The Big Picture: Maddening

[Benjamin Zeledon]

Just so I can be the counterpoint.

A) There are convicted murderer's in the NFL. PEOPLE CONVICTED OF KILLING OTHER PEOPLE WITH NO REMORSE! As well, Mike Tyson...and many others who've raped and killed as athletes...Yeah....Kobe

B) Vick is a douche, but know what...your aiming at a small narrow crap opinion on the issue. Once you've seen the whole damn thing, Vick was really just busted for having it in his house, not exactly doing it. He hung around crappy friends and he paid for it. Know what? His friends also got less time than him. He at least is doing respectable things now with the HUMANE SOCIETY and is working on fixing his errors. See dogfighting is a way of life where these people are from...he's from the poor shitholes of Virginia. This isn't a single issue, its actually a cultural phenomena like cockfighting. If you want to ***** about the crime...actually help out there...and what I mean is help with education out there and helping kids be happy with dogs and so forth...you know because Michael Vick should just be lynched as an example huh?

Though seriously, why make this man a pariah for something he did his time for and happened before. Read Les Mis or look at OJ. The constant pursuit of justice hurts more than helps. So people...just let it die. Sheesh.

Edit: Also, I love animals just in case someone tries that on me. I had a dog for 18 years. I just know the reality of these situations first-hand. It isn't pretty.

 

[bdcjacko]

Go discuss this in the moviebob the maddening discussion in featured content.

 

[Woodsey]

I'm with you, although this probably didn't warrant a new thread.

Further punishment of the guy undermines the entire point and role of the judicial process.

 

[bdcjacko]

Go discuss this in the moviebob the maddening discussion in featured content.

I did but I'm on page like 17 of probably 20 by now, an found this so frustrating wanted to get my opinion out there.

Well then there are 20 pages of people that are willing to discuss your point there.

 

[ace_the_poet]

That was a bit over the top. Just because somebody does something irrefutably wrong, doesn't mean they don't deserve a second chance. I get it though. We probably shouldn't be glorifying the guy on a video game cover. Probably shouldn't.

 

[Trolldor]

He is to be judged on his personal life as all people are. As you are. As the beggar and the politician are.
The outcry is far from political.
You don't have perspective, you have bias.

The man is scum. It is precisely because he is a man that he ought to be brought to task all the more.
You say it's "just a dog" because it lacks the cognitive skills your average healthy human does, which makes exploitation of the animals by this swirling torrent of mediocre all the more reprehensible.

I am tired of celebrity worship. If the guy ran a hospital he would be ought of a job. If the guy ran a charity he would be out of a job. If the guy cured cancer, he would be out of a job.
But because he runs across a field and throws a round thing for a living he's suddenly "worthy of redemption".
My ass.
The guy deserves nothing. If he wants a second chance then he's going to have to earn it. You do not hand it to him because you have a compulsion to treat these utterly ineffectual, over-rated, lumbering, testosterone fuelled pustules as somehow having contributed something of value to society.

 

[thatcanadianguy]

anyone here who says "its just a dog" needs to actually WATCH a dogfight. its sick, its disgusting. and anyone. ANYONE, man woman or child, who both participates, and endorses it, should be thrown in the pit WITH those dogs.

you think this is a knee jerk reaction? just you go look up pictues of these dogs after a fight. its both sick, and sad that people derive pelasure from abuseing these animals this way.

and no, im not a peta fanatic. like moviebib, i hunt, wear leather, eat meat, all that. but hes right. theres a line in teh sand you just DO NOT CROSS. if i had my way, i;d be standing on the other side of that line with a shotgun..

 

[bdcjacko]

Go discuss this in the moviebob the maddening discussion in featured content.

I did but I'm on page like 17 of probably 20 by now, an found this so frustrating wanted to get my opinion out there.

Well then there are 20 pages of people that are willing to discuss your point there.

No cause what everyone does is, read first couple of pages, an then post . . . . . . hence trying to create a topic to get my view out there for discussion. Unfortunately appears I'm only getting the attention of some wise ass.

Sorry if asking you to follow the rules comes off as being a wise ass. I reply to 20+ page threads and can still strike up a conversation with people there.

Also you watch the video wrong. He doesn't say Micheal Vick shouldn't be forgiven. He just says Micheal Vick shouldn't be celebrated and congratulated just because he got out of prison and had a good year of football.

 

[Cheddar]

LOOK EVERYONE! Im not EVEN going to get into the dog killing thing. lets just talk about football. Green Bay won. Aaron Rodgers is fucking amazing. He should be on the cover. There i said it. Fuck the atlanta falcons anyways...

 

[Icaruss]

I was going to write a long drawn out counter arguement but i think my postion can be summed up in two words.Dude.... really?

 

[Lionsfan]

He is to be judged on his personal life as all people are. As you are. As the beggar and the politician are.
The outcry is far from political.
You don't have perspective, you have bias.

The man is scum. It is precisely because he is a man that he ought to be brought to task all the more.
You say it's "just a dog" because it lacks the cognitive skills your average healthy human does, which makes exploitation of the animals by this swirling torrent of mediocre all the more reprehensible.

I am tired of celebrity worship. If the guy ran a hospital he would be ought of a job. If the guy ran a charity he would be out of a job. If the guy cured cancer, he would be out of a job.
But because he runs across a field and throws a round thing for a living he's suddenly "worthy of redemption".
My ass.
The guy deserves nothing. If he wants a second chance then he's going to have to earn it. You do not hand it to him because you have a compulsion to treat these utterly ineffectual, over-rated, lumbering, testosterone fuelled pustules as somehow having contributed something of value to society.

Well all those guys deserve redemption as well but because they don't get exposure they'll unfairly never get it. He already earned his second chance, it's called serving his prison time and following all the rules they laid out for him. What more does it take for him to "earn his second chance?" Does he have to cure cancer or some bullshit like that for him "to be worthy"?

LOOK EVERYONE! Im not EVEN going to get into the dog killing thing. lets just talk about football. Green Bay won. Aaron Rodgers is fucking amazing. He should be on the cover. There i said it. Fuck the atlanta falcons anyways...

I agree with you about the Rodgers thing, not because of the Dog Fighting Issue but because winning the Super Bowl (and having a damn good season) is better than having a great season (but a first round exit). But you do know Vick plays for the Eagles now right?

 

[Trolldor]

He is to be judged on his personal life as all people are. As you are. As the beggar and the politician are.
The outcry is far from political.
You don't have perspective, you have bias.

The man is scum. It is precisely because he is a man that he ought to be brought to task all the more.
You say it's "just a dog" because it lacks the cognitive skills your average healthy human does, which makes exploitation of the animals by this swirling torrent of mediocre all the more reprehensible.

I am tired of celebrity worship. If the guy ran a hospital he would be ought of a job. If the guy ran a charity he would be out of a job. If the guy cured cancer, he would be out of a job.
But because he runs across a field and throws a round thing for a living he's suddenly "worthy of redemption".
My ass.
The guy deserves nothing. If he wants a second chance then he's going to have to earn it. You do not hand it to him because you have a compulsion to treat these utterly ineffectual, over-rated, lumbering, testosterone fuelled pustules as somehow having contributed something of value to society.

Well all those guys deserve redemption as well but because they don't get exposure they'll unfairly never get it. He already earned his second chance, it's called serving his prison time and following all the rules they laid out for him. What more does it take for him to "earn his second chance?" Does he have to cure cancer or some bullshit like that for him "to be worthy"?

Prison isn't redemption. It's punishment.
He's done jack shit to make amends, and he never will. He's a scummy human being who takes pleasure in watching the pain and suffering of living animals.


...in that way he's not so much different to the average football fan.

 

[bdcjacko]

think one of the phrase's he said was "he can't suffer enough" also remember him saying something along the lines of rotting, an he did on on a rant about his career not making him worthy of second chance, so yer I'm pretty sure he did man.

what rules am I breaking just trying to create a separate discussion about my specific view point cause I think his is totally wrong, an if you read my post I have been allot more balanced than moviebob was.

Also sorry for calling you a wise ass if you genuanly feel your trying to up hold some sort of system but just seemed to me that keep coming back, ur just sparring for an argument or attention.

There is a rule against duplicate threads. Technically this is a duplicate thread.

Also, sorry I don't have sympathy for a million that kills dogs for fun.

 

[ChristheTsunami]

I don't really care about the cover of madden, but I see where you're coming from, and a lot of people don't seem fully grasp the concept of what Vick did. He invested in brutalizing animals till they were scared and violent in order to watch them tear each other apart; often killing ones that survived, but were too injured to fight any more. I know that killing a person is an act inherently, in itself, worse then killing an animal, but which could you see yourself doing more easily: shooting a person, or taking and animal and slowly downing it to death?
It isn't just what he did, it's the mindset a person would have to have in order to put the energy and forethought into starving and torturing animals, before forcing them to attack each other, and crudely killing them at the end of it all. There is NO way to accidentally do that and the suffering of the animal is the entire point of the sport and not a byproduct of it.

 

[Preston_r]

Average person commits a felony, goes to jail, gets out - Has a hard time getting a job again due to said felony. Can barely work at McDonalds, probably will never become a manager or be trusted with any amount of authority again.

Celebrity (actor, musician, sports athlete) commits felony, goes to jail, gets out - Gets millions of dollars for acting / playing music / throwing a ball. Lives rest of life in relative luxury.

Saying "You don't get to be on the cover of a video game" or on the Wheaties box, or whatever isn't going to ruin his life. He will still have his paycheck from his football career. It just means he doesn't get the HONOR of being recognized as someone we want to hold up as being GREAT.

Being a felon hasn't ruined his life in the same way it would the average person. So, no. Sorry. Bob is right, you are wrong. Torturing and killing animals for sport is morally reprehensible. As bad as rape or murder? No, of course not. But it is still sick, repugnant, and vile and debased. The man shouldn't be honored by us. He has his honor from us - We still allow him to throw a ball around and make millions of dollars for our entertainment.