The Big Picture: Maddening

[twiceworn]

I agree 100%...

its like this... is the murder of a little child more despicable than the murder of a 20 something yearold?

of course it is...

why?


...


and thats why I think crimes against animals are Majorly under rated (by which I mean not frowned upon enough)



and for those who think that "someone who thinks that this is as evil a crime as murdering a person, yet eats meat and wears fur coats, is a HYPOCRITE!!" I could explain how you are wrong... but I can't be bothered...

just... you are wrong!

OK EXPLAIN AS IT IS THE SAME!!!
it is of no concern to the animals how they die THEY ARE DEAD
it is two faced and clearly a troll video made to get over 500 angry people posting and it worked

 

[NezumiiroKitsune]

No one should be paid that much money and given that much publicity to throw a ball around anyway, and the Madden games are equaled in there utter inanity by FIFA; a small DLC update that should by all rights be a free patch, especially since they keep justifying it by fixing seemingly arbitrary bugs that appear to solely excuse the existence of the next ga me. People still pay £40 on release every year for this shit though, and I can't blame EA for putting it out if people are going to buy it. It probably makes a firm foundation for their bottom line.

As for Vick, well I'd only heard of him online once or twice and deduced he was sick and required jail time and counselling. If he's recieved both and is eager to seek forgiveness and moral absolution, I suppose he should be allowed to throw a ball around, however ridiculous it is that he gets paid so much to do it (ridiculous but again, completely understandable, it's all about money). The fact it looks like he gets to poster boy the game just indicates the vast indifference the majority of the madden buying American public have towards what he's done in contrast to well... what he's doing.

I would have personally made it so he was never allowed to perform on the public stage every again, which means no NFL, no press, no cover art.

 

[Zydrate]

If you're saying that, you're a downright moron.

Now, was that really necessary?

I simply don't see non-human animals as equals. Is this really such an offensive concept?

I suppose it wasn't, but it's true.

I understand what you're saying, but I was just trying to have an interesting argument.

By resorting to direct insults? Bad form, friendo! Bad form!

I guess.

But then again, I do get very butthurt when I hear people who don't mind killing animals or who think they're below us.

By the way, since you're an atheist, you will agree that if it weren't for animals we wouldn't even be around.

And technically, we are animals.

So are we below ourselves?

Naw. We're just on the top of the food chain.

 

[Velocirapture07]

Bob I almost always disagree with you, and this time is no difference. Vick fucked up and did some horrible shit. He served time in prison and did not kill human beings. Also, on the sliding scale of humanity, I'd rate a lot of athletes higher than you. You put together a bunch of random pictures and talk over them with your opinion.

Whoopdy fucking do.

I'm pretty sure there's been other ex-criminals on the front of madden games. They also probably committed crimes against human beings which will always be more damning than anything done to animals. I like animals, but in this case you're completely wrong. I truly feel like he's trying to come back from the mistakes he made. Hell, maybe that is impossible, but at least he's trying.

I'm sure you've never done anything wrong though Bob, nothing you've ever regretted. You're just another freaking mouth piece on the internet no different than any other except for the fact that you get paid to spout to other people your opinion on things. Why don't you pay attention to yourself and your own shortcomings instead of focusing on someone who made animals fight each other. I also like how no one gives a fuck if you have a snake fight or something like that, but when it's fluffy cute shit everyone flips. He wasn't stuffing poodles and lolcats into arenas and torturing them (these were dogs trained and conditioned to be violent ANIMALS)

All in all, you're dead wrong. Animals will never be on the same level as humans, no matter how cuddly wuddly they are (and believe me I do love animals-I own a cat). Vick didn't murder a human child, he didn't violently rape anyone, he didn't assualt a grandmother, he didn't slaughter babies, etc. Get your priorities straight. It's time to move the fuck on and get over it. This series pisses me off to no end as well. How the hell do you actually get paid to spew your opinion and spout it off like fact?!

Judging by your own admission that you usually watch Bob's segments, I can only guess this is meant to be seen as an obvious troll. Really, if you have so much hate for Bob, why watch him? Also, there are a lot of people that get paid to give their opinions; opinion columnist for most newspapers, critics of all kinds, and let's not forget the consultants (financial, business, expert witnesses...) and so on.

Also, if think forcing animals to fight to the death for our amusement is ACCEPTABLE, then you, my good sir, are in need of professional psychiatric help. Do you have any idea how dogfighting works? The dogs are trained to kill by being beaten, starved, and given other animals to kill, usually stolen pets referred to as bait animals. So yes, Vick was "stuffing poodles and lolcats into arenas and torturing them". Are you saying it would be fine if someone took YOUR cat and tossed it between two starved and vicious dogs? I'll give you a hint: Say "no" and you're a hypocrite, say "yes" and you're as sick a fuck as Vick.

Another thing, as I mentioned in an earlier post, torturing and killing animals is a good predictor of violence against humans. It's usually a stepping stone for much worse, often carriers as serial killers (see Jeffrey Dalmer and Denis Raider [BTK]). It's not that it was "just animals", it's that it was a red flag for a psychopath.

And as for the shit about animals not being on the same level as humans, wasn't the same thing said about women, blacks, Jews, Native Americans, and various other groups throughout history? Newsflash, PEOPLE ARE ANIMALS TOO! We're not on a higher level than any other animals. Even if you chose to ignore that, Vick chose to commit horrendous acts upon something that was helpless and dependant on him for its survival, not unlike a human infant. He's a monster that was caught before he could do more damage, and you're just as bad for defending him.

I should have written "Bob, when I do watch your segments I almost always disagree with you" or "when I actually comment on, or get through one of your segments I almost always disagree." Trolling is a waste of time and is not what I'm doing.

Also i never stated that dogfighting was acceptable. In fact it is pretty horrible and indefensible. That's why he went to jail and was punished for his crime. However, I vehemently disagree with your assertion that animals are on the same level as humans. I don't think the jews, blacks, or native americans were dependent on anyone for their survival, mostly because they have large brains and complex emotions that animals lack.

Humans are on a whole different plane, and to act as if they're not is just ridiculous.

I'm glad he was caught and that he's turned his life around. Perhaps he should not be on the cover of the game, perhaps he should. All I'm saying is that I find it interesting that people are so obsessed with this particular crime and criminal enough to ignore the other people in the nfl who have committed crimes against human beings.

In order of increasing importance:
1) Current research have conclusively shown that a large number of non-human animals are capable of complex emotions, reasoning abilities, and even language skills that where considered to be uniquely human. No, we are not on a different plan. We're just on a slightly different evolutionary branch.

2) My point about about blacks, Jews, Native Americans and women was about how humans can see themselves as being superior to other humans and can therefore justify horrific actions against them. The "dependant for survival" point was to show that, at least in infancy, humans are not that different from other animals, especially domesticated ones. Vick was taking advantage of something which he had complete control over.

3) No one is ignoring other NFL individuals who have committed crimes against humans. There are literally enough to make a team with, and I don't think any of them will make the cover of Madden. The thing with Vick isn't just his crime, but what it's a sign of. In addition to animal cruelty, Vick has a history of drug use, violence, and numerous other criminal offences. The fact that he hasn't killed a human yet is surprising. You say he's turned his life around, but I don't think he'll keep on track for much longer. It's not what he's done, it's what he'll do next. And given where this pattern of behaviour can lead to, it doesn't look good. It'll be OJ Simpson all over again. That's why we're focused on this one criminal.

Fair enough. My original post was pretty inflammatory and for that I apologize. Bob just really pisses me off sometimes. I see your point and you represented it well. I'm not saying I totally agree, but your opinion is noted.

 

[orangecharger]

Vick is a sick fucker! Anyone that does that to a dog needs to have his brain ripped out.

I will not debate Vick and his crimes (I agree with Bob), but does anyone remember a stink about Ray Lewis getting the cover of Madden 2005? He was indicted for murder in 2000. He ended up getting probation and the charge reduced to obstruction. However the suit he was wearing was never turned over to police or found -- and two guys ended up dead in a confrontation with him and his entourage. No one was ever successfully charged. I am not sure how that happened. He also had campus police involved in abuse of I think two different girls when he was in college. Truly an upstanding citizen for consideration for the cover Madden '05. So this would not be the first time EA put someone questionable on the cover of the game.

I like to watch Ray and Vick play football and I believe until proven otherwise that they are on the straight and narrow now. I am all for redemption, but I draw the line at glorification.

 

[matt87_50]

I agree 100%...

its like this... is the murder of a little child more despicable than the murder of a 20 something yearold?

of course it is...

why?


...


and thats why I think crimes against animals are Majorly under rated (by which I mean not frowned upon enough)



and for those who think that "someone who thinks that this is as evil a crime as murdering a person, yet eats meat and wears fur coats, is a HYPOCRITE!!" I could explain how you are wrong... but I can't be bothered...

just... you are wrong!

OK EXPLAIN AS IT IS THE SAME!!!
it is of no concern to the animals how they die THEY ARE DEAD
it is two faced and clearly a troll video made to get over 500 angry people posting and it worked

no, it is of no concern to the animals THAT THEY ARE DEAD. because they are dead.

I can assure you that the fear and pain they feel as they are dieing is of GREAT concern to them! thats why they yelp!!

honestly, I see no difference between this, and making homeless bums with no next of kin, fight to death using rusty blades.

do you? if you aren't a homeless bum, there is absolutely no difference... hell, in fact, thats probably better than using animals, atleast the homeless bum has the opportunity to get a job, and not be homeless, thus avoiding that fate... so yeah, using dogs is actually worse!

 

[twiceworn]

I agree 100%...

its like this... is the murder of a little child more despicable than the murder of a 20 something yearold?

of course it is...

why?


...


and thats why I think crimes against animals are Majorly under rated (by which I mean not frowned upon enough)



and for those who think that "someone who thinks that this is as evil a crime as murdering a person, yet eats meat and wears fur coats, is a HYPOCRITE!!" I could explain how you are wrong... but I can't be bothered...

just... you are wrong!

OK EXPLAIN AS IT IS THE SAME!!!
it is of no concern to the animals how they die THEY ARE DEAD
it is two faced and clearly a troll video made to get over 500 angry people posting and it worked

no, it is of no concern to the animals THAT THEY ARE DEAD. because they are dead.

I can assure you that the fear and pain they feel as they are dieing is of GREAT concern to them! thats why they yelp!!

honestly, I see no difference between this, and making homeless bums with no next of kin, fight to death using rusty blades.

do you? if you aren't a homeless bum, there is absolutely no difference... hell, in fact, thats probably better than using animals, atleast the homeless bum has the opportunity to get a job, and not be homeless, thus avoiding that fate... so yeah, using dogs is actually worse!

of corse they feel pain but if you are going to tell me that no animal drug tests do the same i will be forced to conclude that you are also a troll.also if you eat meat and are going to tell me no animal had ever suffered while becoming meat i will have to conclude that this is a veary uninformed TROLL

 

[Spinwhiz]

Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

He got his second chance - he's still playing professional football and getting paid obscene amounts of money for it. He's been given the opportunity to make a living off his athletic prowess. Anything other than that? He was a millionaire who got his jollies torturing and killing innocent animals. He can die in a damn fire.

Saying he could "die in a damn fire" sounds like something we regular plebians could get put on probation/suspension for. Damn shame you guys can abuse the system any way you feel like it.

It's not against the rules. She is not flaming anyone on this site, a group of people or a content creator. This goes the same for the person who would like to "shoot him (Vick) in the head".

Sooo... I get put on probation for a Sodomy joke, still about one guy. But! People here, including your own people, write extremly hateful thing about Vick and that's okay?

Seriously?

PM me with a link to that particular comment and I'll take a look at your post.

 

[Ihniwid]

Dog fighting is an illegal act in liberal states for a reason. He broke this law and he compensated the justice system for his actions.

Although any number of us can judge his crime and his character, the truth is we can only subject his actions to our opinions.

EA can't take him out of this contest. He's a free man in a society that holds freedom to be its driving force.

This is an American parodox. You consider freedom to be crucial. Yet you also place personal morals and beliefs to be just as important. You can do this because you are free do to so.

The problem, you see, is that neither the football player or those who are against his actions are wrong. You are both free peoples.

I hope he does get the Madden cover. It'll provide an example of this quaint and brutal American life.

 

[Orinon]

First off, I'm happy to see a break from all the
COMICS
ARE
WEIRD
like yeah their great but I do like these opinion videos, I didn't even know about Michael Vick, and I do agree heartily about how he is just a guy who's good at throwing a ball around.
because I never really got into sports probably because I suck at them.
that and the phrase
"It's just a dog."
I really hate the humans first attitude, now I eat meat to but we raised them for that, it's so we can survive so it has true purpose
(Though from what I'm hearing there are some amazing alternatives to beef)
argh I'm ranting better stop.
I'm orinon
and thats my comment

 

[Saltyk]

Hmmm, it always surprises me how people care so much about random animals. I wonder where that comes from...

Eh, weak episode

factory farming is morally on the same plane as dogfighting. if you eat meat, you eat it because you like the taste. any nutrients can be had from other sources for less cost.

Are you seriously saying that killing an animal to eat it is the same as torturing it for amusement? Don't you care about animals?

if you don't enjoy eating animals, there are alternatives, and they're more cost effective too.
greed drives profits from death in any case. I don't know why there's the need to draw a distinction.

So that's a no. The only thing that matters is making money.

the only thing that matters is not drawing arbitrary distinctions.
if you care about animals, don't eat meat and don't fight dogs.
to say that michael vick is bad because he made money off animal cruelty and that purdue chicken makes money off of animal cruelty but isn't bad-- makes no sense.

Actually there's more than he just killed a dog. Do you have any idea what it takes to make a dog fight another dog for no reason? Have you ever seen two dogs confront each other? They don't try to kill each other. They growl, snap, and may even bite, but confrontations usually end up with one dog walking away, tail between it's legs, before any blood is actually shed.

To actually make dogs fight requires training. But it's more like torture. Beatings, starving, even getting smaller weak dogs (think puppies or small breeds like a dachshund) to use as "bait" animals and have the "fighting dog" kill them. In this case, Vick had allegedly killed under-performing dogs by slamming them into the ground.

This isn't simply killing an animal to eat or feed others. This was a terrible act. It involved a lack of empathy that bordered on the psychotic.

Oh, and this wasn't about the money either. Vick was a Quarterback for the Atalanta Falcons and one of the most sought after players during his recruitment. He made plenty of money. In fact, I heard that he lost far more money then he made during the dog fights. He did this for "fun". For the enjoyment of it.

Michael Vick tortured and killed animals for sport. Movie Bob owns a hunting and fishing license. There's a difference between eating meat and going out and killing animals for fun. I'm not saying hunting is the worst thing ever, I just don't get out how you can condemn dog-fighting but support hunting. They're both unsavory in my book.

Are you seriously comparing dog fighting to hunting and fishing? When you hunt or fish, you are required to prepare, and wait for extended periods of time. It takes patience, knowledge and skill. Also, both activities are heavily regulated by the government. Hunters are required to have a license and only allowed to hunt during certain times with certain weapons. And if a Game Warden discovers you hunting during the wrong season, or without a license, or any other infraction like having too many kills, be prepared to lose your license and face any number of penalties.

Oh, and hunters and fishermen are known to do more to support wildlife than any other group. They give more money, and their organizations do more to fight to protect wilderness and wildlife than pretty much any other group. Also, every hunter I've ever talked to truly respects and enjoys nature.

By the way. I don't hunt or fish. I find both to be boring and I refuse to wake up early enough to do either activity.

 

[walsfeo]

Also, While I could really care less about Internet movie critics (or critics in general, for that matter) I hold them much higher on the scale than professional athletes. In fact, on a scale from 1 - 10 with 11 being the highest, Professional Athletes would be about 11... in the opposite direction of 0... anyone who makes that much money, and is not saving lives or advancing human society, will not be spared when I start conquering the world.

While I mostly agree I think sports serve a valuable function in society. I don't really care for sports and certainly couldn't be considered a fan, but sports serve as a cultural hook that helps bind communities together. By the same token many kids find inspiration in sports that give them the drive to accomplish and practice to achieve success.

But yeah, I've never understood how adults could find sports so engaging or have such pride in a team they aren't really a part of.

Also, EA should keep making those yearly sports games, because if morons keep buying them each year, that money in their pockets and hopefully loosening them up for new IPs. (optimistic and niave, yes.)

EA almost has to keep producing these each year. The primary market of video gaming sports fans probably aren't in the habit of purchasing via digital download. I'm just shocked they don't offer a different version for each franchise with a special team poster and pennant. I don't know the features of the Madden game, but they should offer a special "Madden Fantasy League" that purchasing the new game automatically gets you entrance into.

 

[Necromancer1991]

Good video, here's my opinion on the matter:

Yes he shouldn't be on the cover, yes what he did to those dogs was wrong, no "serving your time" isn't good enough.

I mean really I understand he's a great athlete, but than again so was OJ (Yes I am ready for the flaming), I mean really why do people seem dismissive of shit like that, 90% of serial killers START WITH ANIMALS, no I'm not saying Vick is going to put on a hockey mask and start killing people, no but the concept of dismissing such behavior is stupid. Again like bob I'm not blindly following Peta, but I do love animals and people who abuse animals are scum and deserve whatever they get and more.

 

[DTWolfwood]

All those other poor deserving footballers that didn't get chosen because this scumbag got chosen instead. a crying shame.

Seriously its a crying fucking shame. EA loves working up a scandal only to later cop out under pressure. (in this case, im more than happy to give them an attaboy for dropping out later)

As much animosity as i have for Activision, at the very least Kotick isn't bashful about what they do and doesn't let monkeys run their PR department.