ok to get into dogfighting, but I refuse to identify it with this ?psycho serial killer monster? lens that so many people seem hell bent on viewing him with. This ongoing campaign to destroy Vick, a man who lost 3-4 years of his career, 100 million dollars, and spent almost two years in jail, just seems gratuitous and much like that idiot on fox news who literally said ?Im a Christian, and I believe in forgiveness, but Micheal Vick killed dogs, and I think he should have been put to death,? this wreaks of haphazard trolling. I would be less bothered if you were a peta freak and didn?t eat meat or simply thought it was irresponsible and stupid on EAs part to do so,(and please someone explain to me how hunting is so far morally [not legally] from dog fighting) but being a seemingly sound minded analytical individual
Bob I respect your opinion, as well as the many other viewers who will flame me for this. But id have rather heard about how COMICS ARE WEIRD again, Id have rather heard you complain more about Madden (which I am a fan of but I do recognize that it is in many ways a rip off), id have even rather seen another Antithinker episode than hear yet another media figure rail against a convicted felon who has been desperately trying to please everyone and get his life together. EA shame on you for being so short sighted and irresponsible with your marketing? AGAIN! But other than that poor idea Mike Vick deserves the same second chance that many of us have had and will have and he deserves it without droves of people shouting loudly for his downfall from the sidelines.
Wait... I just picked this line up on a second viewing.
Bob: "We don't even know if there's going to be an NFL season in 2012..."
Why wouldn't there be? Bob, are you a believer in the 2012 apocalypse, or did something big go down in the NFL that I completely missed?
Bob: "We don't even know if there's going to be an NFL season in 2012..."
Why wouldn't there be? Bob, are you a believer in the 2012 apocalypse, or did something big go down in the NFL that I completely missed?
Really? I don't think that was a very good argument at all. Nature is cruel out of necessity. Said wasps parasitize other creatures to reproduce. Michael Vick didn't have to kill dogs to ensure the next generation of his species. He didn't even have to do that to survive; he was already a Goddamn NFL star, one of the highest-paid men in the country.roostuf said:
There is a big difference between instinctively murdering another living creature in a nightmarish fashion to give your offspring a chance to survive, and what Michael Vick was doing, which was forcing animals to participate in an unnatural bloodsport for fun and profit (and mostly for fun, at that).
Why... why should he get 15 years. I would really like a semi logical reason if anyone can possibly provide one. I wouldnt even mind an honest emotional response but someone explain why a human's life must be destroyed as an even exchange for an animals... a dog no lessOptimusPrime33 said:
To E.A.
"Can you please be tasteful again to me?"
To Bob
"I whole heartingly respect your opinion."
To Everyone else
"It's just a man voicing his opinion, could you try and get over a guys opinion? We all have a lot of em. It just turns out this guy can post videos of his opinion."
But I do respect the few opinions against, we all have our sharp and dull points.
As for my opinion, Dogfighting is certainly wrong, but I do belive in the killing of animals for the survival of me.
For those opinions that are...there. Your here on the internet and your opinion has been placed.
"Can you please be tasteful again to me?"
To Bob
"I whole heartingly respect your opinion."
To Everyone else
"It's just a man voicing his opinion, could you try and get over a guys opinion? We all have a lot of em. It just turns out this guy can post videos of his opinion."
But I do respect the few opinions against, we all have our sharp and dull points.
As for my opinion, Dogfighting is certainly wrong, but I do belive in the killing of animals for the survival of me.
For those opinions that are...there. Your here on the internet and your opinion has been placed.
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
Yes, animal cruelty is bad. I'm a vegan. But is it unforgiveable and inexcuseable? Is animal abuse actually the cardinal sin? It was called an "unspeakable act", for God's sake! Jesus Christ, Bob. How can you possibly justify killing and eating animals when just abusing them is bad? I'm a very quiet vegan. I've never tried to convert anyone. But this is absolute hypocrisy. Animals in a slaughterhouse are treated very, very badly, probably worse than most dogs in fighting rings. And yet someone who is actively trying to redeem himself, who has apologized for what he has done in what appears to be a sincere way, is totally beyond redemption.
This is some incrediable hypocrisy here, dude. Yes, what he did was wrong. Yes, he was a douchebag about it. But NO, IT IS NOT FUCKING UNFORGIVEABLE. HE'S NOT A RAPIST. HE'S NOT A SERIAL MURDERED. HE KILLED HELPLESS, INNOCENT ANIMALS. BUT THIS IS NOT THE WORST THING IN THE UNIVERSE. I'm legitimately angry at this video. When I'm more coherent, I'll probably type up a proper thing here and e-mail it to Bob.
Yes, animal cruelty is bad. I'm a vegan. But is it unforgiveable and inexcuseable? Is animal abuse actually the cardinal sin? It was called an "unspeakable act", for God's sake! Jesus Christ, Bob. How can you possibly justify killing and eating animals when just abusing them is bad? I'm a very quiet vegan. I've never tried to convert anyone. But this is absolute hypocrisy. Animals in a slaughterhouse are treated very, very badly, probably worse than most dogs in fighting rings. And yet someone who is actively trying to redeem himself, who has apologized for what he has done in what appears to be a sincere way, is totally beyond redemption.
This is some incrediable hypocrisy here, dude. Yes, what he did was wrong. Yes, he was a douchebag about it. But NO, IT IS NOT FUCKING UNFORGIVEABLE. HE'S NOT A RAPIST. HE'S NOT A SERIAL MURDERED. HE KILLED HELPLESS, INNOCENT ANIMALS. BUT THIS IS NOT THE WORST THING IN THE UNIVERSE. I'm legitimately angry at this video. When I'm more coherent, I'll probably type up a proper thing here and e-mail it to Bob.
Can I just say that I found this to be one of the best episodes of "The Big Picture" yet?
Bob, PLEASE do more on issues like this that you are passionate about! While I enjoy the "(insert media here) are weird" episodes, if this show is meant to be an avenue for your views on anything you feel like talking about this week, then go for gold!
Much respect for being open and honest about it while still keeping within valid and logical arguments! So few can be so passionate without resorting to rambling nonsense *cough*PETA*cough*
And for the record, not only do I feel he should be denied the Madden cover, this is the kind of thing people should be banned from the game FOR LIFE over. But alas, here in Australia, football players get away with this sort of thing as well. They are busted on drug charges or sexual assault charges, and all that happens is their club drops them and they sign a bigger and better deal with a new club.
The truth is "professional athletes" like this just piss me off. Soldiers should get paid what major sports athletes get, and major athletes should get minimum wage. They do it for the love of the game right? Shouldn't that be enough?
Bob, PLEASE do more on issues like this that you are passionate about! While I enjoy the "(insert media here) are weird" episodes, if this show is meant to be an avenue for your views on anything you feel like talking about this week, then go for gold!
Much respect for being open and honest about it while still keeping within valid and logical arguments! So few can be so passionate without resorting to rambling nonsense *cough*PETA*cough*
And for the record, not only do I feel he should be denied the Madden cover, this is the kind of thing people should be banned from the game FOR LIFE over. But alas, here in Australia, football players get away with this sort of thing as well. They are busted on drug charges or sexual assault charges, and all that happens is their club drops them and they sign a bigger and better deal with a new club.
The truth is "professional athletes" like this just piss me off. Soldiers should get paid what major sports athletes get, and major athletes should get minimum wage. They do it for the love of the game right? Shouldn't that be enough?
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/feature/madden2012cover
that's the link.
Adrian Peterson!
If he doesn't win Aaron Rodgers is more likely to beat Vick.
that's the link.
Adrian Peterson!
If he doesn't win Aaron Rodgers is more likely to beat Vick.
God I hate Vick, I have 4 dogs, I am a Giants fan, what he did was despicable and perverted and it disgusts me. If you hate him too, good for you.
At the same time though, I am a firm believer in second chances not only in that people deserve a chance at forgiveness and redemption, but an opportunity to change themselves. Regardless of your feelings on the legal system and the time Vick served, he DID pay for his crimes, whether or not you personally believe it was enough is a different matter.
Gah you can't imagine the personal struggle is takes for me to say this, but here goes....
We cannot say whether or not a person is truly changed, in truth the only person who ever knows is that person themselves. We only have outside appearances and our individual beliefs of that person to make the assertation of whether or not they are truly changed. Ultimately it comes down to this: Do you believe they have changed? Do they deserve forgiveness?
This is a personal decision, no one can make it for you, nor should you try to make it for someone else. If you want to hate Michael Vick forever you are well within your rights. But it is NOT your or anyone else's place to make that decision for anyone else. Not football fans or EA marketing executives or escapist forum goers.
You can hate Vick forever, but you cannot and should not force your feelings on other people.
At the same time though, I am a firm believer in second chances not only in that people deserve a chance at forgiveness and redemption, but an opportunity to change themselves. Regardless of your feelings on the legal system and the time Vick served, he DID pay for his crimes, whether or not you personally believe it was enough is a different matter.
Gah you can't imagine the personal struggle is takes for me to say this, but here goes....
We cannot say whether or not a person is truly changed, in truth the only person who ever knows is that person themselves. We only have outside appearances and our individual beliefs of that person to make the assertation of whether or not they are truly changed. Ultimately it comes down to this: Do you believe they have changed? Do they deserve forgiveness?
This is a personal decision, no one can make it for you, nor should you try to make it for someone else. If you want to hate Michael Vick forever you are well within your rights. But it is NOT your or anyone else's place to make that decision for anyone else. Not football fans or EA marketing executives or escapist forum goers.
You can hate Vick forever, but you cannot and should not force your feelings on other people.
Heres the thing. Cover stars are good at their job (in the case of football, hitting people and/or handling the ball).MovieBob said:
You can be a dick and still be really good at your job. Vic is good at his job, even if he is a scum bag. This is not the nobel peace prize, it's the Madden cover star. You don't become the Madden cover star by opening an orphanage, finding a cure for cancer or funding a donkey sanctuary. You get it by being damn good at playing football.
On this basis I feel he has as much right to be there as any other nominee. You don't have to like him but it seems a lot of people do.
I've put a huge, huge amount of thought into this, and it's impossible to believe in killing animals for nicer food (yes, nicer i.e brings you pleasure) and make it possible to morally condemn torturing them for food, without taking the PETA stance. It can't be done. It's disgusting, but so is scat porn. That doesn't make it wrong.
okay. Since this is a video game fourm let me just state the opinion that i have on madder, and EA's sports franchise.
I agree with you 100 hundred percent about madden being a roster update. But when you say all of EA's sports franchises are like this i think you missed their NHL one.
Seriously. Especially the last three years.
You pick up madded 2009 and compare it to 2011 and you have the same game pretty much.
However you pick up NHL 2009 and nhl 2011. What you have are two incredibly diffrent experiances. Seriously. ANd now people are thinking that I am just blindly deleuding myself because i like hockey.
And well I do like Hockey I am WAY WAY WAY bigger fan of football.
"The problem with sports games and their development is their is a ceiling of how good your product can be. In a sports game your trying to get as close to simulation as possible."
EA's NHL is Consistently putting out A vastly improved product for the last 5 years.
WHY. NHL 2K. COMPETITION. THE MOST EMPORTANT PART OF THE MARKET WE LIVE IN. Every single Year both 2k and EA are thinking how can we make our hockey game better then theirs and outsell them
With the exclusive lisence on madden EA sees it for what it is. A FUCKING CASH IN.
ONTO VICK
Vick says he's changed.
There is a quote of him that says somthing like " one of the things i regret most is that because of this I can't own dogs and i would really like to own one, one day"
but You have not changed till you are consistently prooving it.
Donate 10s of millions of dollars to Dog pounds and the ending of animal abuse.
Spend the entire off season voulenteering for such an institution.
Tour schools and teach kids how gross and wrong it is(sort of how it's ususally former drug addictes talking about the dangers of drugs.)
(just a handfull of ideas)
If he really cares about dogs this sort of stuff should not be a chore to him and thus he should continuosly do this for the rest of his days.
I agree with you 100 hundred percent about madden being a roster update. But when you say all of EA's sports franchises are like this i think you missed their NHL one.
Seriously. Especially the last three years.
You pick up madded 2009 and compare it to 2011 and you have the same game pretty much.
However you pick up NHL 2009 and nhl 2011. What you have are two incredibly diffrent experiances. Seriously. ANd now people are thinking that I am just blindly deleuding myself because i like hockey.
And well I do like Hockey I am WAY WAY WAY bigger fan of football.
"The problem with sports games and their development is their is a ceiling of how good your product can be. In a sports game your trying to get as close to simulation as possible."
EA's NHL is Consistently putting out A vastly improved product for the last 5 years.
WHY. NHL 2K. COMPETITION. THE MOST EMPORTANT PART OF THE MARKET WE LIVE IN. Every single Year both 2k and EA are thinking how can we make our hockey game better then theirs and outsell them
With the exclusive lisence on madden EA sees it for what it is. A FUCKING CASH IN.
ONTO VICK
Vick says he's changed.
There is a quote of him that says somthing like " one of the things i regret most is that because of this I can't own dogs and i would really like to own one, one day"
but You have not changed till you are consistently prooving it.
Donate 10s of millions of dollars to Dog pounds and the ending of animal abuse.
Spend the entire off season voulenteering for such an institution.
Tour schools and teach kids how gross and wrong it is(sort of how it's ususally former drug addictes talking about the dangers of drugs.)
(just a handfull of ideas)
If he really cares about dogs this sort of stuff should not be a chore to him and thus he should continuosly do this for the rest of his days.
"Murder" is a word reserved to what humans do to humans. Lets's keep it this way, shall we?
Of course, organizing dog fights is totally unacceptable. But if you call the peta guys hypocrites then google some information on meat production. You will be surprised to learn that every animal that lands on your plate had a much more miserable life than fighting dogs and the reason for this is you buying it. You're a hyporcrite just the same.
Of course, organizing dog fights is totally unacceptable. But if you call the peta guys hypocrites then google some information on meat production. You will be surprised to learn that every animal that lands on your plate had a much more miserable life than fighting dogs and the reason for this is you buying it. You're a hyporcrite just the same.
I agree with you Bob, Peta's Hypocrites, Michael Vick is a freaking monster, and, Personally, Vick was killing something that has some more than basic thought [dogs aren't stupid, but they can't create the next robotic Einstein either]
FOR MONEY!! Money, for torturing DOGS, thats a freaking low.
EA, stop making retarded choices with your marketing.
Bob, I'm with you on all you said in that episode.
FOR MONEY!! Money, for torturing DOGS, thats a freaking low.
EA, stop making retarded choices with your marketing.
Bob, I'm with you on all you said in that episode.