The Big Picture: Maddening

[Blindswordmaster]

Wasn't Vick on the cover of Madden 04? Isn't there some rule about being on the cover twice?

 

[Smokescreen]

Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

He got his second chance - he's still playing professional football and getting paid obscene amounts of money for it. He's been given the opportunity to make a living off his athletic prowess. Anything other than that? He was a millionaire who got his jollies torturing and killing innocent animals. He can die in a damn fire.

Ah, it's so easy to judge with contempt, ennit? There's nothing in his life at all that could possibly have led him-and by possible extension, you-down such a road that put things that were previously untenable suddenly considerable.

That said; boeingguy, if you believe the justice system is set up to rehabilitate people, you are sadly mistaken about what jail/prisons do to people and what 99% of prisoners have to deal with after serving time. Their lives are wrecked and because there is no place for them in the US culture, they frequently go back to crime.

I'm with you on this, but I do want to throw in an alternate reasoning:

It's okay to ask us to forgive Vick. It's okay to ask that we believe in redemption, and to open ourselves up to the possibility that we are also capable of all evil things if the world were to just catch us on a bad day. It's okay to point out the fact that he's "done his time" and is trying to get his act together. All of that is okay, and I agree.
However.

Forgiving someone, or believing they have redeemed themselves, does not mean forestalling the logical consequences of those actions. It is not wrong, unforgiving, or uncharitable to vehemently want to deny Vick this spot. He paid his legal debt to society, and that's fine. It means he cannot be punished again, but refusing to honor something is not the same as punishment.

If someone robs me and gunpoint, goes to jail, gets out, and then comes to see me for forgiveness, I might choose to use that opportunity to forgive them. I'd let them know that I didn't like what they did, and I'd stop wishing horrible things to happen to them. I'd let them know I really do hope they go on to make better choices. But forgiving them doesn't mean I have to like them, be "buddies," or ever even speak to them ever again. I certainly don't have to make them best man at my wedding, or keep a picture of them on my desk.

Very much so.

Thing is, Bob isn't forgiving him. There is no forgiveness here; this is him telling us that Vick is a piece of shit who we should all scrape off our shoe and throw into the fire.

And it's OK because fuck it, he's just a Football Player. Not like he's a surgeon, physicist, cop or someone useful.

Which means, right there, that he's absolutely willing to judge the value of a life based on your occupation. Not on what you do, not on how you behave, not on anything but your occupation. Because as we all know-cops, surgeons and physicists never did anything wrong. Unless you want to count little things like LA/NY PD corruption, the Tuskagee airmen, or Manhattan Project (admittedly a more questionable event to include here but Oppenheimer was haunted forever by it.)

Fast food employees? Better never fuck up or do any kind of wrong.

Now, I'm not saying that Bob is being a hypocrite, nor am I saying that I hope Vick gets the cover (I don't, I hope he's humiliated from it) or that we all don't have nuances or evil deeds that make us complex people.

I'm just saying; it's one thing to, as Dastardly points out, hope he doesn't get it because Vick behaved in a terrible manner and doesn't seem to be a better person for his punishment, and another to hold a grudge against someone for their/your life and insist that plagues of locusts follow them.

The fear that we all ought to have of evil, is that it is done by one of us. Not them. Us.

That's why we should resist evil and forgive, but it's also why we should remember and account for what was done.

 

[ArmorArmadillo]

So, has anyone considered for a second this is Madden NFL? National Football League? Not Madden National Charity League or National Human Rights League or National Good Persons League?

Personally, I think Vic is perfect for the Madden cover. Why? Because it should demonstrate an important fact: Professional athletes are not social paragons or role models or even decent people, they are guys who play football well. They are jocks.

Yet still, America heaps nothing but endless praise on them from High School to College to the Pros and frankly I think its important to at some point say "The NFL is about playing football, and nothing else. If you support it, you're going to be supporting Vic and guys like him." Find your heroes elsewhere. Not giving Vic an honor because of things unrelated to football is only encouraging our illusion that football is about anything but who can play the game the best.

 

[The Grim Ace]

If the Madden curse manifests itself as a pack of dogs to tear Vick to pieces, then I'm okay with him being on the cover. If that isn't the case, I would hope that malicious bastard is not on the cover, some people view that as an honor and he should be spared every accolade that can be given.

 

[skfd]

Smallest picture so far.

 

[Steve the Pocket]

As for Vick winning, its the internet, I feel they are deliberately voting the choice that will make the game have a bad public image for the sake of laughs. Its not because they support him, they just find it funny that someone with a lot of hate gets rewarded and they get to watch people get angry over it. So yeah EA shouldn't have put him in the the running in the first place, but the internets going to do what it always does. The internet voted that a bridge in hungry be named after Stephen Colbert, a british special forces group use the Team Gurren symbol, and that Justin Beiber be sent to North Korea, all for laughs.

You know what, you're probably right! It would be harder to believe that any given Internet poll isn't being rigged by trolls these days. And even before I read your post, I supported the idea of him winning because, as you say, it might give people a (more) valid reason to not buy this so-called game. And the rest of us a semi-valid reason to demonize anyone who does. Hee hee.

EDIT: And you know what else? The underlying attitude of the people who say sports players should be given a slap on the wrist and sent back to their careers has nothing to do with forgiveness 90% of the time. It's about wanting their favorite player back in the game to entertain them. That's the extent of it. These fans believe that their entertainment is more important than justice. And since one of the reasons for dispensing justice is to provide an example to future would-be criminals, they're saying that being entertained is more important than preventing this shit from happening in the future, too.

Somebody needs to go straighten those people out.

 

[curtisalanmcgee]

Maybe EA will not listen to Bob, but they do listen to customers. Write them a letter, and tell them how you feel about them and their game. If they are afraid that enough people will not buy it if they put him on the cover, they will not put him on the cover. They want to make money, and anything that will stop them from doing that will be avoided entirely.

 

[Danial]

Honestly, I think you guys should put Master Chief on the cover. Apparently he sells a lot of games.

I like this guy, he has good ideas.

 

[ryai458]

Whoa, Bob seems kinda dumb to me now, I wonder how he feels about human on human violence, probably not nearly as strongly.

 

[ThreeKneeNick]

That was really bold, to say stuff like that. He deserves it, but still, i don't think many would stand up like that, and say those things, with a complete lack of sugarcoating and diplomacy in front of an international audience. You score massive points.

 

[JourneyThroughHell]

He can die in a damn fire.

That's pushing it.

OT: I don't know anything about American Football or anything. With that said.

Is Vick a scumbag? Fuck, yes. Does he deserve to get punished more severely than he did? Yeah, I'd say so.

Does that have anything to do with his performance as an athlete? Nope. Is he good at the "athlete" thing? Looks like it. Should he be banned from the running?

Nah.

Now, I do believe that the reason EA put him in the running is cheap controversy-bait. But, shit, he's good at the thing the game's about.

 

[2xDouble]

Eh, weak episode

factory farming is morally on the same plane as dogfighting. if you eat meat, you eat it because you like the taste. any nutrients can be had from other sources for less cost.

Are you seriously saying that killing an animal to eat it is the same as torturing it for amusement? Don't you care about animals?

 

[Macrobstar]

Bob, I have faith in you once again, this was the first interesting video in a while and I could hear you put real emotion into what you said
Good work

 

[Hungry Donner]

I don't follow football but when Vick was re-instated I didn't have a problem with that as I think this is an area where the "did his time" and "turned around" arguments have some weight (Admittedly I wouldn't have had a problem with him being permanently banned either).

However I have a tremendous issue with extending special accolades and other benefits to the man. Letting him play the game professionally is one thing but to put him up on a pedestal like this is not. Here I have to say I agree with Bob 100% and I'm astonished EA even considered putting him on this poll.

 

[WarpGhost]

International viewer, but I read CNN so I remember this affair. Im no animal rights activist, and am of the opinion he served his time, he has a right to rehabilitation. I just don't have to do it for him though, that's for him to do, so colour me voting against him on that ESPN poll.

 

[alistairenix]

As an owner of not just a dog but a pit bull terrier, Bob, I have to thank you for this week's Big Picture. What Michael Vick did should have netted him a lot worse than a couple of years in jail and a return to the NFL. If I'm ever at a con you're at, first round's on me.

Hell, if you ever make it out to western MA and can look a brother up, deal still stands.

 

[Steefness]

Bob, you nailed this one right on the mark. You can always seem to tell how much Bob feels about the subject he's discussing by the tone of his voice when he says his final lines. I feel as passionately about this issue, the man truly is a real monster.

 

[brazuca]

FIFA keeps putting Wayne Rooney on the cover. Cheating on your wife with prostitutes isn't great, but yeah, least he hasn't killed any dogs.

Would be pretty embarrassing for EA Sports to put Michael Vick on the cover of Madden. I mean this guy is supposed to represent your national sport?

My point exactly. Playing devil's advocate (good movie), isn't the online voters choosing it? It was not EA who did that. Brock Lesnar gave a midle finger to every UFC fan when he defeated Frank Mirr in UFC 100. The biggest UFC of that time (the biggest one in terms of sale was the last UFC Silva vs Belfort).
My point is people don't overthink or even think to much about the world that surround them. Pretty shameful with you ask me.

 

[gphjr14]

Seriously, guys? NOBODY believes in second chances? I thought that the justice system was designed to rehabilitate people, and Vick seems to be rehabilitated (unlike countless others who have not changed their ways).

Nah not in America. I recall all the rage over a Marine throwing a puppy off a cliff in the middle east, despite the previous years of kids and other innocents getting blown to smithereens by the US. We have schools here in the US south named after Confederate soldiers my favorite being those named after Nathan Bedford Forrest (founding member of the KKK) and everyone is OK with it. The US has fucked up values. Yes Vick fucked up and is a horrible person for killing dogs and making them fight for sport. Laura Bush (George Bush's wife) and Ted Kennedy are both responsible for vehicular deaths but no one talks about that. Its in the past let it go if Vick is at the top of his game then he's earned his place on the cover. If he was responsible for a child sex ring or something that'd be one thing but seriously people get over it already. Its fucked up by in the long in the "Big Picture" they were dogs not just dogs, but dogs and considering he served his time for it all you whiner and complainers need to cry a river build a bridge and get over it.

All those things you mention were accidental. Except for naming stuff after dead soldiers. If the First Lady decided to run some over then that would be a massive deal, whereas if Michael Vick accidentally run over a dog than it would be no big deal. He served his time so he should be allowed to play football again, but he shouldn't be held up as some kind of role model. Anyway, if EA had any balls they'd put OJ Simpson on the front, that would surely give them the controversy they so desperately crave.

Laura Bush ran a stop sign and Ted Kennedy was driving under the influence there wasn't the intent but negligence on their part. Regardless its up to parents to chose who their kids look up to. He's an athlete, pretty much all athletes are overpaid, but who's fault is that? If you could get paid millions just to stay in shape and hit/catch/kick a ball well and you could do that you'd be an idiot not to jump on it. He's being nominated for the cover not on character, or his contributions to the community, just to play football, if thats the criteria to be on the cover then his name deserves to be on the ballot. If you don't like it don't buy the game.