The Big Picture: Maddening

[Lancer723]

God I hate Vick, I have 4 dogs, I am a Giants fan, what he did was despicable and perverted and it disgusts me. If you hate him too, good for you.

At the same time though, I am a firm believer in second chances not only in that people deserve a chance at forgiveness and redemption, but an opportunity to change themselves. Regardless of your feelings on the legal system and the time Vick served, he DID pay for his crimes, whether or not you personally believe it was enough is a different matter.

Gah you can't imagine the personal struggle is takes for me to say this, but here goes....

We cannot say whether or not a person is truly changed, in truth the only person who ever knows is that person themselves. We only have outside appearances and our individual beliefs of that person to make the assertation of whether or not they are truly changed. Ultimately it comes down to this: Do you believe they have changed? Do they deserve forgiveness?

This is a personal decision, no one can make it for you, nor should you try to make it for someone else. If you want to hate Michael Vick forever you are well within your rights. But it is NOT your or anyone else's place to make that decision for anyone else. Not football fans or EA marketing executives or escapist forum goers.

You can hate Vick forever, but you cannot and should not force your feelings on other people.

 

[bjj hero]

... and why anyone would want Michael Vick on the cover?

Heres the thing. Cover stars are good at their job (in the case of football, hitting people and/or handling the ball).

You can be a dick and still be really good at your job. Vic is good at his job, even if he is a scum bag. This is not the nobel peace prize, it's the Madden cover star. You don't become the Madden cover star by opening an orphanage, finding a cure for cancer or funding a donkey sanctuary. You get it by being damn good at playing football.

On this basis I feel he has as much right to be there as any other nominee. You don't have to like him but it seems a lot of people do.

 

[Baneat]

I've put a huge, huge amount of thought into this, and it's impossible to believe in killing animals for nicer food (yes, nicer i.e brings you pleasure) and make it possible to morally condemn torturing them for food, without taking the PETA stance. It can't be done. It's disgusting, but so is scat porn. That doesn't make it wrong.

 

[I am Jack's profile]

okay. Since this is a video game fourm let me just state the opinion that i have on madder, and EA's sports franchise.

I agree with you 100 hundred percent about madden being a roster update. But when you say all of EA's sports franchises are like this i think you missed their NHL one.

Seriously. Especially the last three years.

You pick up madded 2009 and compare it to 2011 and you have the same game pretty much.

However you pick up NHL 2009 and nhl 2011. What you have are two incredibly diffrent experiances. Seriously. ANd now people are thinking that I am just blindly deleuding myself because i like hockey.

And well I do like Hockey I am WAY WAY WAY bigger fan of football.

"The problem with sports games and their development is their is a ceiling of how good your product can be. In a sports game your trying to get as close to simulation as possible."

EA's NHL is Consistently putting out A vastly improved product for the last 5 years.

WHY. NHL 2K. COMPETITION. THE MOST EMPORTANT PART OF THE MARKET WE LIVE IN. Every single Year both 2k and EA are thinking how can we make our hockey game better then theirs and outsell them

With the exclusive lisence on madden EA sees it for what it is. A FUCKING CASH IN.

ONTO VICK

Vick says he's changed.

There is a quote of him that says somthing like " one of the things i regret most is that because of this I can't own dogs and i would really like to own one, one day"

but You have not changed till you are consistently prooving it.

Donate 10s of millions of dollars to Dog pounds and the ending of animal abuse.
Spend the entire off season voulenteering for such an institution.
Tour schools and teach kids how gross and wrong it is(sort of how it's ususally former drug addictes talking about the dangers of drugs.)
(just a handfull of ideas)

If he really cares about dogs this sort of stuff should not be a chore to him and thus he should continuosly do this for the rest of his days.

 

[SensibleCrout]

"Murder" is a word reserved to what humans do to humans. Lets's keep it this way, shall we?

Of course, organizing dog fights is totally unacceptable. But if you call the peta guys hypocrites then google some information on meat production. You will be surprised to learn that every animal that lands on your plate had a much more miserable life than fighting dogs and the reason for this is you buying it. You're a hyporcrite just the same.

 

[Aprilgold]

I agree with you Bob, Peta's Hypocrites, Michael Vick is a freaking monster, and, Personally, Vick was killing something that has some more than basic thought [dogs aren't stupid, but they can't create the next robotic Einstein either]
FOR MONEY!! Money, for torturing DOGS, thats a freaking low.
EA, stop making retarded choices with your marketing.
Bob, I'm with you on all you said in that episode.

 

[Baneat]

I would hardly call a bird's nest not a building.

And the cat thing was kind of a joke, so on a serious note:

It's a circle of sticks.

And fair enough on the monkey. But I'll shake his hand in a few thousand years when it evolves enough to speak.

Our first buildings were a circle of sticks. Children make circles of sticks and call them buildings.

And are you implying that the communicative noises animals make isn't talking? If you're saying that, you're a downright moron.

Best monkey ever!

 

[Baneat]

I agree with you Bob, Peta's Hypocrites, Michael Vick is a freaking monster, and, Personally, Vick was killing something that has some more than basic thought [dogs aren't stupid, but they can't create the next robotic Einstein either]
FOR MONEY!! Money, for torturing DOGS, thats a freaking low.
EA, stop making retarded choices with your marketing.
Bob, I'm with you on all you said in that episode.

Money's different from better tasting food in which way (tofu+plants or w/e the fuck vegans eat)?

 

[JochemDude]

100% Agree

 

[Pyode]

[

What if I captured two deer, had them fight, and then cooked them for dinner and otherwise used them as various resources.
Would that count?

See how the line gets really blurry?

This is theoretical of course. I'm no hunter. I can barely catch a damn cat in my apartment when I want to.

You kind of ignored my explanation of why it's wrong.

Just like dogs, you wouldn't be able to just put two deer in a pen and have them fight. You would have to torture and abuse them from birth in order to get them to fight and kill each other.

That is the primary reason why it is wrong (having them fight for entertainment is still horrible, but it's not the worst part of it).

So, no, it's not that blurry of a line.

 

[Eveonline100]

i'm actullay kinda slipt on this issue
on one hand he paid his debt to soctiy, been though a round of bad news etc, so there for he should be allowed to put this behind him on there hands yes i understand he is a jackoff. But the one thing i say is this should a person be allowed to live there life with there transgreation behind? thoughts?

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

He's little more then a trained nitwit capable of "playing around with a ball" and was overpayed for it, despite his luxurious lifestyle he CHOSE to torture and assist in the torture of defenseless animals and in pitting them in deathmatches.

He's lucky he's allowed to walk the street without anyone running him over, that's his "second chance". I know I wouldn't hit the brakes.

 

[icame]

Yet again bob, you are right.

 

[mythil]

I like sports.. No really I do, I am also a total nerd

However, one thing I see about sportsmen and women all over the world is that they will be forgiven anything if they win one for the team, which is terrible. First of all, lets forget that he's being considered for the cover of a game.. He should never have been allowed to play in the first place.. IMO, America is the worst for letting criminals back into the game.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

Second chances are something that should be EARNED not given.

Vick didn't earn a second chance, if you ask me. He was unjustly given one simply because he can toss a ball well.

If anyone deserved a second chance it was those dogs. Luckily a few of them did, but most of them didn't.

 

[Zydrate]

If you're saying that, you're a downright moron.

Now, was that really necessary?

I simply don't see non-human animals as equals. Is this really such an offensive concept?

 

[linkzeldi]

Wait... I just picked this line up on a second viewing.

Bob: "We don't even know if there's going to be an NFL season in 2012..."

Why wouldn't there be? Bob, are you a believer in the 2012 apocalypse, or did something big go down in the NFL that I completely missed?

NFL Lockout man,
The players and managers are having contract disagreements, and threatening to strike. Which would result in there being no 2012 season.

Edit: We should all pool together and vote for Adrian Peterson though, not to say I'm biased or anything.
*Hiding Vikings Jersey Behind Back*

 

[burningdragoon]

Maddening

MovieBob wonders why people keep buying Madden, and why anyone would want Michael Vick on the cover.

Watch Video

I'm with you on this, but I do want to throw in an alternate reasoning:

It's okay to ask us to forgive Vick. It's okay to ask that we believe in redemption, and to open ourselves up to the possibility that we are also capable of all evil things if the world were to just catch us on a bad day. It's okay to point out the fact that he's "done his time" and is trying to get his act together. All of that is okay, and I agree.

However.

Forgiving someone, or believing they have redeemed themselves, does not mean forestalling the logical consequences of those actions. It is not wrong, unforgiving, or uncharitable to vehemently want to deny Vick this spot. He paid his legal debt to society, and that's fine. It means he cannot be punished again, but refusing to honor something is not the same as punishment.

If someone robs me and gunpoint, goes to jail, gets out, and then comes to see me for forgiveness, I might choose to use that opportunity to forgive them. I'd let them know that I didn't like what they did, and I'd stop wishing horrible things to happen to them. I'd let them know I really do hope they go on to make better choices. But forgiving them doesn't mean I have to like them, be "buddies," or ever even speak to them ever again. I certainly don't have to make them best man at my wedding, or keep a picture of them on my desk.

Boom. Winning post right there.

 

[Karthek]

Never fear Bob: sick pieces of shit like Vick get whats coming to them >

 

[Sindre1]

I would hardly call a bird's nest not a building.

It's a circle of sticks.

Dude, I'm pretty damn sure you would not be able to build a nest that would be able to support a grown bird and some eggs.
Windy or not.
Just try it.